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Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"

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boxspelunker
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
That kind of thinking drives me fucking nuts. "Oh, tee hee, I'm a lowly man and all the LADIES are telling me what to do! Tee hee!" AUGH I CAN'T EVEN PUT INTO WORDS WHAT THAT SOUNDS LIKE. Seriously!

This is objectification. Well, I think it is. These kinda of people don't regard women (or whatever group they're fetishizing and waxing poetic about) as "real" people, but as a stereotype. Like lucystrawberry so brilliantly played, it's just self-aggrandization and such utter crap.

Oh, women! They are so full of spirit and life! And everything they do is magical, even the bad stuff! It's so fucking whimsical!

argh italics burst, sorry.
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Dogtanian
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
I watched this for the first time last night.

'Twas crap.

Lots of dialogue, none of it even slightly how real people actually talk.

They should have spent the money on buying the rights to Big Love instead, which is not shown in the U.K

If anyone could tell me how i could get my hands on Season 3, please PM me.

Please!
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DexterHaven
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
Oh God, Mistresses really is a big pile of shite. I watched last season as it's set in Bristol, where I live, and it's fun to see the fabulously unrealistic lifestyles these women have. But there was a tipping point for my friend and me watching it: the ridiculous story about the doctor who was being hauled before a tribunal with the risk of being struck off for helping her ex-lover die and sleeping with his son. She was all 'oh dear, this is a bit shit, I hope [ex-lover's son] doesn't hate me' or some such shit, and we just couldn't get our heads around the idea that total professional disgrace was something to be shrugged off. I know, I know, light drama whateva, but it hit a real nerve with me, because I think it's really rare that dramas actually acknowledge the role that work has in women's lives - unless they're workplace dramas like ER etc where the workplace is the focus. You know, women talk about their jobs a lot with each other, maybe - gasp - even more than we talk about shoes or cake.
God, that was long. I had no idea I had such strong feelings about Mistresses till now.
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Safiya
02/18/09

@DexterHaven: I've never seen this show, but I really agree with what you're saying here. I think it's this weird misconception that women who aren't doctors/lawyers/[insert SERIOUS, HIGHLY RESPECTED JOB here] aren't deeply involved in their work. My girlfriends and I may not be saving the world, nor earning heaping piles of socially validating money; but who we are is deeply entrenched with what we do. Being dumped or having a sick/dying child aren't the only dramas women have to deal with. What about feeling underutilized at your job? Toxic coworkers? Professional conflict and/or humiliation? Work-related issues MATTER to so many women. Caring about family and relationships and caring about work is not mutually exclusive. Um, duh.

Can you tell this bothers me? (My boyfriend, who out-earns me threefold, cannot conceil his boredom when I talk about work. Yet I know so much about his esoteric technical field by now I could work for his company. Somebody shoot me, plz?)
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DexterHaven
02/19/09

@Safiya: Absolutely! I've always had a big bugbear about this, because I think most shows or films never engage with the minutiae of the way women talk to each other, or acknowledge that often husbands/boyfriends/why can't I get a man? discussions are a really small part of those conversations.

I also hate the shorthand of having female characters in successful professional jobs without ever showing the reality of those jobs to someone's life. So in Mistresses, one is a doctor, another a lawyer, both high powered, but able to spend all their time fannying around sleeping with umpteen blokes and having lunch.
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Dodgergirl
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
I really appreciate Wadlow's sentiment, but I think it's important to remember that the problem isn't that there are men who write female characters, the problem is when ONLY men get these types of opportunities to write and create, it leads a very one-sided look at women.

Diversity behind the scenes-- racial and gender diversity-- helps create diversity in front of the camera. Plus, it means there will be a wider range of interesting characters, and that's good for everyone.
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Ailatan
02/18/09

@Dodgergirl: Well said. While I was reading this is I remembered A room of one's own by Virginia Woolf, and there is a section in this lecture/fiction/monologue in which she talks about the milion writings there are of men on women, and how we, women, have to read ourselves and their perceptions in their works.

Sorry if my response is not very articulate. But I agree that we need different voices, and not just one point of view.
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Pantani
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
Sorry, but what is he talking about? I don't mind having my ego flattered, especially when I didn't have to do anything to deserve it, but this doesn't ring true at all.

I know a lot of men who love women they know and also think about sex a lot, but almost none who seem to obsess over the essence of womanhood. If he wants to write about how he admires women, he can drop the hyperbole and also acknowledge that, no, we don't run everything just because men will do stupid things just to have sex with us.
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Penny
02/18/09

@Pantani: I would be worried if a man was trying to worry about my essence.

And, empathy and obsession are.....very different.

This whole thing makes me feel weird, and I am having trouble pin-pointing why (although I think Lucy summed it up well).
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Pantani
02/18/09

@Penny Plastic:

I think it's because he comes close to fetishizing femininity, which is something men have been doing forever, but never gave us any real power.

Like nowadays, men fetishize feet or leather or certain races, but they used to treat the entire gender the same way because they were turned on by femaleness, irrespective of the individual.

I don't think I'm expressing this clearly though, because it just occurred to me recently while watching Mad Men or something.
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Jack_Burton
02/19/09

@Pantani: Are you hinting that he's moving towards a little TV/TS action, here?

Or that he's "trying it on for size" mentally?
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Rare Affinity
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
The mind boggles what the plotlines will be this series. Last season: the bisexual mistress falls for the gay woman whose wedding she is planning;the euthanasia doctor mistress helps her lover to die and then dates his son; the 9/11 widow discovers that her husband is actually still alive and living with his mistress and now wants a cut of the insurance money; the mistress who ends up accidentally mistress pregnant by her lover after failing to conceive with her sterile husband, who does not realise that he is sterile until after her conception.
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lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black
02/18/09

@Rare Affinity: Wait, did i just get punked? ashton?
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Rare Affinity
02/18/09

@lucystrawberry has a vagina like a ghost: A genuine description of the plot-lines. Ridiculous but somewhat compelling none the less.
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lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
i TOTALLY agree with him, and also i feel the same way. Sometimes at work I am the only white person there...and the spirituality and soulfulness, the humor and the rhythm, good GOD the rhythm of these people is just inspiring. Basically I just do whatever those Blacks tell me to do because isn't that just a fun and kicky way to subvert the normal order of things? Aren't I so enlightened? No seriously don't you find me shockingly sensitive? Aren't you impressed with me? Do you love me? Tell me you love me. WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME???
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
02/18/09

@lucystrawberry has a vagina like a ghost: I think the Black People should give you some kind of award.
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Penny
02/18/09

@lucystrawberry has a vagina like a ghost: Awesome.
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schlegs84
02/18/09

@lucystrawberry has a vagina like a ghost: *begins slow clap* Well played.
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lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black
02/18/09

@BrutallyHonestZombies: Preferably an NAACP image award. That's really what I think my progressive philosophy really deserves. And I want it to be presented to me by Will Smith, Halle Berry and Whoopi Goldberg, who will be smiling and nodding with tears in her eyes while whispering "Thank you. Thank you."
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Penny
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
Most men I know, even the gay ones, are obsessed with women.

I take it we're meant to take "obsessed" in a positive way?

I have less of a problem with a man writing about a woman's perspective (hell, as Cunningham showed us, it's possible) and more of an issue with simplistic breaking down of female life.
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Hamsterpants
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
Eh, he's just trying to get laid. I'll bet he's sensitive, caring and likes long walks on the beach at sunset too. And he thinks sometimes cuddling is enough.
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ihateyourescalade
02/18/09

@Hamsterpants: Ha! And he won't come in your mouth.
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ihateyourescalade
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
Sorry, but I disagree about Emma Bovary.
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Ailatan
02/18/09

@ihateyourescalade: disagree away, tell us your point of view.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
This women-really-run-the-world stuff is pretty tired, and it's also a way for men to curry favor with women without supporting any changes to the status quo.

Yes! Thank you! This little bit of fiction makes my blood boil. Saying crap like that is not a way to engender yourself to me - it's a way to make me think you're full of shit.
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Ailatan
02/18/09

@BrutallyHonestZombies: I think it's more, at least here, a sort of "Yeah, I'm hen-pecked, Oh Poor me!" and it is really irritating.
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vamusical
02/18/09

@BrutallyHonestZombies: I'm glad no one has ever said this to me, because I would probably break something. Yeah, we're so good at running the world that we pay ourselves 70% what we pay you guys! Aren't we NOBLE?!?
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
02/18/09

@Ailatan: Yes, true. It's also akin to the "oh noes white poeple are oppressed in these terrible modern times" bullshit, in my opinion.
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DangerMouse
02/18/09

@BrutallyHonestZombies: Even if, hypothetically, we are running the world, we are certainly not getting the credit for it.
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shorty63136
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
Is that Neela from E.R. on the left? Or does she just look like her?

But I think that being obsessed about women doesn't give you qualifications to write about women - or your perception of women. Just like those "panelists" in that clip about body image didn't have the right to be up on that stage spouting off at the mouth like they did.
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ladyM2000
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
"I am a man who largely does as he's told (which not only reflects the reality of the rest of my life, but that of most men I know)."

Geez, so who exactly are the men he knows?
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rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny
02/18/09

@ladyM2000: That was my thought as well, just who is this man associating with that they don't think for themselves or think about things other than women?
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TexasCrude
02/18/09

In reply to Male Writer Likes Women's "Soul And Strength, Toughness And Vulnerability"
I feel like these days, I could a man's view over a woman's in a chick flick (see Bride Wars). He's got his head in the right place, I really like this sentiment. It isn't condescending.

Now apply to Judd Apatow.
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