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kit10indublin
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
The minumum hourly pay rate in Ireland is €8.65 - approx $9.22.

The Irish government is considering reducing this. Because "we're" not competive enough...

They do have a point - in a way. Some multi-national companies based here have hugely reduced staff or worse, closed factories/manufacturing facilities to move to cheaper waged countires. To 'cut costs'.

BUT it's damned expensive to work and live in Ireland. Never mind exist.

The Irish government are also considering reducing Social Welfare (dole, etc) payments by 5% - cos supposeldy living 'costs' have been reduced by that amount here in the last 12 months. Riiiiight....

God forbid that any person or family that has lost a wage or two wages could have 5% more to live on or spend per week or month.
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Elizabth_Bennet
07/24/09

@kit10indublin: You know what will stop jobs going overseas? An internationally agreed to minimum wage.
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solidbrassfasteners
07/24/09

@Elizabth_Bennet: No, that will just increase the number of jobs that go to countries that don't follow the international minimum wage.

Additionally, a $5/hour wage will get you a lot more in one country than another; do we set the minimum wage to the country with the highest cost of living? The lowest?
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J.D.Regent
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
All you commies just don't get it. Paying people LESS MONEY makes them more rich. Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you?
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spamanda
07/24/09

@J.D.Regent: Also, everyone KNOWS they could go and find a better, higher-paying job if they WANTED. One with health insurance and benefits, obviously.
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KetchupFiend
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
Does anyone know why home healthcare workers are exempt from the minimum wage?
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED promoted this comment KetchupFiend was starred KetchupFiend was unstarred

pantsless economist...access RESTORED
07/24/09

@KetchupFiend: You're exempt if your business doesn't engage in interstate commerce, I believe.
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Her Grace: SNOWED IN
07/25/09

@KetchupFiend: Because taking care of the needy should be done by people who can find literally NO other job. Oh. Wait. No.
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SomeAuthorGirl
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
The minimum wage in the town where my company is based is appx $2 higher than the now-current federal minimum wage. Business owners (not me) bitched up a storm about it at the time, but now several years later the results have been meaningful. Depending on who you ask of course. Some people are irredeemable Scroogebags no matter what.
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Dances with Peeps
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
The less pay to tipped workers should be ended NOW. Here in California, servers have to be paid the state minimum wage, which is higher than the federal. We still have successful restaurants.
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LaFemme
07/24/09

@Dances with Peeps: Sure- but you then would have to overhaul the tipping customs. I tip 20% for mediocre service and 25%+ for stellar. If they are going to raise food prices to pay the servers more, that is fine, but they can't then expect similar tips.
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Her Grace: SNOWED IN
07/25/09

@LaFemme: Is that a problem? Australia, for instance, pays their servers and has no real tipping customs, and it was a delight to live there. The quality of service was the same as I've had in the US.
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Yahtzii
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
The sad thing to me is that $7.25 is still so far below a living wage that while it may help some people, it's probably not going to be life-changing. Has anyone else read Nickeled and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenriech? She worked in various low-wage jobs (waitress, Wal-mart, etc) and even though her pay was above minimum wage, she was still barely able to survive. Not to mention that in her experiment she was living alone and only had to support herself.
Still, progress is progress. I guess.
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cate3710 promoted this comment Edited by Yahtzii at 07/24/09 4:46 PM Yahtzii was starred Yahtzii was unstarred

thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.
07/24/09

@Yahtzii: I hated a lot about that book and the author's attitudes, but it did make me realize that minimum wage is not a working wage.
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Yahtzii
07/24/09

@thesciencegirl: Really? I loved it. It's been a while and I read it when I was pretty young, but I'm curious to know what you hated about it.
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
07/24/09

@thesciencegirl: Another one everyone should read "The Working Poor" by David Shipler. It's excellent.
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jemandtheholograms
07/24/09

@Yahtzii: This is the real issue. If you work 40 hours a day, 50 weeks a year at this rate you only earn $14,500. Which puts you nowhere near the federal poverty line for a family of 3, and slightly below for a family of 2.
It's inexcusable for us to live in a country where we pay people less than necessary to exist on.
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thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.
07/24/09

@Yahtzii: Her entitled attitude, several offensive remarks: stuff about "Now I understand why people have abortions" in response to ill-behaved kids, and how wearing her Walmart vest in public helped her feel "a little bit of what it must be like to be black." I thought her writing smacked of privilege. Those are the only examples I can remember; I read the book 8 years ago.
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Yahtzii
07/24/09

@thesciencegirl: I am enlightened. I had forgotten all about that.
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MissFiFi
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
I am baffled no one thinks it is offensive that the fed minimum wage is 2.13 an hour. I'm sorry, how is anyone supposed to get by on that?? Tips cannot always be counted on either.
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Lin-Z [linguist on duty]
07/24/09

@MissFiFi: I think that they are probably offended by this, but they are focusing more on the content of the AP article.
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nora charles
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
For what it's worth, the dishwashers that are being let go in the first example probably do make regular ol' minimum wage, not server-minimum wage. While waitstaff (and sometimes bar staff) make somewhere in the $2-3/hour range in most states, hostesses, cooks, dishwashers, and sometimes busboys usually make the normal minimum, so it's not that restaurant owners aren't affected at all by this change.
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LolaQuinn is full of beans
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
I find that the people who rally hardest against minimum wage increases are people who never had to live on minimum wage.
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medeasdragons
07/24/09

@LolaQuinn is full of beans: I don't know that I entirely disagree with the general principle of their opposition. Supply and demand is supply and demand, and the fact is that the minimum wage artificially shifts the employment demand curve. That being said, I don't necessarily oppose the increase in a minimum wage because, as you say, someone's got to look out for the little people.
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED promoted this comment medeasdragons was starred medeasdragons was unstarred

pantsless economist...access RESTORED
07/24/09

@medeasdragons: There's a lot of different views on that. Empirical evidence doesn't support the textbook model. Plus, there's a few really cool studies that found in a lot of areas, employment went up with an increase in the minimum wage as a result of monopsony effects.
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
07/24/09

@medeasdragons: Basically, I think a lot of people use arguments from Econ 101 that are way too simple to justify opposing the minimum wage. (And to argue against healthcare, and benefits for the poor, and Social Security, and on and on...)
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rightfootleft
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
While I agree with almost everything you say and the wage increase (Awesome!), in many states if tipped workers do not make the minimum wage at the end of the day when the tips are actually counted, the company has to compensate them to at least bring their wages up to what they would have made at the hourly minimum. So in some cases this will impact tipped workers positively.
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cate3710 promoted this comment Edited by rightfootleft at 07/24/09 4:41 PM rightfootleft was starred rightfootleft was unstarred

rightfootleft
07/24/09

@rightfootleft: Although they are still way undercompensated!
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Lin-Z [linguist on duty]
07/24/09

@rightfootleft: I believe this is the case in most states. My cousin was waitressing for a while and that's what she told me.
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MIXED
07/24/09

In reply to Women Wage-Earners — The Economy? — Get A Boost
Does anyone know why the minimum wage for restaurant waitstaff hasn't gone up in 15+ years? I make $2.13 an hour to wait tables and so did my mom in the 1980's.
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FrabjousDay
07/24/09

@MIXED: The assumption is that in positions where you get tips, the tips will average out so your hourly wage is equal to or above minimum wage. If after tips you aren't making at least minimum wage, your employer is supposed to compensate you. Unfortunately, that's a big supposed to, as a lot of places don't. Conversely, when I waitressed in DC, if I made enough tips to equal minimum wage + $2.13, they'd take the $2.13 away too. My pay checks would literally be $0, because tips were above minimum wage. It sucks.
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Penny
07/24/09

@MIXED: Tips, I assume. Although, you'd think there would be some kind of cost of living adjustment. Perhaps they assume that people's tipping habits will change with time? It does, indeed, seem unfair.
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mrsdracomalfoy
07/24/09

@MIXED: You should move to Oregon. The state minimum wage is 9.10 and hour, and (I'm not sure if by law or by choice) restaurants pay ALL their staff, waitresses, waiters, everyone, the $9.10/hr *plus* tips. That's one thing I love about Oregon.

I hope it changes soon everywhere, but I doubt it will.
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whiskeylady
07/24/09

@FrabjousDay: That sucks! I used to always laugh at the $16 check I'd get after waiting tables for two weeks but would have been pissed to get nothing.

And while tips can make a decent amount (though rarely for raising a family) at a nice restaurant, I fail to see how $2.13 plus tips will ever equal minimum wage at a nail salon! That's 30 minutes of work for one customer! So you can maybe get two in a hour (if the place is booked up solid) and each gives you 2-3 dollars? not for 8 hours a day, i'm sure!
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
07/24/09

@MIXED: I can't figure out why it's not just a percentage of the minimum wage. As in, min wage goes up 11%, min wage for tip earners should go up 11%...
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NellMood
07/24/09

@mrsdracomalfoy: I think it's actually $8.40 in Oregon, unless it's gone up since January?
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mrsdracomalfoy
07/24/09

@NellMood: Oh yeah, sorry. I'm not sure where I picked an arbitrary number out of the sky. Yes, it is 8.40. But it's still so much better than Tennessee. I moved from there to Oregon, and going from 5.65 an hour to 7.95 was like a dream.
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NellMood
07/24/09

@mrsdracomalfoy: Oh, no big deal. I just had to check and make sure I hadn't missed another big wage hike. $8.40 is still pretty awesome. It's the second highest in the country, after WA.
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Her Grace: SNOWED IN
07/25/09

@whiskeylady: I had no idea that nail salon workers were in the tipped category at all. Now I feel like shit for not tipping every time I've gotten my eyebrows waxed.
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Flackette Goes Retro
06/25/09

In reply to Worth A Thousand Words
I know it has been said before, but I am so glad you post these SJ photos from around the world.
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tiny_danza
06/25/09

In reply to Worth A Thousand Words
wow.

more powerful than the shots of jen g and violet in the playground of yesteryear. thanks jezebel for evolving and giving us a forum for these valuable discourses.

tiny danza SO likes this.

can you tell?
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BAngieB
06/25/09

Huh. What did "jen g's" mask read?
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