I just moved back to Bumpkinville, Illinois from NYC and today I saw a large group of people on the side of the road handing out flyers about Death Panels with giant pictures of Obama depicted as Hitler. My mother wouldn't stop the car so I could get out but to be honest I wouldn't even have known what to say. I was so shocked and pissed off and I know the chances of having an actual discussion with them about why they feel that way would be nonexistent.
Just... REALLY?
Me and a friend are probably going to stand near them tomorrow (apparently they're out there all the time) and just fight fire with fire. We'll get our own Obama poster and try to sway some crazies to our side. It's a long shot, but I can't just sit home knowing our side isn't being heard.
@the_fraulein: I saw people with Obama = Hitler signs here in decidedly nonbumpkin Seattle and was like WTF? But then as I approached I saw it was the LaRoucheites and was like oh of course. I mean they think everybody is Hitler.
Tangent: why does everybody have to be Hitler? I even balked at the Bush=Hitler comparisons and I detest that guy. Find a new meme plzkthxbai.
All this ridiculousness over "death panels" makes me really sad, because I think what the provision originally offered--optional counselling about end-of-life decisions--is really important, and something everyone should be encouraged and assisted in doing. One of the things I read more and more often is how people delay hospice care, which I know personally to have been a huge blessing for my family and many others.
And it's absolutely reprehensible for Sarah Palin to use her sone for cheap political melodrama and falsehood, but what else is new?
Alright, can someone more informed than me break it down clearly WHY these Republicans are spreading lies about "death panels"? Is it purely ideological (i.e. they are fundamentally opposed to public health care because they want to maintain the order of haves and have-nots and are simply picking the most expedient way to terrify people into opposing the bill)? Or is it more issue-specific (i.e. they have real, concrete ulterior motives in wanting to inhibit public health care in general and end-of-life counselling in particular)? Or do they just not want the Democrats to get anything done because they are blinded by their bipartisan politics?
Because I don't freaking get it. I can sort of comprehend the town hall protesters because they are generally uninformed idiots who listen to politicians uncritically but I don't understand why the politicians themselves are playing demagogue.
@Cerridwen: It's because they are willing to do whatever it takes to curtail actual progress. They want to keep things exactly the way they are-- and not just the way they are now; ideally they want things to be the way they were 60 years ago.
Honestly, I think the fact that we elected a black president is really fucking with them, and they don't know what else to do about it.
@kellieherson: You're probably right about the fact that a black president is freaking them out. It feels like some sort of massive, collective case of projection.
Somebody with a soapbox needs to come out and say the truth: Republicans hate America. They. Hate. This. Country. They couldn't give a damn about Americans, either individually or as a group, and they hate the ideals on which America was founded.
Or else they'd tell Bachmann and Palin to GTFO and attempt a reasoned discourse.
I don't understand this damn concept of Death Panels (which keep reminding me of Death Eaters). Are they trying to say that my granny will get denied treatment from these panels because she is too old or sick?
@dirtybee: The concept of "death panels" is an absurd caricature of a more traditional concept, namely, rationing healthcare at a national level, which would trickle down to your granny getting denied for a fourth hip replacement so's little timmy could get a flu shot. I have a hard time believing that a country with a GDP as large as the US would have to ration healthcare in a universal system where a company wasn't profiting off of my health/not caring for me in illlness. It's a red herring. Also, private insurance companies practice a form of rationing by systematically denying healthcare services to customers in order to maximize profit for their shareholders.
@dirtybee: Well, it's not as romantic as death eaters and all that. I wouldn't want to paint the whole industry and all of the associated employees in that way, per se. But with privatized insurance, we're playing monopoly with our welfare. When you have a lot of money involved in an industry, important people figure out ways get more of it in their corner. It's amazing what you can accomplish by pushing a zero around or carrying a one -- problem is, you're dealing with people's lives.
There are reasons why certain services are nationalized in a free society -- defense, basic education, social security, transport to a certain extent -- and I believe that universal healthcare qualifies, too. We need to provide a bottom line for our citizens. Each one of the services I mentioned can be supplemented at a private level in this country (from gun rights to private universities to 401Ks), so why can't we do the same with healthcare?
@dirtybee: EXACTLY! And this is what people don't see. Right now your insurance company can (and does) deny TONS of procedures. Just because you have insurance doesn't mean you'll get chemo, or your child delivery will be completely covered with your copay.
Even the price of the care is misunderstood. They are complaining that the government will charge $50 for a Band-Aid. Have you seen hospital statements? That is how much they charge!
Don't these people read their EOBs? (Explanation of Benefits)
@Little Green Frog (Wise Latina): I don't think everybody DOES read their benefits. On average, the sicker and poorer you are, the less you feel like opening your mail. If you're not reading your EOBs, how likely is it that you are equiped in general to discuss your healthcare with your insurance company, assuming you have the stamina to pick up the phone and go through their deliberate labyrinth of customer service professionals, menus, and codes.
Like I said, I really believe there's a place for universal care. A "public option" sounds like a strained experiment in American capitalism (in the sense that the private care system we have works great, as long as you have capital at any point in the system). Despite the rhetoric here, I'm not a communist -- I've just experienced the failure of our healthcare system at a personal level in my family and it's a rock that will hold this country down until cast it off.
Capitalism, at certain levels, has proven itself to be a catalist for growth and progress, but at a certain point you've got to rein it in where it becomes an obstacle. We've learned there's no invisible hand. Government does have a serious role to play in American society -- anybody who denies that is being disingenuoys. I've heard talk about regional insurance collectives, and it's piqued my interest to learn more. I hope we can figure this out now.
@hilikusopus: " I don't think everybody DOES read their benefits."
And even if they do, they don't understand them. the average american adult reads comfortably at an 8th grade reading level. the average insurance document is written at a first-year college reading level.
I think one of the scariest things in all of this is that somehow people like Sarah Palin have convinced millions of Americans that they don't need to actually find out the facts for themselves. They are content to simply listen to her insane ramblings and believe it. I know a number of rather decent otherwise seemingly relatively intelligent people who are just completely up in arms about this health care business while knowing literally not one true fact about the bill or even the state of health care in America. They really believe in death panels and that someone is going to kill their baby. They have been truly convinced that the system isnt broken and that America doesnt need reform, they think everything is just hunky dory. It's terrifying that people would voluntarily be so blind and yet so vehement about it. Rage.
1. Michelle Bachman's own son now has a job with a "reeducation camp." He works for Teach for America, which is funded by...wait for it...Americorps! Oh, the irony, she is thick.
2. Republicans who persist in believing Obama really wants to kill their grandma do not have a legitimate beef with the health care bill. They are just willing to believe anything bad about Obama personally because they have a problem with HIM. I would like to think it's a disagreement over policy but given the overlap between the death panel-believing crowd and the birthers, I think most of them just don't like a black man as leader of the free world.
3. People who protest and scream about government taking over health care are either completely unaware of how their VA, Medicaid and Medicare are funded (or how much of their own tax dollars fund the uninsured), or they already have health care and don't give a flying fuck about the 40 million others without. And they think they will never get hit by a bus.
4. People who carry around "Death to Obama and his rotten children" signs at town halls meetings are not interested in a dialogue about health care. CNN needs to ignore their asses. And Fox News, which loves any maniac who's against the Democrats, just needs to go away.
5. Obama needs to let Rahm Emanuel off the leash and instead of speaking gently about misunderstandings and misconceptions, just say these death panelists are LIARS WHO ARE FUCKING WITH YOUR IGNORANT HEADS.
@willwriteforfood: re: 5, seriously where for art thou Rahmbo? I was waiting for you to kick some ass and take names so Obama could play good cop. Get off your ass barishnakov and get this bill passed.
Also, are we gonna talk about the CRAZIES bringing guns to obama public meetings as an exercise of their 2nd amendment rights? Those people make me sick and its all so so dangerous.
@Alohamaid: Don't even get me started on that one. When did Obama ever say he wanted to curtail gun rights? That was NRA fear-mongering and see how well it worked. Every gun nut in my office has stocked up on bullets. My only comfort is that these guys at least know how to use them, as opposed to the nuts who never held a gun before but now fear they need to stock up before we become a socialist country and guns are banned. What fucking ban? Obama hasn't said one word about your freaking guns! I bet he doesn't give a good goddamn whether you tote a gun but I bet a million dollars he does give a fuck if you carry it into a crowd of ranting, screaming crazies.
Great, now in 50 years, I'm going to have to explain to my grandkids gently that we sort of let this insane, uninformed women direct public policy because that's just the way it was at the time. We're going to replace McCarthyism with Palinism, aren't we?
Michelle Bachman just became the funniest person in the world with that quote right there. Amongst the many problems, two stand out:
1. "That's really my standard." Is it just me, or doesn't "standard" imply... standards?
2. She sounds like a crusader, or Paladin if you will. Meaning a crazy psychopath who refers to "the realm." I would have preferred "the Kingdom," but apples to apples.
How on earth are Palin and Bachmann able to put their pants on correctly each morning, let alone be leaders of our country? I'm amazed they don't get lost on the way to work, or distracted by something shiny.
But without death panels, how will the government make the correct decision when the next Terry Schiavo situation comes up?
I need my government to interfere with private, painful family situations involving the end (or beginning) of someone's life. You can't leave these kind of decisions up to just any little ol' woman.
Here's a weird tip to anybody who's bummed about the tenuous nature of health care legislation: read the Wall Street Journal's editorials. Not the op-eds, although those are great supplements, but the ones by the board. They lay out all these ways the Democrats might still accomplish their goals in the face of adversity (albeit through the lens of a conservative hyperventilating banker). Even though I always disagree with their opinions, I'm cheered up by the realm of possibilities.
Here, read this one and see if you don't feel better:
08/18/09
Just... REALLY?
Me and a friend are probably going to stand near them tomorrow (apparently they're out there all the time) and just fight fire with fire. We'll get our own Obama poster and try to sway some crazies to our side. It's a long shot, but I can't just sit home knowing our side isn't being heard.
08/18/09
Tangent: why does everybody have to be Hitler? I even balked at the Bush=Hitler comparisons and I detest that guy. Find a new meme plzkthxbai.
08/18/09
And it's absolutely reprehensible for Sarah Palin to use her sone for cheap political melodrama and falsehood, but what else is new?
08/18/09
Please do not run for any office whatsoever. I have a bunch of lightning bolts ready if you aren't convinced.
Sincerely,
The Lord
08/18/09
Because I don't freaking get it. I can sort of comprehend the town hall protesters because they are generally uninformed idiots who listen to politicians uncritically but I don't understand why the politicians themselves are playing demagogue.
08/18/09
Honestly, I think the fact that we elected a black president is really fucking with them, and they don't know what else to do about it.
08/18/09
08/18/09
Or else they'd tell Bachmann and Palin to GTFO and attempt a reasoned discourse.
08/18/09
08/18/09
damnit, i give up on animated gifs
08/18/09
08/18/09
08/18/09
08/18/09
There are reasons why certain services are nationalized in a free society -- defense, basic education, social security, transport to a certain extent -- and I believe that universal healthcare qualifies, too. We need to provide a bottom line for our citizens. Each one of the services I mentioned can be supplemented at a private level in this country (from gun rights to private universities to 401Ks), so why can't we do the same with healthcare?
08/18/09
Even the price of the care is misunderstood. They are complaining that the government will charge $50 for a Band-Aid. Have you seen hospital statements? That is how much they charge!
Don't these people read their EOBs? (Explanation of Benefits)
08/18/09
Like I said, I really believe there's a place for universal care. A "public option" sounds like a strained experiment in American capitalism (in the sense that the private care system we have works great, as long as you have capital at any point in the system). Despite the rhetoric here, I'm not a communist -- I've just experienced the failure of our healthcare system at a personal level in my family and it's a rock that will hold this country down until cast it off.
Capitalism, at certain levels, has proven itself to be a catalist for growth and progress, but at a certain point you've got to rein it in where it becomes an obstacle. We've learned there's no invisible hand. Government does have a serious role to play in American society -- anybody who denies that is being disingenuoys. I've heard talk about regional insurance collectives, and it's piqued my interest to learn more. I hope we can figure this out now.
08/18/09
And even if they do, they don't understand them. the average american adult reads comfortably at an 8th grade reading level. the average insurance document is written at a first-year college reading level.
(Consumers Union June 2009 report)
08/18/09
08/18/09
08/18/09
1. Michelle Bachman's own son now has a job with a "reeducation camp." He works for Teach for America, which is funded by...wait for it...Americorps! Oh, the irony, she is thick.
2. Republicans who persist in believing Obama really wants to kill their grandma do not have a legitimate beef with the health care bill. They are just willing to believe anything bad about Obama personally because they have a problem with HIM. I would like to think it's a disagreement over policy but given the overlap between the death panel-believing crowd and the birthers, I think most of them just don't like a black man as leader of the free world.
3. People who protest and scream about government taking over health care are either completely unaware of how their VA, Medicaid and Medicare are funded (or how much of their own tax dollars fund the uninsured), or they already have health care and don't give a flying fuck about the 40 million others without. And they think they will never get hit by a bus.
4. People who carry around "Death to Obama and his rotten children" signs at town halls meetings are not interested in a dialogue about health care. CNN needs to ignore their asses. And Fox News, which loves any maniac who's against the Democrats, just needs to go away.
5. Obama needs to let Rahm Emanuel off the leash and instead of speaking gently about misunderstandings and misconceptions, just say these death panelists are LIARS WHO ARE FUCKING WITH YOUR IGNORANT HEADS.
08/18/09
08/18/09
Also, are we gonna talk about the CRAZIES bringing guns to obama public meetings as an exercise of their 2nd amendment rights? Those people make me sick and its all so so dangerous.
08/18/09
08/18/09
08/18/09
1. "That's really my standard." Is it just me, or doesn't "standard" imply... standards?
2. She sounds like a crusader, or Paladin if you will. Meaning a crazy psychopath who refers to "the realm." I would have preferred "the Kingdom," but apples to apples.
08/18/09
08/18/09
I need my government to interfere with private, painful family situations involving the end (or beginning) of someone's life. You can't leave these kind of decisions up to just any little ol' woman.
08/18/09
Here, read this one and see if you don't feel better:
[online.wsj.com]
08/18/09
08/18/09
08/18/09
08/18/09