It would be nice if there was a traveling AbortionMobile that would deliver the needed meds in the guise of a friend visiting, who would then walk you through the process in the privacy of your own home. You could choose your caretaker's ethnicity and age group for minimum notice in your neighborhood. You would have a trained medical professional just in case anything went wrong... like a midwife, a babysitter, but with a focus on the mother. Like being a volunteer firefighter, I think a lot of women would want to help other women through this difficult time.
@booboolee: I want to live in a world where that is possible!
Maybe with a visiting medical professional to do the checkup and deliver the medication. They could remain on-call attending others nearby so the woman can can if anything off the norm happens. Give incentives/tuition subsidy to med students for volunteering x hours per semester in the program?
Child care, if necessary, could be provided by the sister program that has volunteer properly-screened caregivers so that the adults in the community can get medical attention.
I'm really, REALLY damn lucky in some respects. I've mentioned before my father's family is southern Irish Catholic, Dad included. Yet I've always known that if the choice had to be made, and I chose abortion, I wouldn't be shunned, or disowned. Certain family members wouldn't be told, but more for my own sanity than any shame.
Having said that, I also know about distant relatives (Granddad is eldest of thirteen SURVIVING children), one of whome lost a daughter to a backstreet abortion. She had planned to travel to England and get it done over here, and they destroyed her passport and took most of her money. She was fifteen. FIFTEEN. And people wonder why I've cut most of that side of the family out of my life?
Just out of curiosity, why are so many people resentful of having an intermediary for medicine? I ask because I don't have that sentiment at all and it's not one I understand, so I'd love to hear where you are coming from.
For me, I want somebody with professional training to choose the antibiotic I need for bronchitis, or counsel me on the potential gastric bleeding I might get with the pain killer I've been given for my knee. Learning all of the ins and outs, indications, contraindications, side effects, adverse events, potential interaction, etc, of drugs takes a long time, and that is training I haven't had. Maybe my awesome relationship with my own doctor has given me an unusual perspective on the issue.
@jellybird: I think it's the issue that the intermediary is required, but not everyone is comfortable with or can afford or has access to said intermediary. (For example, if I am worried about being deported, I probably wouldn't want to go to the hospital.)
@jellybird: I think is sometimes experiences with unsuitable intermediaries. Usually, I get excellent access to care because I am a pharmacology grad, I have a bajillion MDs in my family, and knowing about what's going on in my body is one of my hobbies.
Not a lot of people have those privileges or the ability to understand medical jargon. And unfortunately there are many doctors that do not explain with detail what does the patient has, what are they gonna do to solve it, and how the medication works in their bodies. Which would make the patient understand what secondary effects they might have and why they might have it.
Additionally, physiology is fucking complex and some part of the population has no use for the amount of excruciating detail it takes to properly explain what is going on.
I know, kind of rambly of me but that's what I got so far :/
@Brigit: The solution to unsuitable intermediaries and unaffordable intermediaries is not to get rid of their need, but to make sure they provide quality, affordable care.
*sight* This is also very common in Puerto Rico for the same reasons. I know girls that have done it, or tried weird things like hot malta with some OTC 'natural' somethingoranother for the "regla" to come down.
Even buying a goddamn pregnancy test is to risque for some.
@Brigit: Why do all the recipes contain malta? Is there some chemical reaction, or is it just that ingesting large quantities of malta causes your body to violently expel everything inside of it?
@Brigit: Yeah I think this is common all over Latin America. I know some girls who have done it too. If you are wealthier, you can pay to stay in a hospital while they administer the drugs, or have your tonsils out at the same time to be super secretive.
@Brigit: I went into my abortion expecting to be shamed into it, and I had the greatest most relaxed procedure I could have asked for, all this in Bayamon, Puerto Rico.
@KimGordonsPanties: My best friend had one in a private practice and it went similarly well. Planned Parenthood in Hato Rey gave me my contraceptives all throughout college. I love them. They also did checkups and vasectomies for the guys!!
Almost all the folks I know that have used Cytotec for abortions was when I was in my late teens, so it was mostly a lack of information and fear of authority figures type of thing.
I wish I could respond to comments, but I cannot today, so for everyone who responded to my original comment, you're right- most medicine requires an intermediary (which also frustrates me, I didn't mean that this only included issues of me n my uterus), and yes there is something to be said for a woman having a doctor not necessarily standing between her and medical care but advocating the safest thing for her to do in accordance with her wishes.
I don't know, I'm torn on this issue. Not the issue that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare, AND destigmatized. But (and I'm having trouble articulating what I mean) I so resent the medical industry taking control away from women, and all the fearmongering, so let the women take their health into their own hands.
And, fwiw, I don't want to sound like I'm saying "who cares about the poor people." I'm from a well-off family and my sister likes to call me "the witch doctor" (which I am not, but I wish I was!). I bring on my periods with parsley tea, and I would almost certainly try inducing an abortion with vitamin c or something before going to a clinic if the need ever arises, knock on wood it doesn't.
@lisomiso: Bring back witches and midwives!! While the medical profession has advanced medical care and survival rates in ways unimaginable to someone living a couple centuries ago, there is a downside to taking some basic herbal medical knowledge out of the hands of families and communities and putting it solely in the hands of professionals, where it is not always possible to access.
@lisomiso: And hopefully you don't nearly bleed to death from "bringing on your period" with something that for whatever reason ends up being a lot stronger than you thought. Like, say, the moron at Kresge Hall my sophomore year at UCSC who didn't want to use condoms "because they weren't natural" and decided that pennyroyal tea was a much better idea when she was a bit late. I don't think the UC Regents meant for that to be part of my college education, but it certainly made an impression.
Sorry for the harsh tone, but you wouldn't take herbs that affected your heart that way--why do you mess around with your uterus?
@meetballz: I'm not a fan of abortion. I don't own a "Go Team Abortion" t-shirt. I also don't own a "Let's force all women to have babies that don't want/won't survive/can't afford" t-shirt either.
@treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest: I don't have that t-shirt either, but I plan on creating one. "Team Abortion!" all the way. Coming soon to a cafe press near you.
@meetballz: Nobody's a fan of abortion. Speaking as someone who considered having one (but decided against it), I didn't think "Oh, those sound fun! I should get one!" I thought, "Thank God I have the option to chose what to do with my body."
@meetballz: Neither am I. I, however, was not a fan of being a parent to a child I could not afford to raise. In fact, I was even on the Pill and still managed to get pregnant. Maybe I have bionic ovum?
But, maybe you're missing a key point. You don't have to be a fan, but you sure as shit should hope we all have proper access to them, as opposed to when my mother, 45 years ago. She was sent to a doctor with a coat hanger.
@meetballz: I hope always to be able to avoid having one by controlling my own fertility, but I am a HUGE fan of having the option available if need be.
I am also, however, disappointed abortion did not make the play-offs.
@llamalash: I'm going to start an "I Heart Abortion" Facebook group.
@meetballz: Then, as the bumper sticker says, don't have one! Work to support paid family leave, comprehensive sex education, work to de-stigmatize birth control methods, etc. Don't be a pig-headed jerk who just says "abrotions are bad, mmkay" and then does nothing to make the alternatives more feasable or workable.
@meetballz: I'm not a fan of women having to choose between carrying their rapists' babies or possibly hemorrhaging to death alone in their bathrooms.
When I was raped in the Bible Belt as a high schooler, I had NO ONE to turn to. I still think my miscarriage was a gift from God/Goddess. I hope you are never put in that situation.
There are a lot of risks to self-induced abortions. They've been going on since the beginning of time. It would be wonderful if we lived in a society where it was shame-free. I guess it's up to us to do our best to create that society.
Unfortunately, the financial obstacle is another huge hurdle. I think often that is the main reason many women opt to avoid abortion clinics or doctors. Making abortifacients/abortions more affordable would be much easier to achieve than taking away the stigma. Sadly though, the two play together so hand-in-hand (shame and cost) that finding financial donors or politicians to fight for that would be difficult.
@llamalash: I know someone who had a miscarriage with pills. I absolutely believe the cost of a safe abortion is the reason. She had lived in a car before, had a child, couldn't afford a phone and had just moved into an tiny apartment she was having trouble making rent for. Where was the money for a PP abortion supposed to come from?
@MySymphony: Those most fiancially vulnerable in our society cannot afford the $350+ that it costs for either the pill induced (not plan B) or clinical abortion. I hope that "someone" you knew was okay after her experience!
I'm glad to read earlier in these comments that some areas of NY do allow for medicaid to help cover the cost. That's unheard of here in TX, or most other states I would assume.
Last year my lovely, blond-haired, blue-eyed, all-American friend had to get a late-ish abortion for medical reasons. She ended up having to go to Jersey after no clinic in Manhattan would do it. True story.
@PilgrimSoul: how late are we talking here?? i know places here in Manhattan that go up to 24 wks. i didnt think Jersey went any higher than that except in extreme health cases.
@PilgrimSoul: And hence similar (though for your friend, much more pressing and I have to imagine upsetting if not traumatic) issues with plan B and "conscience" refusals to decide. There is a TIME WINDOW, I don't have weeks to go to every damn clinic in the area, even if I had the emotional stamina to face repeated judgment and rejection. And, again, it would be one thing if it there were clear and easily available information on which places will provide what, but besides the fact that it obviously just isn't always clear, there are also those places that advertise themselves as "pregnancy crisis centers" when what they mean is "guilt you into not having an abortion centers".
Let me take a stab at this. I was brought up in a repressive, religious household where guilt and punishment were always front and center, so I know a little bit about the psychological effects and subconscious ways people hurt themselves as a result.
Inside the minds of some of these women, abortion is bad. A sin. An act worthy of punishment. So, they take the risk with a cut-rate, DIY abortion because, in a twisted way, it gives God/the universe/karma the chance to punish them. It's a terribly risky, unfortunate way of dealing with the guilt.*
Take the pills and have complications? You sinned, sister, and now you're paying for it. On the other hand, pop 30 ulcer pills and have nothing worse happen to you than cramps and the trauma of going through this experience alone, and you're in the clear. God was watching and didn't see fit to dish out a bolt of lightning/hemorrhage, so you've been let off the hook.
*Disclaimer: I'm not saying every woman who has an abortion deals with guilt issues. I know a few personally that haven't. I just think guilt is likely to crop up as an issue here because of the prominent role religion and the Catholic church play in these women's lives.
@IvyLeagueMetalhead: I had a similar upbringing as you-although the church was generally worse than my parents-and your idea intrigues me. You may be onto something.
As far as guilt goes, the idea of telling my mom is what kills me. She would probably pray for me. Sigh.
Anything that is rough that it will detach a fetus from a woman, is rough enough to make my bleed to death...which is why doctors MUST be involved. Clearly, the pharmacists should be educated in how to deal with these situations...
Also, Planned Parenthood is the best thing since sliced bread. I wish people knew about it...and its anonymity. (Yes, I realize its a cultural/religious thing...but still)
@info*ninja: Too bad I didn't proofread...clearly I meant "Anything that's rough enough to rip a fetus from my body, is rough enough to make me bleed to death"...I appreciate you overlooking that :)
It makes me itchy that they quoted some O.B. as saying that he can see why some women do this because they want a "more private" abortion experience. Planned Parenthood gives you the medical abortion pill to take home, instructions on how to use it, and calls you at home the time you've set up to take it to make sure you're doing OK. Private.
For those who feel like they can't be seen walking into a clinic at all, though, that's a hard problem that I can't deny. (I'd like to be able to say "Well then just go to your GP, because RU-486 is legal and FDA-approved so of course he'll give it to you, right??" but somehow I have this sinking feeling that the answer would be "wrong.")
I just felt like the availability of non-DIY at-home medical abortion needed to be made SUPER clear, in case any freaked-out soon-to-be-not-pregnant woman got the wrong idea...
@Sapphir3blu3: You also need to remember many people don't have a GP to go to. If you are uninsured, then your GP may be a local community clinic which may or may not provide these services. If you are a low wage worker without sick leave, can you afford to sit hours in the clinic waiting room?
Which also makes me wonder what the cost of these drugs are compared to RU-486. It may be a cheaper option.
@Sapphir3blu3: have they changed their policy recently? they wanted me to stay there after taking ru486 "just in case" -- which is why i chose standard vacuum style instead. this wasn't THAT long ago...maybe it's just that hated bowery PP that's the issue.
It's sad they feel so ashamed of this - the lives of so many millions of people would be immeasurably improved if we could just get rid of social and religious prejudices against abortion and birth control (such as a woman I met in Brazil whose husband had left her to raise SEVEN kids, in a shanty town)
@Glitterbug: I have precisely one extremely religious friend who quickly got demoted to acquaintance. I can only imagine the crap she would spew if she found out about a potential abortion of mine.
Another story about the social stigma of birth control and abortion: A friend of the family worked in Saudi Arabia for a while, as a teacher. Once, she decided to have a debate. This is not a concept Saudi women understand, apparently. So, M. decides, what to debate about: What if you could choose how many children you could have?
The women stare and you can just see "HARAM! HARAM!" flash across their foreheads. "We cannot decide! It is our husbands' decision!"
"Well, how many siblings do you have?"
The answers range from ten to twenty, and the discussion carries on, with the women absolutely horrified about the notion of someone suggesting they choose how many children they could have or use birth control. Until one woman, who sat silently in the back, says, "I would have two."
The others turn around and, again "HARAM!" and the whispers start. M. says, "Aha. And can you tell me why?"
"I miss my father." Silence. "I am one of sixteen children. When my father comes home, the others run faster than I. I never get to see him, and I miss him. I would spare my children this." (You could literally see light bulbs flash on above the class' heads at this point.)
My family is, thank God, liberal. My mom even worked for Planned Parenthood when she was fresh out of medical school! I would weep if I had been raised in such a society.
Wooo! Washington Heights, my beloved neighborhood. FIRST you were rated the loudest neighborhood in Manhattan and now you're #1 in underground abortions.
@egg cream: BUT, our reported crime rate is lower than that of the Upper East Side. Nice :-) And don't fret; there's a Papaya Dog on 177th and B'way, which is right by my gourmet grocer, and the church where Beck played a little while ago. So good things, too!
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Maybe with a visiting medical professional to do the checkup and deliver the medication. They could remain on-call attending others nearby so the woman can can if anything off the norm happens. Give incentives/tuition subsidy to med students for volunteering x hours per semester in the program?
Child care, if necessary, could be provided by the sister program that has volunteer properly-screened caregivers so that the adults in the community can get medical attention.
01/05/09
Having said that, I also know about distant relatives (Granddad is eldest of thirteen SURVIVING children), one of whome lost a daughter to a backstreet abortion. She had planned to travel to England and get it done over here, and they destroyed her passport and took most of her money. She was fifteen. FIFTEEN. And people wonder why I've cut most of that side of the family out of my life?
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For me, I want somebody with professional training to choose the antibiotic I need for bronchitis, or counsel me on the potential gastric bleeding I might get with the pain killer I've been given for my knee. Learning all of the ins and outs, indications, contraindications, side effects, adverse events, potential interaction, etc, of drugs takes a long time, and that is training I haven't had. Maybe my awesome relationship with my own doctor has given me an unusual perspective on the issue.
What do you think?
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Not a lot of people have those privileges or the ability to understand medical jargon. And unfortunately there are many doctors that do not explain with detail what does the patient has, what are they gonna do to solve it, and how the medication works in their bodies. Which would make the patient understand what secondary effects they might have and why they might have it.
Additionally, physiology is fucking complex and some part of the population has no use for the amount of excruciating detail it takes to properly explain what is going on.
I know, kind of rambly of me but that's what I got so far :/
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Even buying a goddamn pregnancy test is to risque for some.
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I've heard the ol' "drinking hot malta will make women miscarry!' my whole life.
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I went into my abortion expecting to be shamed into it, and I had the greatest most relaxed procedure I could have asked for, all this in Bayamon, Puerto Rico.
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In a Planned Parenthood facility, I might add.
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Almost all the folks I know that have used Cytotec for abortions was when I was in my late teens, so it was mostly a lack of information and fear of authority figures type of thing.
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Stupid teknoligeez.
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And, fwiw, I don't want to sound like I'm saying "who cares about the poor people." I'm from a well-off family and my sister likes to call me "the witch doctor" (which I am not, but I wish I was!). I bring on my periods with parsley tea, and I would almost certainly try inducing an abortion with vitamin c or something before going to a clinic if the need ever arises, knock on wood it doesn't.
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Sorry for the harsh tone, but you wouldn't take herbs that affected your heart that way--why do you mess around with your uterus?
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But, maybe you're missing a key point. You don't have to be a fan, but you sure as shit should hope we all have proper access to them, as opposed to when my mother, 45 years ago. She was sent to a doctor with a coat hanger.
TRUE FUCKING STORY.
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I am also, however, disappointed abortion did not make the play-offs.
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@meetballz: Then, as the bumper sticker says, don't have one! Work to support paid family leave, comprehensive sex education, work to de-stigmatize birth control methods, etc. Don't be a pig-headed jerk who just says "abrotions are bad, mmkay" and then does nothing to make the alternatives more feasable or workable.
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When I was raped in the Bible Belt as a high schooler, I had NO ONE to turn to. I still think my miscarriage was a gift from God/Goddess. I hope you are never put in that situation.
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Unfortunately, the financial obstacle is another huge hurdle. I think often that is the main reason many women opt to avoid abortion clinics or doctors. Making abortifacients/abortions more affordable would be much easier to achieve than taking away the stigma. Sadly though, the two play together so hand-in-hand (shame and cost) that finding financial donors or politicians to fight for that would be difficult.
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I'm glad to read earlier in these comments that some areas of NY do allow for medicaid to help cover the cost. That's unheard of here in TX, or most other states I would assume.
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Inside the minds of some of these women, abortion is bad. A sin. An act worthy of punishment. So, they take the risk with a cut-rate, DIY abortion because, in a twisted way, it gives God/the universe/karma the chance to punish them. It's a terribly risky, unfortunate way of dealing with the guilt.*
Take the pills and have complications? You sinned, sister, and now you're paying for it. On the other hand, pop 30 ulcer pills and have nothing worse happen to you than cramps and the trauma of going through this experience alone, and you're in the clear. God was watching and didn't see fit to dish out a bolt of lightning/hemorrhage, so you've been let off the hook.
*Disclaimer: I'm not saying every woman who has an abortion deals with guilt issues. I know a few personally that haven't. I just think guilt is likely to crop up as an issue here because of the prominent role religion and the Catholic church play in these women's lives.
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As far as guilt goes, the idea of telling my mom is what kills me. She would probably pray for me. Sigh.
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Also, Planned Parenthood is the best thing since sliced bread. I wish people knew about it...and its anonymity. (Yes, I realize its a cultural/religious thing...but still)
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For those who feel like they can't be seen walking into a clinic at all, though, that's a hard problem that I can't deny. (I'd like to be able to say "Well then just go to your GP, because RU-486 is legal and FDA-approved so of course he'll give it to you, right??" but somehow I have this sinking feeling that the answer would be "wrong.")
I just felt like the availability of non-DIY at-home medical abortion needed to be made SUPER clear, in case any freaked-out soon-to-be-not-pregnant woman got the wrong idea...
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Which also makes me wonder what the cost of these drugs are compared to RU-486. It may be a cheaper option.
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I'm so glad my parents aren't religious.
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Another story about the social stigma of birth control and abortion: A friend of the family worked in Saudi Arabia for a while, as a teacher. Once, she decided to have a debate. This is not a concept Saudi women understand, apparently. So, M. decides, what to debate about: What if you could choose how many children you could have?
The women stare and you can just see "HARAM! HARAM!" flash across their foreheads. "We cannot decide! It is our husbands' decision!"
"Well, how many siblings do you have?"
The answers range from ten to twenty, and the discussion carries on, with the women absolutely horrified about the notion of someone suggesting they choose how many children they could have or use birth control. Until one woman, who sat silently in the back, says, "I would have two."
The others turn around and, again "HARAM!" and the whispers start. M. says, "Aha. And can you tell me why?"
"I miss my father." Silence. "I am one of sixteen children. When my father comes home, the others run faster than I. I never get to see him, and I miss him. I would spare my children this." (You could literally see light bulbs flash on above the class' heads at this point.)
My family is, thank God, liberal. My mom even worked for Planned Parenthood when she was fresh out of medical school! I would weep if I had been raised in such a society.
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