Michael Moore - Jezebel

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willwriteforfood
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
Can I nominate Katie Couric for a COTD?

Also that item about Beyonce made me smile. I guess we have fallen far if a celebrity's decent behavior and care for fellow human beings is an anomaly worth noting but in any case, you go, Beyonce!
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Newsgirl
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
Am I the only person who isn't surprised or upset or bothered about Letterman? What's with all this "I can't believe he had sex with them!" stuff? No one has said this happened while he was married. And, if it comes out that he forced these women to do this or harassed them, that's different. But that doesn't seem to be the case now. Why not put some of this shame toward the CBS News employee who commited an actual crime?
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Edited by Newsgirl at 10/02/09 11:04 AM Newsgirl was starred Newsgirl was unstarred

annebreal
10/02/09

@Newsgirl: The extortionist is the clear bad here, definitely. I mean, what Dave did wasn't okay, because he is a boss, a father, and had a partner (maybe he wasn't married at the time, but hasn't he been with her for like two decades?). The extortionist deserves having the book thrown at him for sure, but Dave's going to have to shake a "dirty old man" reputation for a while. I personally think Dave deserves some fallout for what he did, definitely, but it absolutely didn't need to play out in public like that; it's punishing his family now too.

Of course there's always the possibility that he was in an open relationship, and the affairs he had were completely free of any kind of sexual harassment. Personally, I don't care. I've never liked Letterman, I think his show (and Leno's, too) is played out. This doesn't change my opinion of him at all, and I wasn't shocked.
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Eriu
10/02/09

@annebreal: Barring an open relationship, I don't think it's fair to hold anyone but Dave himself accountable for this playing out in public and punishing his family. He was in the public eye and still chose to do this to them. He's reaping what he sowed. I feel terrible that they have to suffer, but he can only blame himself for that.
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southwer
10/02/09

@Newsgirl: I'm upset that he slept with his working subordinates. As a commenter said at Gawker, there is a reason that is not allowed. The subordinate is less able (or unable) to say no to this person because they control their paycheck. it's really, really unethical, and THAT is the part that grosses me out. Not necessarily cheating, though the deception of one's loved ones is personally repugnant to me - it's the potential abuses of power in those relationships that really upsets me.
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Newsgirl
10/02/09

@Eriu: "I don't think it's fair to hold anyone but Dave himself accountable for this playing out in public and punishing his family. He was in the public eye and still chose to do this to them."

So, you think there is no fault at all to be held by the CBS News employee who commited a crime and brought this to the public eye? It's all David Letterman's fault that the man tried to extort him? Please.
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Newsgirl
10/02/09

@southwer: I understand your point, but I still think that implies that Letterman forced or coerced employees to have sex with him. And like I said, if it turns out that's the case then he should be fired. But is it that far out of the question to think some women who worked for him wanted to sleep with him?
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southwer
10/02/09

@Newsgirl: it's not that far out of the question, and it could very well be the case - but the very relationship itself, that of worker and boss, is a power differential, and immediately taints any idea of a perfectly free choice. For those reasons, his actions were creepy and he should not have slept with his employees.

now, god knows, there is no such thing as perfectly free choice in this world, and power/money differentials always exist in all kinds of relationships. In past discussions on this site, I'm thinking specifically in dicussions on the legalization of prostitution, people talked about similar ideas - specifically that many people who "choose" to go into prostitution (to say nothing of those who are forced or trafficked into it) are not in fact making a free choice at all, that it is economic desperation, addiction, etc., that forces many men and women into prostitution. This is quite true. It is also true that there are men and women who have chosen to go into this work because they want to and love and enjoy it and not because of any economic necessity. Likewise, it is totally possible that these women chose to sleep with him entirely because they wanted to and not because their jobs would be in danger otherwise, but their pre-existing relationship, for me, puts everything in a different light, and not a good one.
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Eriu
10/02/09

@Newsgirl: I think that man should be held accountable for his own actions, but anyone blaming HIM and not DAVID LETTERMAN for Letterman's family being hurt by this is out of their mind. This could've come out in any number of ways and the blame would still be on the same person. When you are in a relationship, it is your responsibility not to do shitty things like this. It is not anyone else's responsibility to keep your shitty things secret. The extortion wasn't right at all, but it isn't what hurt them. The truth did, and that's all Dave.
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Edited by Eriu at 10/02/09 3:02 PM Eriu was starred Eriu was unstarred

wishing upon
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
Was anyone else a little taken aback by the way Dave broke the news to his studio audience last night? He didn't mention why he was being extorted until the end of his story, so during the entire story, the audience is laughing and clapping. By the end, they still didn't really seem to be disturbed by the news at all. Do you all think that was fine or was it missing some dignity?
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Newsgirl promoted this comment Edited by wishing upon at 10/02/09 10:46 AM wishing upon was starred wishing upon was unstarred

Newsgirl
10/02/09

@hollygolightly: I think it was a smart PR move. He admitted everything (except the details I don't think anyone wants to hear really) himself and explained it, and in a lighthearted way that may or may not have been creepy depending on everyone's points of view.
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lalaland13
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
I've always found Dave a bit cranky, albeit endearingly so, and liked that he didn't seem to have much patience for morons. I'm not sure what to make of this. I was sad and a bit disappointed when I heard last night. But I do have to give him credit for just fessing up like he did. I don't know about any other details and am not sure I want or need to. He's an adult. I hope he didn't use his power to get sex from these women, but it's hard to know for sure. It doesn't sound good, but at least he knew when the jig was up. As they say in politics, the cover-up hurts you worse than whatever stupid shit you did to start with.

I will probably still have a soft spot for him, but I've been trying to watch Conan more anyway because Conan is at a different point in his career than Letterman and I feel sorry for him with all this Leno crap. Letterman was beating Conan pretty good before all this, and I wonder if that will still be true.
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formergr
10/02/09

@lalaland13: But he fessed up because he was backed into a corner by an extortion plot. I think it's really interesting how he seems to be getting much more of a pass on this, and even respect, when every time a politician makes such an announcement (even the democratic ones), it's a free for all of criticism and judgment around here of them.

At best, he cheated on his girlfriend with what sounds like more than one woman. At worse, he abused his position of authority.
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ElleL
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
I commend you, Dave. You owned up to your shit, and admitted fault. You should teach a clinic for celebrities.

Now, you better work even harder for your Wife.
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formergr
10/02/09

@ElleL: But he owned up because he was about to be blackmailed and it would have gone public. Is this really so commendable?
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kkatt
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
Single Ladiez with a Z!
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Mrs. Stephen Fry
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
P.S. Liza Minelli + Single Ladies = Possibly the best musical treat EVER.
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Mrs. Stephen Fry
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
I love Letterman. I hate that he had to admit all of this because it is ugly, seedy, and gross. But good for him for just coming clean.

I feel for his wife, too, because clearly a lot of this was going on while he was with her.
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Eriu
10/02/09

@Mrs. Stephen Fry: You hate that he had to admit it because it is ugly, seedy and gross? How about hating that he did it because it is ugly, seedy and gross? You'd rather he have done it but not have to account for it? That is a very strange sentiment to me.
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Newsgirl
10/02/09

@Eriu: I don't understand how him having sex is ugly, seedy and gross. I really don't. No one has said any of this happened while he was married.
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Eriu
10/02/09

@Newsgirl: He's been with his now-wife and mother of his child for over 20 years and living with her for much of that time. He was only on the air, I think, for a few years before that, and I doubt someone would be extorting him for something he did over 23 years ago. That's gross to me. I was also using the original commenter's words. I would probably choose slightly different negative adjectives. My point was only that "hating that he had to admit" something he did that this person found to be "ugly, seedy and gross" was a very strange way to phrase it. Even if you love him, I imagine you don't hate that he had to admit it--you hate that he did it. Or maybe that's just me and my good old fashioned values like honesty.
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Edited by Eriu at 10/02/09 11:11 AM Eriu was starred Eriu was unstarred

Mrs. Stephen Fry
10/02/09

Sleeping with his employees while in a long-term relationship is ugly, seedy, and gross. Did I not make that clear? Hope I have now.

He shouldn't have to air his dirty laundry (no matter how dirty) on an nighttime chat show. It has nothing to do with his program. But he was forced to because some ass tried to blackmail him. He shouldn't have cheated on his girlfriend with his employees in the first place, but he also shouldn't have to talk about it on an entertainment program. His personal life is just that--personal.
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Eriu
10/02/09

@Mrs. Stephen Fry: Well, he didn't have to talk about it on his show. He chose to, albeit under pressure from this guy, which again isn't "fair". But neither is cheating on your significant other, so... karma's a bitch. And again, I don't really feel bad for a celebrity who does something shitty like this and then cries about how it's their personal life. You did it knowing full well that it would be in the news if it got out. Be a big boy and deal with the consequences of your actions.
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Mrs. Stephen Fry promoted this comment Edited by Eriu at 10/02/09 3:07 PM Eriu was starred Eriu was unstarred

Mrs. Stephen Fry
10/02/09

@Eriu: Did you even see the show? He talked about it because the Attorney General's office was releasing information about it today.

Gah. I give up.
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broad
10/03/09

@Eriu: Are you sure you're not confusing Regina with Merill Markoe? He was with HER for a zillion years.
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TheUptightMidwesterner
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
Top 10 Observations About Letterman's Extortion Plot:
10. Somewhere Merrill Markoe is simply shrugging and shaking her head.
09. The shows writers are having a field day with jokes they can never use.
08. Between Conan's head injury and this, Leno is looking a little shady.
07. There are women out there that could have settled this hairpiece mystery once and for all, apparently.
06. We are going to hear a lot more about Letterman in the next few weeks then we ever wanted to know.
05. This is skeeving me out because it is like hearing about my dad having sex.
04. Buttafuco
03. Madonna was on his show just in time, otherwise she would have eaten him alive.
02. Letterman handled it very well, considering.
01. Every horn dog politician and celebrity he had ripped on is giving him the Nelson Munce "HA-ha!" right now.
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Breamworthy
10/02/09

@TheUptightMidwesterner: Ha, well done. My first thought was of Merrill Markoe as well.
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amenfro
10/02/09

@TheUptightMidwesterner: COTD?
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
I sometimes think I'm the only liberal who does not like Michael Moore. Although, I do live in a big documentary town, and almost every documentarian I have met hates him.
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slightlyhardup
10/02/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: Don't worry - I'm a liberal and I can't stand him. I liked his earlier stuff like Roger and Me and TV Nation, but now everything he does just seems formulaic and heavy handed.
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lowkeylo
10/02/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: I actually don't "get" the dislike of him, especially from the people who agree with his message. He seems to be the only leftie out there who is able to use a persona to get an appealing, coherent message to the masses. When you think of all the loud-mouthed shills on the right (Ann Coulter, etc.), he seems a model of subtlety. I just find it incredibly surprising that the left criticizes one of their own for what? Being slightly disingenuine (sorry can't spell that)? Although, granted, the tidbit above is disheartening.
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Eriu
10/02/09

@lowkeylo: I think where we disagree is that his message comes across as "appealing" and "coherent." He's like PETA. They take a good root cause (I'm a vegetarian and animal-rights activist, by the way) and end up turning more people away from it because of their ridiculous antics. They're just yelling and seeking publicity, and it's hurting us, not helping.

On the other hand, I don't quite "get" the sentiment that if you have the same rock-bottom beliefs as someone you have to support the extremity of their beliefs, their delivery and their behavior.
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Edited by Eriu at 10/02/09 10:07 AM Eriu was starred Eriu was unstarred

victoriasauce
10/02/09

@lowkeylo: I like him. Is he perfect? Of course not. Is he well-intentioned, informed, and capable of opening people's eyes? Definitely.

Calling him our Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter doesn't fit because they spread lies. Completely made-up bullshit. Not exaggerations to make a good point.

Edit: The above tidbit may be disheartening, but he does provide his employees with full heath coverage. They have ZERO deductible and are allowed as many sick days as they need.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
10/02/09

@lowkeylo: He actually does have a history of mistreating his employees, which is one of the reasons why I don't like him. And from the documentary industry's standpoint, he is completely manipulative and dishonest ("he has no integrity" is the phrase I hear over and over again from other filmmakers). He also makes filmmaking much more difficult for other documentarians. People assume that all documentarians are like Michael Moore and often refuse to be interviewed because they are afraid their words will be distorted by the filmmakers.

I have worked on a few documentaries over the past few years and I have come to realize that a good documentary should not only educate, but inspire people to learn more about the subject and, in the case of social justice docs, to action. Michael Moore's films don't do that. He preaches to the choir, and antagonizes and alienates the people who actually need to hear his message.
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lowkeylo
10/02/09

@Eriu: I respectfully disagree. I worked at a library that was in a very low-income part of town, primarily African American, and my patrons LOVED Michael Moore and requested him even if they weren't particularly readers. In fact, he has been EXTREMELY popular in all the public libraries I worked in. I honestly think Sicko is a big factor in why we are having the heath insurance debates now. Also, I just don't understand how, when the other side has people like Glen Beck, we can criticize Michael Moore! Really, I just don't think there's any comparison...
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lowkeylo
10/02/09

@lowkeylo: Oh, and! You know people on the right think someone like Rush Limbaugh is a big ole blowhard idiot, but they don't say it! They laugh all the way to victory. Us lefties need to take a cue there.
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victoriasauce
10/02/09

@lowkeylo: Democrats cause more harm to the party than Republicans. It's quite depressing.

They unite behind horrible ideas. If only we could do the same with our good ones!
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Eriu
10/02/09

@lowkeylo: I'm sorry but I don't really understand your point about libraries or low-income African Americans. I didn't say he isn't popular, or that nobody likes him. I just don't think he's capable of changing anyone's mind. He is like Glenn Beck in his behavior, though I concede to victoriasauce's point that he is unlike him in terms of truthfulness. However, neither of you have responded to the PETA analogy, which is perfect. Frankly, I don't understand why we shouldn't criticize people on our own side who are doing us a disservice. Because I am liberal I have to agree with the behavior of every single other liberal on the planet? He does more harm than good. It may be cathartic for people who already agree with him, but he is polarizing for people who don't quite know where they stand, or who already disagree, which is not what we need.
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victoriasauce
10/02/09

@Eriu: Michael Moore isn't like PETA because PETA does things that are completely unrelated to animals. Moore may push the limits, but he does it to prove a point and to inform. PETA is a ridiculous sideshow that likes attracting attention for the sake of being talked about. I think they've forgotten their own purpose by now. I can't say the same for Moore. He has a point he wants to get across and he does what he needs to do in order to accomplish that. He's not prancing around naked and calling it pro-healthcare.
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Eriu
10/02/09

@victoriasauce: "PETA is a ridiculous sideshow that likes attracting attention for the sake of being talked about."

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, as I find this statement completely accurate if you replace PETA with Michael Moore. No, he doesn't use nudity. Instead, he stages fake crime scenes. Same shit, different pile.

Can you give some evidence for your claim that PETA has "forgotten their own purpose"? That's a pretty vague cop-out. I immensely dislike Ingrid Newkirk, but I see no reason to doubt her insane commitment to her cause. She's just out of her gourd, and doesn't give a shit what anyone else thinks. She'll do what she wants while refusing to question the consequences. Again, same shit.
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lowkeylo
10/02/09

@Eriu: Okay, let me clarify my confusing comment. I thought when you wrote that "he preaches to the choir," that you were referring to some elite group of liberal arts grads or Jezebels or something, and what I'm saying is, he actually has very broad appeal and we have no idea if there aren't groups of Americans out there that aren't having their minds changed by him. And, if we on the left criticize him, that just adds weight to the dismissal he is given by, say, Fox News, which allows people to dismiss him who maybe need to hear him out. I don't think he is doing our side a disservice-- not with his tremendous popularity. And yes, I'm sorry, but in a way I think liberals DO need to support other liberals if they are getting our message out there. We really lose sight of the fucking forest for the trees! The right plays dirty, and we are going to forever be big ole LOSERS if we keep splitting hairs.
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Eriu
10/02/09

@lowkeylo: Well, there are plenty of liberal idiots who I'm not going to support. I'm not a slave to any cause. My principles are more important to me than that. This argument sounds exactly like "You can't criticize any woman if you're a feminist!" I think it is GOOD for any group to point out their most loud and extreme components and say "That is not us." Groups are labeled by these people, which is why feminists get such a bad rap. I don't hate the guy. I've even considered seeing his new movie. I just think, as others have said, that he's doing us more harm than good, and I'm not going to pretend I feel otherwise.
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Rare Affinity
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
How ironic. On the same day People headline Britney’s desire to buy a parakeet, it is announced in the UK that it is now legal to shoot wild ones as a pest. I hope she never brings her pet to these shores in case someone takes a pot shot at it.

[www.timesonline.co.uk]
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funzette
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
Mr. Letterman,
I know how you feel. It'll blow over, but they won't ever let you be president, those moralistic clowns. You did the right thing.
Yours,
Alexander Hamilton

PS: If someone challenges you to a duel, just say no.
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LaComtesse
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
Katie Couric, why you gotta make me love you like that?

And Liza Minelli singing Beyonce?! Oh how grand!
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Triana Orpheus
10/02/09

@LaComtesse: By the time this movie comes out, that song will be so old. I love SATC, but this movie sounds awful.
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sallysparrow
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
I would much rather see Liza Minnelli do "Single Ladies" in an Arrested Development movie.
Lucille2 forever!
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angryblackgurl
10/02/09

In reply to Letterman In "Sextortion" Plot; Kanye & Gaga's Tour Canceled
I am wondering how many staffers David Letterman had sex with, and in what time frame?? Normally you try to not indulge with co-workers, but if he slept with over I say "5" that is a bit much...to say the least awkward.

Did Dr. Murray lie previously about the drugs he stated he administered before he resorted to the deadly drip???
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