@anne_boleyn: But there will always be trade-offs. I certainly wouldn't trade my freedom for much but every single person in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is housed, fed, and has excellent health care if they want it. Certainly can't say the same about the US.
It seems women are banned from driving cars in MOST of Saudia Arabia but not all. Rural areas are exempt according to the CNN snippet. Shows you what an ass Saudi Law is.
Interestingly, Qatar, just over the border from Saudi, is also a Wahabist state, but I just learned this week that Qatari women can drive, and generally, the rules are much more relaxed than in Saudi. For instance, though the women wear hijab, it's a much looser hijab, and many show some hair and style it to sort of suit what they're wearing. I have no idea why one state developed one way, and the other differently, but there it is.
@ellaesther: I really wish I were more educated in the history of the region. Partly out of a desire to speak more eloquently on the subject when these things come up, but mostly because I feel like maybe maybe it would help me make sense out of this shit if I knew more about its development.
@arodriguez.romero: Oh yeah. I mean it's pretty universal that if you prevent people from having a forum to question the way things are, and the freedom to organize such a forum, it's a lot easier to maintain your power.
@kelsium: Meh, it depends. Saudi Arabia is a total anomaly in the region. Learning about it's beginnings probably wouldn't even help, it would just piss you off more. It basically just boils down to the practice of the most extreme form of Islam and a royal family that is full of egomaniacs with WAY too much cash on their hands.
@ellaesther: We had a young student from Qatar last summer in the lab. She had an awesome fashion sense, and her hijabs were incredibly cute. She came to the States with a male companion. However the companion was also a young med student and he was a cool guy.
Also, her classmates back in Doha were from all over the place, with a large Indian student population, and they could go around without a headscarf. I wonder if Qatar's population more diverse than the KSA population.
I can't think of one truly excellent, non-geeky general history of the region, but here's a short list of really good books, all of which are enjoyable to read (if you like that sort of thing), will give you a LOT of really good information (a lot of which you're not likely to see anywhere else), and several of which have awesome titles!
1. Heavy Metal Islam, Mark LeVine - LeVine is a professor and musician and he spent five years seeking out the metal heads (and other underground musicians) from Morocco to Pakistan, and he really manages to turn expectations on their heads while giving a lot of good background information, as well.
2.Muhajababes, Allegra Stratton - an exploration, by a young British woman who essentially just up and decided to do it, of religiousity in the region, particularly as regards newly religious women. "Muhajababes" is a term she coined to mean women who wear hijab, but also work at being babes.
3. City of Oranges, Adam Le Bor - a really human discussion of the creation and continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through the lens of the experiences of the city of Jaffa.
4. The Media Relations Department of Hizbollah Wishes You A Happy Birthday, Meil MacFarquhar - this one won't be out until May, I think, but it's really really good. The subtitle is "Unexpected Encounters in the Changing Middle East" and that's a really good description. The author is a long time foreign correspondent who happened to also be born and raised in an expat community in Libya.
5. A World of Trouble , Patrick Tyler - subtitle: "The White House and the Middle East -- from the Cold War to the War on Terror." This is the wonkiest one, a really, really good discussion of 5 decades of foreign policy, which more often than not failed because of the human foibles and cultural expectations of a succession of Administrations.
@arodriguez.romero: Nope. Qatar is ruled by an Emir (roughly translated as a Prince) from the al-Thani family -- though if you had asked me last week, I wouldn't have known their name.
@Brigit: I'm totally guessing here, but I think that has something to do with it. Saudi is fiercely insular, and though they have millions of pilgrims coming on hajj every year, they seem to be very good at controlling and shaping what those people do and where they do it.
Qatar on the other hand (again, I learned ALL this just this week) is only 1/5 or so Qatari. Everyone else is from elsewhere, and while the biggest group is from other Arab nations, that still provides an influx of really broadly varying cultures.
@BeccaSaurus Rex: Ok, how big a geek am I? I don't even recognize the reference. Which means you get out more than me, and thus, I am jealous.
@kelsium: Tomato, tomahto -- you can call me whatever you want, darling!
@Kolme: I agree, and yet there's really only so much we can ask of people. It takes a lot of time and money, and very few people have enough of both at any given time. Books are a good substitute in a pinch! That and, of course, getting to know people over on this side of the ocean, if one has the chance.
What's hilarious is the reasoning behind restricting women's movement. It's because they fear the men AROUND the women will not control themselves and just set to raping and being horrible.
@maggeimerc: Well, actually the women didn't get to vote in the first municipal elections (2005, I think), though I think they were told they would be able to in 2009 (though I don't know if those elections are moving ahead). I don't know if this mitigates anything, but no one in Saudi can vote above the municipal level, and 2005 was the first time that happened.
@my cousin is an ape: The next time some asshole says "Women Drivers, No Survivors" to me I'm gonna have to get in the car and head straight to the liquor store.
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b) I'm a much better driver than my boyfriend.
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Having said that, the oppression of women (and people generally) through religion, ALL of them: that part is crystal clear.
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Also, her classmates back in Doha were from all over the place, with a large Indian student population, and they could go around without a headscarf. I wonder if Qatar's population more diverse than the KSA population.
03/06/09
I can't think of one truly excellent, non-geeky general history of the region, but here's a short list of really good books, all of which are enjoyable to read (if you like that sort of thing), will give you a LOT of really good information (a lot of which you're not likely to see anywhere else), and several of which have awesome titles!
1. Heavy Metal Islam, Mark LeVine - LeVine is a professor and musician and he spent five years seeking out the metal heads (and other underground musicians) from Morocco to Pakistan, and he really manages to turn expectations on their heads while giving a lot of good background information, as well.
2.Muhajababes, Allegra Stratton - an exploration, by a young British woman who essentially just up and decided to do it, of religiousity in the region, particularly as regards newly religious women. "Muhajababes" is a term she coined to mean women who wear hijab, but also work at being babes.
3. City of Oranges, Adam Le Bor - a really human discussion of the creation and continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through the lens of the experiences of the city of Jaffa.
4. The Media Relations Department of Hizbollah Wishes You A Happy Birthday, Meil MacFarquhar - this one won't be out until May, I think, but it's really really good. The subtitle is "Unexpected Encounters in the Changing Middle East" and that's a really good description. The author is a long time foreign correspondent who happened to also be born and raised in an expat community in Libya.
5. A World of Trouble , Patrick Tyler - subtitle: "The White House and the Middle East -- from the Cold War to the War on Terror." This is the wonkiest one, a really, really good discussion of 5 decades of foreign policy, which more often than not failed because of the human foibles and cultural expectations of a succession of Administrations.
Whew! See how big a geek I am?
03/06/09
Thanks so much! I'm copying and pasting this to email it to myself, and I will definitely be hunting some of these down!
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@Brigit: I'm totally guessing here, but I think that has something to do with it. Saudi is fiercely insular, and though they have millions of pilgrims coming on hajj every year, they seem to be very good at controlling and shaping what those people do and where they do it.
Qatar on the other hand (again, I learned ALL this just this week) is only 1/5 or so Qatari. Everyone else is from elsewhere, and while the biggest group is from other Arab nations, that still provides an influx of really broadly varying cultures.
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/sorrrrrrryyyyyy
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@kelsium: Tomato, tomahto -- you can call me whatever you want, darling!
@Kolme: I agree, and yet there's really only so much we can ask of people. It takes a lot of time and money, and very few people have enough of both at any given time. Books are a good substitute in a pinch! That and, of course, getting to know people over on this side of the ocean, if one has the chance.
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I'm guessing if they can't drive, they also can't vote to overturn the ban?
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And only in a room separate from the men.
What's hilarious is the reasoning behind restricting women's movement. It's because they fear the men AROUND the women will not control themselves and just set to raping and being horrible.
Misogynistic AND misanthropic.
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