@lavenderstain: they are being beaten, yes, but so far, no slaughtering that I've heard of. And I'm not a national of either Iran or the U.S. but I agree that this is a domestic issue and it's not Obama's job to intervene here.
Im a national of Iran, and Obama's speech to the Iranian people on the Iranian New Years Day (which he was praised for) promised to look out for the rights of Iranian people and work to promote human rights.
@lavenderstain: It's only been a few hours, though - and with the riots going on right now, it would be incredibly possible that an anti-American rally would spring up opposite the Moussavi supporters, which wouldn't help the situation at all. In fact, it would strengthen Ahmedinejad's supporters, and his position as the head of state. It's not Obama's right to step in right now.
Is it wrong that I'm kind of upset that riot police are succeeding in suppressing the crowds? Part of me really just wants to see a coups. This is so very very wrong.
@DixieCaverns: There will be an Iranian revolution in my lifetime, and I think it will be led by the people in the streets today and those sneaking pictures and news out of Iran. I don't know why the theocracy bothers with the fake democracy-- I don't know anyone who thinks it's an actual democracy-- the world knows it's a facade.
I am really angry that the cable channels are barely talking about this right now. CNN is doing a report on Tetris. Really gripping and important, guys.
@Dodgergirl: Come one, you don't expect them to devote too much attention to that stuff, do ya? I mean, it's another COUNTRY for god's sakes. Why would we want to see that on the teevee? We'd rather talk about PalinPrejean.
@dgibber: That's exactly how it is. Iran is an 'other.' Part of that blackhole of nations called Afganiraqarabiastan. People seem to think that those nations are just a bunch of poor people and terrorists that aren't interesting unless they're attacking us. So why should Americans care about them?
So election-schmelection, can someone tell me how Sarah Palin keeps her hair so perfect even when she's mad at Dave Letterman?
@Mafalda para Presidente: I tried BBC first, but they were running a business program. MSNBC was running "Invisible People" and CNN International was running "African Voices." None of them, I guess, felt the current situation deserved breaking news coverage. CNN had Newsroom on, so I stupidly believed I would be able to see some News. Alas, that was a dumb expectation.
@Dodgergirl: @♥Anti-Social Socialite♥: Yes, thanks for the links. I'm sad, but not shocked, when the goings-on in other countries where brown people live doesn't get covered, but this man's face has been in our news enough that I really expected this to be treated like a big deal. Everyone saying blogging isn't real journalism can suck it right now, because I'm glued to a damn laptop.
@Dodgergirl: It's cool guys! CNN just did five minutes on it! Of course, roughly a minute and a half was them talking about what people are saying about this on FACEBOOK and how COOL IT IS that we can all have, like, a discussion about news on facebook.
66 per cent versus 33 per cent? Methinks this victory might be easier to swallow for people in Iran if the percentages weren't so ridiculously different. I mean, if the polls had been showing anything like this number, perhaps so many people wouldn't be crying shenanigans?
i just saw christiane amanpour's report on cnn a few minutes ago and young people all over iran are POURING into the streets in green (mousavi's campaign color) shouting "no more dictatorship" and "democracy now".... they're refusing to recognize ahmadinejad's victory and are declaring it illegitimate.
@♥Anti-Social Socialite♥: Hilary Clinton and the Canadian equivalent of the secretary of state are giving a press conference right now - they're troubled about voting irregularities, voter intimidation, and the possibility of election fraud. They're saying they have intelligence that indicates another Ahmadinejad term will have been illegitimately won!
the tides of change are upon Iran!
other countries are preparing statements as well...
@♥Anti-Social Socialite♥: and from twitter: facebook, myspace, social networking and opposition sites have been blocked, cell phone use is down - iranian people are getting the message out via twitter.
@♥Anti-Social Socialite♥: I screenshot this comment on my Tumblr, I hope you don't mind. It just seemed the most expedient way to pass on this information.
@bibomaco: Hm, I would be really interested to hear what ellaesther thinks of all this, since I know that she is very well read about the embeded cultural differences in the Middle East and our failure to predict or understand them. Thanks for the link! I don't feel terribly qualified to offer an opinion, but it's good to read.
and this video from cnn about young people and their fearless support of Mousavi and use of technology to promote his platform - and security forces attempting to stifle their movement:
A quick question - I thought that the president was largely a figurehead and that the real leader of Iran (the guy who actually decides to, say, pursue nuclear weapons or not, who would decide the level of involvement in Iraqi politics or not, etc) is Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Does anyone know if that's right? Or does the president carry real power (outside of being the diplomatic figurehead)?
This is not at all to undermine the serious worries about the integrity of the vote and the results that have been declared. I just want to get clear in my own head what the actual ramifications of the vote are.
@laetitiae: I think you are right. The president does have power but many of the important decisions are made by the ayatollah and the clerics. it's a theocracy. which is why there were reports saying even if moussavi won, iran wouldn't become the picture of democracy and human rights overnight. but it'd be a start to changing things.
Does anyone know if there were international election monitors present? IFES or any of the others? Has this been called a free and fair election by independent observers?
I had the opportunity to hear an Iran expert speak the other day, and he said that the revolutionary guard and cleric types who are actually running the place (the only elections in Iran are for positions that don't have real power, BTW) fear more than anything else that there will be some kind of velvet revolution in Iran. That the people will finally get sick of the Islamic republic, of the restrictions placed on them, of the lack of freedom, of the isolation, and of all the other side effects of your country being run by a bunch of fundamentalist whack-a-loons.
I am interested to see what would happen if the people actually took to the streets en masse. Something similar happened in Serbia 10 years or so ago (rigged election against popular opposition) and that's what ultimately got Milosevic tossed out on his ass.
The difference between Iran and a place like Serbia, though, is that, whereas Milosevic was gone, and then Serbian foreign and domestic policy did a 180, in Iran, even if Ahmedinazhad has to step down, the same people are essentially running the country. Certainly, there are important nuanced differences between the candidates, and who ends up president definitely affects the Iranian people's daily lives, but major policy decisions are made by the ayatollahs, not the elected officials. So there's that.
@That_little_attention_whore: I would love it if something like Otpur sprung up in Iran right now. Obviously, the photos that are displayed here in the US are selectively representational of voters, but I saw A LOT of young people standing in line yesterday. I hope they're angry, and I hope they'll organize.
I wonder if this is to them (and the rest of the world) what Bush was to us.
Meh. I'd like to believe this is not true, and that Moussavi won, and that they'll prove as much AND put him into power, but I don't really see any of that happening.
Anyone else getting flashbacks to the 2000 Election? Something tells me this guy's (I refuse to say his name, we'll just call him YOU KNOW WHO) re-election is going to be upheld and we will in fact be struggling with this nutter.
I just hope Iran has a two term limit, PLEASE! Does anyone know how many terms a president can serve in Iran?
@Nun Shall Pass: I'm not sure it particularly matters if there is a term limit since the religious leaders have total authority and veto power over the president anyway.
The head religious leader is, of course, chosen by a group of clerics. Democracy can only be used very loosely to describe this type of political situation.
@Nun Shall Pass: The 2000 election traumatized me. I refused to vote in 2004 because I was convinced that it was futile and my vote would be uncounted along with many others. I hope that this doesn't happen in Iran, where they're blowing our turnout out of the water.
(BTW, I did get over my feeling of betrayal in time to vote for Obama.)
06/13/09
Check out the Huffington Post on this..
[www.huffingtonpost.com]
06/13/09
I think this that someone posted in the last post really shows that: [andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com]
06/13/09
Is no where to be found.
Where is the support he promised the Iranian people, now that they are being slaughtered in the streets?
06/13/09
06/13/09
They are being taken away to be slaughtered.
Im a national of Iran, and Obama's speech to the Iranian people on the Iranian New Years Day (which he was praised for) promised to look out for the rights of Iranian people and work to promote human rights.
so far,
nothing.
06/13/09
06/13/09
[shooresh1917.blogspot.com]
[tehranbureau.com]
and I've been aggregating updates on my personal blog as well.
I'm praying for a legitimate government in Iran. It's clear the nation's people want change.
06/13/09
06/13/09
Flickr account from inside Iran:
[www.flickr.com]
my personal blog w/ statements from Hilary Clinton, Press Secretary Gibbs, Ahmadinejad, Canada, and video:
[promomami.blogspot.com]
06/13/09
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/snark
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06/13/09
So election-schmelection, can someone tell me how Sarah Palin keeps her hair so perfect even when she's mad at Dave Letterman?
06/13/09
06/13/09
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06/13/09
Following Desert Storm, CNN became just another network, albeit 24x as redundant.
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[www.time.com]
06/13/09
[www.cnn.com]
The people of Iran aren't accepting this and I'm glad. Mousavi's election could really change Iran internally and their relationship with the world.
06/13/09
06/13/09
the tides of change are upon Iran!
other countries are preparing statements as well...
06/13/09
this is crazy.
06/13/09
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[promomami.blogspot.com]
06/13/09
Any thoughts on this article?
06/13/09
06/13/09
Here's a flickr account of real time pictures from the protests:
[www.flickr.com]
and this video from cnn about young people and their fearless support of Mousavi and use of technology to promote his platform - and security forces attempting to stifle their movement:
[www.cnn.com]
06/13/09
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This is not at all to undermine the serious worries about the integrity of the vote and the results that have been declared. I just want to get clear in my own head what the actual ramifications of the vote are.
06/13/09
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Because if not, I call BULLSHIT.
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06/13/09
I am interested to see what would happen if the people actually took to the streets en masse. Something similar happened in Serbia 10 years or so ago (rigged election against popular opposition) and that's what ultimately got Milosevic tossed out on his ass.
The difference between Iran and a place like Serbia, though, is that, whereas Milosevic was gone, and then Serbian foreign and domestic policy did a 180, in Iran, even if Ahmedinazhad has to step down, the same people are essentially running the country. Certainly, there are important nuanced differences between the candidates, and who ends up president definitely affects the Iranian people's daily lives, but major policy decisions are made by the ayatollahs, not the elected officials. So there's that.
06/13/09
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Also, I'm a moron and misspelled "Otpor" before.
06/13/09
Meh. I'd like to believe this is not true, and that Moussavi won, and that they'll prove as much AND put him into power, but I don't really see any of that happening.
06/13/09
I'm disappointed - it would have been nice for Iran to move forwards and away from his hard-line policies.
06/13/09
I just hope Iran has a two term limit, PLEASE! Does anyone know how many terms a president can serve in Iran?
06/13/09
The head religious leader is, of course, chosen by a group of clerics. Democracy can only be used very loosely to describe this type of political situation.
06/13/09
06/13/09
(BTW, I did get over my feeling of betrayal in time to vote for Obama.)