I really hope everyone here with a wonderful father (or even an okay father. Or even a father) shows him some love and appreciation on Father's Day (well, every day for that matter)! I'll probably read that article in Parade this Sunday and reduce myself to a blubbering mess.
This is also the thing that no one ever talks about: women who are too laid-back and casual around kids get tagged as non-nurturing and incompetent. I have a wonderful father. Everytime we talk on the phone he ends the conversation with "I love you. I admire you as a person and I respect your opinion and your ability to make decisions very much. I trust you. I respect your thinking. I'm proud of you." He's a very involved dad and not laid back at all. He stays up nights worrying about us. His personality is actually a lot more "involved" than my mother. But this isn't because my mother is somehow a bad mother or a lackadaisical, ill-bred woman it's because my father is a lot more neurotic and pessimistic about outcomes personality-wise.
And now that i'm older I regret so much that I went even a day thinking my mother didn't love me (because she didn't fuss over me and burst into tears when I was hurt like other Ghanaian mothers did) because she did. She so did. And she does. She's just a lot more calm personality-wise. When I was ill she left the only country she's ever lived in and moved to a strange country for six months to deal with doctors and insurance and surgeries and general hell. I saw her cry in that time period only once. And it was behind a curtain, when she thought I couldn't see her! But after I was well she took her braids extensions out and every strand of her natural hair had turned stark white.
I'm blessed to have two phenomenal parents and people have always been envious of my dad and the relationship I have with him. But my mother is the rock of our family. And now, that i'm older and see the pressure that women face to only nurture in a particular, socially-accepted, pseudo-hysterical mother I know that my mother not freaking out when I was hurt as a child, or not letting me sleep in her bed at 10 if I wasn't really scared, or not buying me humongous elaborate gifts for my birthday was not in any way because she was cold or she didn't know how to love. It was because my dad was so overboard in his expressions of love that she needed to be the one to teach us BALANCE.
And if she had been a weaker woman and not as amazingly secure in herself as she was she totally would have let everyone's sniping about how laid-back she was turn her into some over-compensating crazy person.
Being a father is not an easy job but the one advantage it has over mothering if that you are a phenomenal father the entire world notices and wreaths are laid at your feet and ululations are done in your name. If you're a phenomenal mother it is simply seen as your duty, something you do as a matter of course. Your mistakes are never forgiven, and your amazingness is taken for granted.
My father is a great man. And I'm eternally grateful for the strength of our bond. But the more I grow up the more I realize the measure of human being my mother is. My father might have taught me how to make someone feel loved, and how to fuss over someone. But sometimes my father's degree of confidence in me made me too scared of disappointing him to let myself fail or be exposed before him as less than his expectations. My mother taught me how to respect people enough to just let them be sometimes, she taught me how to simply be there for someone. And more importantly I learn daily from her how to be so calm and non-judgmental that there is nothing your children can never come to you with.
My fiance is a single dad. Both he and the girl's mother are very much involved in her life. They divorced when she was one year old, and as almost a matter of course they gave 6 nights a week to the mom, and 1 to my fiance. He was heartbroken. Now she's 5 and the overnights are equally split (for every year she got older, he got one more overnight with her until she turned 5). He loves his little girl more than anything, and it was an understanding going into the relationship that should I make it some kind of situation where he had to choose between me or her, it was automatically going to be her. Honestly, I wouldn't respect him if he'd thought otherwise. It's why I moved 1000 miles to be with him instead of the other way around.
Part of my attraction to him was based on the amount of love, involvement, and support that he gives his child. His ex-wife definitely feels he falls short because he doesn't enroll her in lots of programs or take her to constantly do events and "playdates"* and such, and it irks me, because I see them being so happy together by just playing board games, playing with the dog, coloring, and sometimes going to movies or putt-putt. So in THIS way he's laid back, because he doesn't care about good of a parent he APPEARS to be -- he just wants to be a good parent to his daughter.
*I despise the word playdate. It's called playing. Sometimes with friends. Does everything need to be a yuppified social activity! They're 5! Geez.
I'm just jealous that Barack Obama isn't my dad. I didn't even MEET my dad until I was a teenager and he never paid child support. So my whole life I've daydreamed about what a cool dad would be like and Obama has it written all over him.
Also why in most cases do Dads get to be the laid back parent/good cop while women get to be the bad cop. It just shows how in most cases women have to take on the more tedious/less glamourous side of parenting while guys get to take the kids out for ice cream and all the fun stuff. That's not fair on either parent as it could create tension as there's an uneven distribution of work so i'm not sure about heaping praise on laid back dads.
@Eric Northman is mine: This is exactly it. If anything, I'd like to see more dads who are a little bit more concerned, a little more involved, than dads who act like laid-back stereotypical doofs and let the moms do all the dirty work.
If a dad is really hands-on and doing the difficult stuff--handling the temper tantrums, the endless household tasks, the dirt, the grime, the diapers, the wailing in the wee hours--he's probably more likely to be involved, concerned, and fully aware of his child's life. No, it doesn't mean that he has to be uptight and humorless, but it means he's less likely to be the parent who only shows up for baseball and sunshine and ice cream. And if the dad is putting in 110% and sharing his equal part of the childrearing work, the mom is less likely to be the frazzled, harried, worried, overworked type.
I think the "laid back dad" trope overlooks the fact that too many moms don't have the luxury of being laid-back, because they're saddled with a disproportionate amount of work.
@tscheese: "I think the "laid back dad" trope overlooks the fact that too many moms don't have the luxury of being laid-back, because they're saddled with a disproportionate amount of work."
When I hear expressions like "laid-back parent" I always think about the million things that you have to take care of on a daily basis... from breakfast to dinner to clothing to following school education to after school sports to friendships blossoming to character building.... you simply can't afford to be that much laid back, unless someone is doing the worrying and hard working for you...
just being there for your child's growth implies a fairly large amount of worries, at least in my experience.
But then, again, I'm a woman. I can't be laid back, right? that's a man's prerogative, right?
I adore reading about our President's relationship with his family. I really do believe he is a father first and foremost, and that's awesome. Knowing how committed he is to being a good parent makes me so happy for his daughters, because not all of us were so lucky as kids. So that's great. BUT. I'm annoyed with this whole "Bad Mommy" thing. I'm not a mom yet, but I nonetheless take offense to the suggestion that all moms need to chill out with the competition and concentrate more on being a decent parent. WTF. Not every mother feels like she has to be better than everyone else at raising her kids. Not every mother is running herself, and her kids, ragged while desperately attempting to achieve some sort of #1 mom award. Not every mother is too busy arranging playdates and school interviews and Mommy-And-Me yoga classes to play in the sandbox with her kidlets. Not every mother spends hours poring over macrobiotic recipes to prepare for her kid so he's perfectly pure and his poops are organic or whatever. Not every mother thinks her kid is that special snowflake who's better and more important than anyone else's kid. AND! Not every dad is the type who lets his kid's mom do all the work while he laughs at his own parenting ignorance and haplessly follows her lead. Not every dad freaks out at the prospect of having to "watch" the kids by himself. Christ. Why does everything nowadays have to be some sort of battle? Like who can do it better, who cares more about her kid, etc? Generalizations like this, like suggestions to all women to stop comparing themselves to every other mom on the block, piss me off. Hi! Not everyone is like that. Some people don't need parenting advice from some smug so-and-so explaining how to not wreck your kid. Some people don't happen to give a flying fuck what the other moms are doing. Some people are happy to parent their own way and not try to adhere to some generic formula. Sorry to be ranty, and I'm not a parent or an expert, but I had the privilege of being raised by an awesome mom who let me play outside all day and eat dirt and race my wagon down the alley with all the other kids. And I turned out just fine. Which is exactly why I plan on being the anti-plastic bubble mom. And those other moms at the playground can suck it.
My husband, while approaching impending fatherhood with a lot of fear, immaturity and resentment, has somehow managed to turn into a remarkable dad. He told me that he though about it when Kid (tm) was a baby and decided that he didn't want our son to grow up to be afraid of him , or uneasy around him because he was never around (as had happened with his father).
Instinctive? Please. Girls are given baby dolls from birth. I've been babysitting since I was 12, camp-counseling since I was 13, tutoring since I was 15, and doing everything you can think of for my 9 (dear god, almost 10)-year-old brother since the day he was born. I have been training for motherhood for over a decade. Because, unless they actively avoid it, this is what happens to girls.
That said: thanks, Daddio, for being the best Dad *and* Mom anyone could possibly ask for, and thanks mrteenwordpower, for all your inevitable future kickassedness in the field of parenting.
@missteenwordpower can haz star?: And to add to that, my dad describes parenthood as something entirely instinctual- he says that as soon as he found out my mom was pregnant with me (I was the first), and then moreso when he saw me for the first time, his entire world changed. He describes it as something innate and inevitable and great, and I've always gotten the feeling that fatherhood, and involved fatherhood, was instinctual for him.
@missteenwordpower can haz star?: Seriously. The only reason I know how to make macaroni and cheese with one hand while balancing a toddler on my hip with the other arm is because I spent my summmers babysitting when I was 13 years old.
In the very, very, VERY distant and nebulous future, I might be with someone with whom I'd want to reproduce. I don't know yet, though; I'm pretty unsure on the topic of kids.
One of the reasons for this is this: Should I ever have some hypothetical kid, I'm almost 100% sure that the father of that kid wouldn't put equal effort into the care and upbringing of that child.
I know some very progressive, educated, very cool couples in which both parents work full-time to pay the bills and the mortgage. Even among these folks, childcare still falls disproportionately on the mother. Even when she's the primary breadwinner, even when her career obligations involve long hours, no matter how busy she is -- it still seems pretty rare for dads to step up and shoulder a solid 50% of childcare.
Now, that's not to say that dads never do step up-- there are a lot of great dads out there, and mine is one of them --but it just seems that there's a societal insistence that the mother shoulders the vast majority of the burden of childcare. And if a dad is the primary caregiver, even if he does a fantastic job, he may face derision for being a "freeloader" or a "Mr. Mom" or whatever.
I think the face of this landscape is changing, but slowly. Since dual income is not just a luxury but a necessity, I think more and more people are realizing that dads need to parent just as much as moms, and not just play "babysitter." But I'm pretty sure my ovaries will be long dried-up and/or buried by the time this dynamic really and truly shifts.
I'm sorry if this sounds cynical. I know there are some fantastic dads out there who give 110%, and I'm glad you're raising the next generation of sons and daughters. It's just something that gives me pause, is all.
@tscheese: Yeah, I think one reason it's so easy for men to say they want kids is because when push comes to shove, chances are the mom will be the one to get the call from the school to come pick up her puking kid, or whatever. It's like they assume moms want to do all that and don't trust dads with that. And in some cases (hi mom) that's true. I always felt like my mom was a bit more compassionate and tender when I was growing up. Yet she could also discipline me-I don't think I ever got spanked by my dad.
To vastly oversimplify this, in my case, my dad makes me shy away from being a parent because he damaged his kids a bit. My mom makes me want to be a parent because she's so awesome, yet also makes me run away screaming in fear because how could I ever live up to that?
I persoanlly think that kids benefit from having their Dad being more laid back and their mom a little less so (or vice versa). It means they get someone who always makes sure everything is okay ("SEE! I KNEW it was a fungal infection!") and also someone to go and encourage them to be fearless on the jungle gym. It can be a nice balance.
Obvs everyone's different, but as a generalised thing it can be nice.
@applejuice: I said something about this in a different thread, but I could not disagree more. This leads to a lot of crazy-making for moms, and dad always gets to BE chill, and mom is always told chill OUT.
@applejuice: I think the "OR VICE VERSA" distinction is important here. I think it's a good thing if there's a mix. Obviously, everyone has a different personality, and if one parent encourages a kid to try new things and one parent tends to advise caution, then kids will probably develop a more nuanced view of reasoning, planning, assessing risk, etc.
My dad was always the more conservative, straight-and-narrow stickler and my mom was always the one who encouraged novelty and adventure. But my dad is also a very level-headed, diplomatic, cool and collected calm type, and my mom is also the one more likely to worry, get frazzled, speak bluntly/passionately.
Each is simultaneously strict and laid-back in their own way, and it really made me who I am today. If I need to get in someones' face and get assertive and speak my mind, I think of my mom. If I need to treat a situation with cool reserve, and talk my way through something with tact, I think of my dad.
@applejuice: I'm no advocating ANYONE being a total uptight nutso. I was just saying sometimes one parent doesn't worry ENOUGH about certain things, and it is nice to have someone who will pick up the slack in that area, or vice versa, if one parent is too worried to let the kids up high on the jungle gym it is nice if the other parent can cope with that better. Not advocating either parent having to be the "bad cop" all the time.
It was just a generalisation (bad!) and I figured people would take it the wrong way. Just saying it is nice to have checks and balances so to speak!
It's really interesting, to me, that Obama did not have a good father (or really a father at all) and that he turned out to be so balanced, intelligent and thoughtful. I also think it is interesting that so many actors and famous people did not have strong father figures (Ever watched 'Inside the Actors' Studio?). It's like, and maybe I'm being overbroad and generalizing about this, they are seeking out approval from some proverbial father figure or something.
@dancerevolution: If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend Dreams of My Father. It is really, really good - it would be a good book even if Obama was just some random dude writing a memoir (which technically, he was - he wrote it before anyone knew who he was), and it shows how he questioned and explored and grew - something too few of us do regardless of fame or fortune.
@dreamweave: i recently read an article on how genius/extremely high levels of success are achieved in individuals and there is very often some sort of tragedy, loss, struggle or broken home scenario in these exceptional people's lives that pushes them that extra inch (mile and a half?) over someone who has never had to struggle or suffer in their life... i could see that correlating here.
@dancerevolution: My dad's legal father divorced my grandmother when my dad was five, and it's definitely affected his parenting skills. Honestly, my dad tried to parent like Cliff Huxtable. And it worked out fine for me. He was definitely laid-back, but expected me to push myself to be the best I could be, and he didn't take shit.
I can't wait to watch my husband become a father someday. I'm actually a lot more excited about that than becoming a mom myself. I'm afraid of motherhood, but I have zero fears for him - I know he is going to be a kick ass dad for are kids, and an awesome partner for me.
@SmallbutMighty: That's how I feel about Mr. Ipomoea. His mom had a baby when he was 18, so he's had a trial run at infant care, whereas I never did. One of his friends just had a baby last week and he e-mailed me the pictures and was like "LOOK AT HER! SHE'S BEAUTIFUL! ZOMG!" I have no fear for him, because I'm too busy reserving it all for myself.
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And now that i'm older I regret so much that I went even a day thinking my mother didn't love me (because she didn't fuss over me and burst into tears when I was hurt like other Ghanaian mothers did) because she did. She so did. And she does. She's just a lot more calm personality-wise. When I was ill she left the only country she's ever lived in and moved to a strange country for six months to deal with doctors and insurance and surgeries and general hell. I saw her cry in that time period only once. And it was behind a curtain, when she thought I couldn't see her! But after I was well she took her braids extensions out and every strand of her natural hair had turned stark white.
I'm blessed to have two phenomenal parents and people have always been envious of my dad and the relationship I have with him. But my mother is the rock of our family. And now, that i'm older and see the pressure that women face to only nurture in a particular, socially-accepted, pseudo-hysterical mother I know that my mother not freaking out when I was hurt as a child, or not letting me sleep in her bed at 10 if I wasn't really scared, or not buying me humongous elaborate gifts for my birthday was not in any way because she was cold or she didn't know how to love. It was because my dad was so overboard in his expressions of love that she needed to be the one to teach us BALANCE.
And if she had been a weaker woman and not as amazingly secure in herself as she was she totally would have let everyone's sniping about how laid-back she was turn her into some over-compensating crazy person.
Being a father is not an easy job but the one advantage it has over mothering if that you are a phenomenal father the entire world notices and wreaths are laid at your feet and ululations are done in your name. If you're a phenomenal mother it is simply seen as your duty, something you do as a matter of course. Your mistakes are never forgiven, and your amazingness is taken for granted.
My father is a great man. And I'm eternally grateful for the strength of our bond. But the more I grow up the more I realize the measure of human being my mother is. My father might have taught me how to make someone feel loved, and how to fuss over someone. But sometimes my father's degree of confidence in me made me too scared of disappointing him to let myself fail or be exposed before him as less than his expectations. My mother taught me how to respect people enough to just let them be sometimes, she taught me how to simply be there for someone. And more importantly I learn daily from her how to be so calm and non-judgmental that there is nothing your children can never come to you with.
That lesson is worth its weight in gold.
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06/19/09
Part of my attraction to him was based on the amount of love, involvement, and support that he gives his child. His ex-wife definitely feels he falls short because he doesn't enroll her in lots of programs or take her to constantly do events and "playdates"* and such, and it irks me, because I see them being so happy together by just playing board games, playing with the dog, coloring, and sometimes going to movies or putt-putt. So in THIS way he's laid back, because he doesn't care about good of a parent he APPEARS to be -- he just wants to be a good parent to his daughter.
*I despise the word playdate. It's called playing. Sometimes with friends. Does everything need to be a yuppified social activity! They're 5! Geez.
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Oh and...
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If a dad is really hands-on and doing the difficult stuff--handling the temper tantrums, the endless household tasks, the dirt, the grime, the diapers, the wailing in the wee hours--he's probably more likely to be involved, concerned, and fully aware of his child's life. No, it doesn't mean that he has to be uptight and humorless, but it means he's less likely to be the parent who only shows up for baseball and sunshine and ice cream. And if the dad is putting in 110% and sharing his equal part of the childrearing work, the mom is less likely to be the frazzled, harried, worried, overworked type.
I think the "laid back dad" trope overlooks the fact that too many moms don't have the luxury of being laid-back, because they're saddled with a disproportionate amount of work.
06/19/09
DING DING DING; couldn't have said it better.
06/19/09
just being there for your child's growth implies a fairly large amount of worries, at least in my experience.
But then, again, I'm a woman. I can't be laid back, right? that's a man's prerogative, right?
06/19/09
Being able to be a laid-back parent is a luxury. It's the luxury that usually falls onto the dads.
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I hope to be a I-don't-give-a-shit-about-the-other-moms type mom someday. :)
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06/19/09
That said: thanks, Daddio, for being the best Dad *and* Mom anyone could possibly ask for, and thanks mrteenwordpower, for all your inevitable future kickassedness in the field of parenting.
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06/20/09
Instinctual, my ass.
06/19/09
One of the reasons for this is this: Should I ever have some hypothetical kid, I'm almost 100% sure that the father of that kid wouldn't put equal effort into the care and upbringing of that child.
I know some very progressive, educated, very cool couples in which both parents work full-time to pay the bills and the mortgage. Even among these folks, childcare still falls disproportionately on the mother. Even when she's the primary breadwinner, even when her career obligations involve long hours, no matter how busy she is -- it still seems pretty rare for dads to step up and shoulder a solid 50% of childcare.
Now, that's not to say that dads never do step up-- there are a lot of great dads out there, and mine is one of them --but it just seems that there's a societal insistence that the mother shoulders the vast majority of the burden of childcare. And if a dad is the primary caregiver, even if he does a fantastic job, he may face derision for being a "freeloader" or a "Mr. Mom" or whatever.
I think the face of this landscape is changing, but slowly. Since dual income is not just a luxury but a necessity, I think more and more people are realizing that dads need to parent just as much as moms, and not just play "babysitter." But I'm pretty sure my ovaries will be long dried-up and/or buried by the time this dynamic really and truly shifts.
I'm sorry if this sounds cynical. I know there are some fantastic dads out there who give 110%, and I'm glad you're raising the next generation of sons and daughters. It's just something that gives me pause, is all.
06/19/09
To vastly oversimplify this, in my case, my dad makes me shy away from being a parent because he damaged his kids a bit. My mom makes me want to be a parent because she's so awesome, yet also makes me run away screaming in fear because how could I ever live up to that?
06/19/09
Obvs everyone's different, but as a generalised thing it can be nice.
06/19/09
06/19/09
My dad was always the more conservative, straight-and-narrow stickler and my mom was always the one who encouraged novelty and adventure. But my dad is also a very level-headed, diplomatic, cool and collected calm type, and my mom is also the one more likely to worry, get frazzled, speak bluntly/passionately.
Each is simultaneously strict and laid-back in their own way, and it really made me who I am today. If I need to get in someones' face and get assertive and speak my mind, I think of my mom. If I need to treat a situation with cool reserve, and talk my way through something with tact, I think of my dad.
06/19/09
It was just a generalisation (bad!) and I figured people would take it the wrong way. Just saying it is nice to have checks and balances so to speak!
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