Tell your stupid assistant superintendent that he's 15 years behind the times. I took my girlfriend to prom in 1994. The seas did not boil, the earth did not quake, and society did not instantly crumble. A couple of guys came out of the closet a year later, but I'm pretty sure that would have happened anyway.
Don't back down. Prom is silly, overrated, and damn important in this society.
That condom story already had me cringing, but when I got to the part that they were packaged by shirtless men without being sterilized, just....ewww!
I'm guessing the men where shirtless due to it being hot (likely terrible conditions to work in), so I'm picturing them dripping sweat onto the condoms as they are being packaged. Yuck... #condoms
@formergr: I actually don't think regular condoms are sterilized. Legal ones I mean. There's no reason to sterilize them because what they go on and in aren't sterile areas. #condoms
@Tart of Darkness: Here's a little thing on how condoms are made. Everyone making them are wearing protective gear and it appears to be a clean zone that the condoms are being made in. Much different from condoms made by sweaty men without any face masks (presumably) and with probably limited hygienic options. Also, there's no use of veggie oil, but instead safer, more long-lasting lubricants.
@Dancingfrog: I wasn't implying that they are not properly made under clean conditions as regulated for the kind of medical device that they are, but they are not sterilized. They are made under "clean" conditions, not sterile ones. #condoms
@Tart of Darkness: Oh, I didn't mean to imply that you said anything. I just wanted to post that link because it's interesting, and your post was the next one up to reply to. #condoms
@Dancingfrog: And I wanted to say I did enjoy your link. When I rewrote my post because my first one was clumsy (er than what I posted) I left that out. People should know how their protection is made. #condoms
From the article: "But the family remains in need of money for everything from medical bills to rent to food. Big-hearted readers can send checks to the Jaycee Lee Dugard Trust, c/o Viewtech, PO Box 596, Atwood, CA 92811." #condoms
I don't understand how all these prom debacles happen. At my high school, nobody knew who was taking whom to prom until we got there. None of the teachers or administrators asked, we didn't need to tell anyone. And occasionally people went alone, or groups of friends went. I took a girl to my prom (I think she was straight, we didn't ever date or anything even though she was super hot and cool) and my BFF was our other date. Nobody really knew until we got there. Nobody cared, but even if they had we would already have been there, it would have been too late to ban us. #condoms
@Cimorene: Where I went, if you were taking someone from outside the school, you had to get approval-- but i think that was basically to make sure no one older than 21 came. #condoms
@Cimorene: Same at my school. I decided to go to my senior prom last minute because my friend broke up with her boyfriend and needed a date. We didn't alert school officials or anything. What does this principal think is going to happen if they let that girl bring her girlfriend? That everyone is going to start having gay sex on the dance floor? #condoms
@Cimorene: We only had to give the name of people if they didn't go the school. But I can't imagine my school saying no to a female bringing another female. #condoms
@Cimorene: Exactly. I went one year with a girlfriend so we could save on tickets (two tickets together were cheaper than buying two separately) and it didn't matter and no one cared.
@Cimorene: There was a well known no-same-sex dates at my school (1990s) so one gay couple needed to pair up with an an opposite gay couple, switch partners to buy tix and get in the door,and then switch partners later. Dancing? Well, the girls could dance together but the guys had to keep their distance if they wanted to make it home in one piece.
They were young, but they weren't stupid. They knew what would get them harassed by administrators and students if they pulled it at a school sponsored event. Most gay kids have already been harassed by faculty in school. Of course you ask first, before you buy the dress and shoes and rent the limo. #condoms
@Cimorene: I consider myself lucky. Somehow my high school girlfriend was able to bring me, and I had already left the school and was no longer a student. And it was an all girls Catholic School, in Kentucky, no less. None of the faculty or deans said a thing. And it was obvious I wasn't there as her friend and a former student. #condoms
@Cimorene: We had to give our names and our date's names when we purchased tickets at my prom. The prom committee then wrote all of our names ("Terry and Carrie!") on a giant piece of butcher paper in sparkly glitter ink and hung it up in the hall, so that everyone knew who was going with whom, just in case you weren't paying attention to the gossip.
Which made the top of the list ("la.donna.pietra and Lisa!") particularly interesting, in 1994. #condoms
@BytheSea: My school knew damn well that I would call in GLAAD, PFLAG, Amnesty International, Melissa Etheridge, and anyone else I could think of. They didn't even bother giving me shit.
I did get my tires slashed, though. I'm pretty sure that was by a fellow prom-goer. #condoms
Good. What a pity that his victim was still defending him in court. To so thoroughly indoctrinate young girls into such a damaging system deserves more than 10 years, if you ask me. #flds
Each time a member of the FLDS is brought to trial on criminal charges against children or women, it is a moment to define history and begin to save thousands who are oppressed under a belief system that violates the rights of those women and children, and our Constitution itself.
The men in positions of power (there are no women who hold the priesthood) bare more than religious swords over their followers heads. They control the economic, emotional, and social power from birth until death. This is a system of abuse from start to finish.
Jessop is part of that system and indeed, a family, of patriarchs that practice extreme control over others, and will not hesitate to inflict violence and death for subversion (blood atonement). Whether or not he is guilty of this particular charge or set of charges, the pattern is clear, and traceable for about 100 years, with escalation in the past 30 or so. I hope he, and the others, are convicted and that it brings a spotlight bright as the sun upon the 'Yearning for Zion' compound and other FLDS strongholds.
I wish I wasn't so angry about this. I've lived my life in the two states most accepting of FLDS practices, and I'm infuriated that these state governments do nothing but turn a blind eye to what is happening. I understand that they go after charges they think they can win, but it still really gets me riled up. Clearly I'll never sit on a jury in one of these cases. #fdls
in this country, we have a constitutional right to a trial by our peers. while i am in no way defending the practice of child abuse and child marriage as a religious practice and hope this guy goes to jail for a long long long long time, the fact is that he still deserves a right to a trial by his peers. as wrong as it may seem to those of us outside of his world, his true peers include those who belong to his religious community and those who interact with and have a greater understanding of the complexities of the case than someone in NH (or even elsewhere in TX) ever could. the only time when moving a case is allowed, as far as i know, is when the jury is likely to be biased against the defendant, who after all is innocent until proven guilty.
that being said, i hope these guys get whats coming to them, because they disgust me. #fdls
@ellesbelles: A jury of peers has never been interpreted to mean the jury needs to share the same religious beliefs or come from the same culture. I have twice sat on a jury and I doubt either defendant would have called me or most of the jurors peers. But we understood the complexities of the case. Even when I disagreed with my fellow jurors, I appreciated that they were being impartial and trying to apply the law as the judge directed us.
Perhaps we are not providing what our founders expected in the constitution, but considering they had no problem trying women and blacks in front of juries made completely of white men, I doubt they would complain. #fdls
@ellesbelles: As opposed to a jury that shares their belief in marrying off girl children to old men? They won't get what is coming to them in that situation - and THAT is the point. #fdls
@ellesbelles: Your peers are people drawn from the area, not people who believe the same things that you do. You don't seem to understand the right that you're claiming is being violated. #fdls
I'm always surprised by the weirdness that FLDS engenders -- reading the article, the specific charge involves a 16-year-old who was in labor for DAYS but they wouldn't take her to the hospital for fear of drawing attention to their marriage practices. Jesus Christ on a cracker. #fdls
The moralist in me is totally behind this. The anthropologist in me is very conflicted, mostly in regards to the polygamy charges.
If it is financially viable and all parties are amenable, I don't see the point of making polygamy (as encompassing both polygyny and polyandry) illegal. #fdls
@lalie (apologetic mess): But are all parties amenable if, in order to maintain the required male to female ratio for polygamy, they expel male teenagers and young men? #fdls
@Lymed: you haven't defined polygamy, you've described the culture that often surrounds polygamy.
I think by legalizing polygamy and encouraging people to get marriage licenses from the country/state, you could eliminate some of the problems because there's a way to track these relationships and determine who is responsible for whom.
Marriage in a legal context isn't about sex, its about determining who has what rights and responsibilities towards another. People can have polyamourous relationships, but this isn't really what its about. #fdls
@pichou: I never claimed to have defined polygamy. I am replying to a coment lalie made about FDLS in which she said "if all parties are amenable." I am questioning whether, in this instance, all parties are amenable because FDLS expels young men and teenage males. #fdls
@Lymed: That's a good point. I would agree that complicates things; I didn't actually know that about FDLS.
But then, wouldn't polygamy as a whole being illegal make it so that issue is somewhat ignored? It's just, "oh, that's an illegal type of marriage," and not, "this woman was not given another choice". #fdls
@Lymed: not only that, but if your husband pisses off the leader, you and your kids can be re-assigned to a man of his choosing, while your husband is expelled from the compound. that's right - even as an adult, you don't have a choice.
I know "Big Love" makes it seem like polygamists are basically standard-issue, suburban Relief Society ladies with interesting personal lives, but the majority of cases (like the FLDS in Hilldale/Colorado City) are more like Nikki's family on the compound.
Not that there aren't consenting adults making it work in the suburbs like the Henricksons, but that's not what we're dealing with most of the time. #fdls
@Lymed: Lalie wasn't saying that polygamy should be allowed specifically for FDLS, but rather that polygamy should be allowed in general provided all parties are amenable.
You can have amenable parties even if young men are expelled from the community.
Unfortunately, I think you're right in that these practices limit choice and in many cases amount to coercision. #fdls
11/11/09
Dear Cynthia,
Tell your stupid assistant superintendent that he's 15 years behind the times. I took my girlfriend to prom in 1994. The seas did not boil, the earth did not quake, and society did not instantly crumble. A couple of guys came out of the closet a year later, but I'm pretty sure that would have happened anyway.
Don't back down. Prom is silly, overrated, and damn important in this society.
Love,
la.donna.pietra #condoms
11/11/09
I'm guessing the men where shirtless due to it being hot (likely terrible conditions to work in), so I'm picturing them dripping sweat onto the condoms as they are being packaged. Yuck... #condoms
11/12/09
11/12/09
[www.lifestylesplay.com] #condoms
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
[www.post-gazette.com] #condoms
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Are there schools where you need to register your date? #condoms
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
They were young, but they weren't stupid. They knew what would get them harassed by administrators and students if they pulled it at a school sponsored event. Most gay kids have already been harassed by faculty in school. Of course you ask first, before you buy the dress and shoes and rent the limo. #condoms
11/11/09
11/11/09
Which made the top of the list ("la.donna.pietra and Lisa!") particularly interesting, in 1994. #condoms
11/11/09
I did get my tires slashed, though. I'm pretty sure that was by a fellow prom-goer. #condoms
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
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11/11/09
10/26/09
The men in positions of power (there are no women who hold the priesthood) bare more than religious swords over their followers heads. They control the economic, emotional, and social power from birth until death. This is a system of abuse from start to finish.
Jessop is part of that system and indeed, a family, of patriarchs that practice extreme control over others, and will not hesitate to inflict violence and death for subversion (blood atonement). Whether or not he is guilty of this particular charge or set of charges, the pattern is clear, and traceable for about 100 years, with escalation in the past 30 or so. I hope he, and the others, are convicted and that it brings a spotlight bright as the sun upon the 'Yearning for Zion' compound and other FLDS strongholds.
I wish I wasn't so angry about this. I've lived my life in the two states most accepting of FLDS practices, and I'm infuriated that these state governments do nothing but turn a blind eye to what is happening. I understand that they go after charges they think they can win, but it still really gets me riled up. Clearly I'll never sit on a jury in one of these cases. #fdls
10/26/09
10/26/09
that being said, i hope these guys get whats coming to them, because they disgust me. #fdls
10/26/09
Perhaps we are not providing what our founders expected in the constitution, but considering they had no problem trying women and blacks in front of juries made completely of white men, I doubt they would complain. #fdls
10/26/09
10/26/09
10/26/09
10/26/09
If it is financially viable and all parties are amenable, I don't see the point of making polygamy (as encompassing both polygyny and polyandry) illegal. #fdls
10/26/09
10/26/09
I think by legalizing polygamy and encouraging people to get marriage licenses from the country/state, you could eliminate some of the problems because there's a way to track these relationships and determine who is responsible for whom.
Marriage in a legal context isn't about sex, its about determining who has what rights and responsibilities towards another. People can have polyamourous relationships, but this isn't really what its about. #fdls
10/26/09
10/26/09
But then, wouldn't polygamy as a whole being illegal make it so that issue is somewhat ignored? It's just, "oh, that's an illegal type of marriage," and not, "this woman was not given another choice". #fdls
10/26/09
I know "Big Love" makes it seem like polygamists are basically standard-issue, suburban Relief Society ladies with interesting personal lives, but the majority of cases (like the FLDS in Hilldale/Colorado City) are more like Nikki's family on the compound.
Not that there aren't consenting adults making it work in the suburbs like the Henricksons, but that's not what we're dealing with most of the time. #fdls
10/27/09
You can have amenable parties even if young men are expelled from the community.
Unfortunately, I think you're right in that these practices limit choice and in many cases amount to coercision. #fdls