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New York, 9:01 PM
Tue Dec 8
71 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of tiredfairy tiredfairy
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    I actually really like her. She has a sense of humor about herself, has not to my knowledge ever said any of the things the article does, so I can't blame her for it...and I think she was wonderful in Atonement and Pride & Prejudice. She's got more than one expression, it's just fashion shoots don't want that. They never do. She calls it her "constipated" look.
     Reply
    tiredfairy was starred tiredfairy was unstarred
    Image of randomnessish randomnessish
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    I'm sorry, did Freud write this article? I was too busy being jealous of Kiera Knightley's overacting through clenched jaws.
     Reply
    randomnessish was starred randomnessish was unstarred
    Image of Sarah Dove Sarah Dove
    12/07/09

    @randomnessish: She has to keep them clenched and her lips pursed, or the spiders get out. Keira Knightley is full of spiders. In Pirates of the Caribbean 3: At World's End one of them bit Chow Yun-Fat on the lip during the scene when his character forcefully kisses hers, which is why he looks so authentically startled when he draws back, but they CG'd its legs and mandibles out of the picture.

    This is why I don't like her, jeez. Occam's Razor.
     Reply
    randomnessish promoted this comment Sarah Dove was starred Sarah Dove was unstarred
    Image of randomnessish randomnessish
    02:18 AM

    @Sarah Dove: I KNEW IT. Spiders. Makes perfect sense.

    I AM JEALOUS OF KIERA KNIGHTLEY'S MOUTH SPIDERS.
     Reply
    randomnessish was starred randomnessish was unstarred
    Image of KATE! KATE!
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    Kiera Knightly is too boring for me to have an opinion about. Shes like the oatmeal of a breakfast buffet. If shes there, whatever. If she's not, who cares?
     Reply
    Edited by KATE! at 12/07/09 6:51 PM KATE! was starred KATE! was unstarred
    Image of JerkoftheMonth JerkoftheMonth
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    Why We Hate Misogynist Generalizations

    I really hate it when attractive women are congratulated for being attractive and mediocre. It's not hard to be attractive; it is hard to do a job well. Women who are ugly or beautiful or regular should be congratulated when they are awesome and nothing less.
    I am both. I accept your congratulations and offer mine in return, as I suspect most Jezzies are both beautiful and awesome.
     Reply
    JerkoftheMonth was starred JerkoftheMonth was unstarred
    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    I just really don't understand what's going on with Keira and the banana in the picture.

    Also, the female-female relationship dynamic deserves to be broken down in more creative ways than just jealousy/envy. For some reason, (and I'm not trying to get all Megan Fox here or anything) but I have a hard time having friendly relationships with women. I've tried to look at it from all angles and have tried to see if it was my personality that was the cause. However, even at my nicest, I still manage to attract the scorn of at least one woman. And that scorn spreeeeeads to everyone and soon enough, I'm back where I started. I know it can't simply be broken down to jealousy. But honestly, I would really like to know why.
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of Sarah Dove Sarah Dove
    12/07/09

    @Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: I think it's important to remember that it comes down to interaction with individuals, and their individual feelings about you. Try not to look at it as a problem you have with women, but a problem you have with people.
    Um, I know that doesn't sound very nice either, but what I mean is that I doubt the problem lies in the fact that they ARE women.
    I have problems with people myself.
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC promoted this comment Sarah Dove was starred Sarah Dove was unstarred
    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    12/07/09

    @Sarah Dove: I would agree with this, but like Amowls up top, I don't really have a problem with my interactions with men. This is not to say that all men love me or that all women hate me, but I do seem to be the bullied one when there's a bunch of women. Now, I do have a few girlfriends whom I love dearly, but I've been pondering why my interaction with some women is so lackluster. I'm mostly pondering this because I'm presently having a hard time with the women at my job.
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    *ponders*

    You know, Ms. KK might have a point, thought not quite in the way she thinks.

    It's not necessarily her some more insecure women might resent (especially in situations where bfs/gfs/inappropriately-remarking husbands might agitate that insecurity) -- but, rather, what all the attention paid to her looks gets her, in our society in its current guise where men still have the most control over its resources, and where they respond, sometimes in the most vulgar way possible, to those looks.

    At its most reductive, it strips down to not "What has she got", but "What has she got that I haven't", in a way where the last unspoken clause is "that gets her access to things I might need or want" -- in a society where women are relentlessly pushed to compare themselves to one another and then relentlessly shamed for doing so.

    We had a similar discussion on the Megan Fox thread - it's not how she looks per se, but more about the rewards she gets for looking that way in our society -- and, if one thinks about it in a zero-sum way (husband turns his attention away from you to drooling at her on screen) how many people have to be deprived of what they have in order for her to get what she has.

    Unpleasant, and perhaps unconscious, and certainly regularly unacknowleged by "nice girls" - but not, imo, implausible.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of misty_mae misty_mae
    12/07/09

    @Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Just to clarify, Kiera Knightley didn't say this about herself; Celia Walden said it about KK.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ promoted this comment misty_mae was starred misty_mae was unstarred
    Image of aclikeslater aclikeslater
    12/07/09

    @Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Do you think that on some level, the fact that being considered societally/conventionally beautiful is not something you can work toward plays into it?

    Meaning, I can be more diligent about housework, learn skills and crafts, pursue multiple degrees, etc. but I can't make myself more naturally physically attractive than I am. Granted, this branches off into the area of beauty consumerism to improve what you have (i.e. emulate these celebrities), and in a lot of ways both ideas are part of a cycle that perpetuates the specter of The Beauty Myth.

    Any fixation can easily veer into lustful territory, whether it be envy of Keira Knightley or what have you. It's a matter of degree--and perhaps once a person reaches that level of fixation, it does become that sort of obsessive, need-to-feed kind of drive.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ promoted this comment aclikeslater was starred aclikeslater was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    12/07/09

    @aclikeslater: I think if the premise in your first question were true, the economy would collapse with a sound like St Helen's imploding.

    I think your second and third paragraphs are extremely well-put.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    12/07/09

    @misty_mae: "Ms. Girl and her journalistic observers", then. Is that better?
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of superconnected (is it time to leave?) superconnected (is it time to leave?)
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    While I get that the "all female jealousy is lust" trope can be annoying and fairly male gazey, there can be some truth to it lust masquerading as jealousy for some women.

    The essay "Envy, A Love Story: Queering Female Jealousy" in Bitchfest articulates this well. I think, for some of us (ie myself) becoming aware that our envy is just a patriarchal perversion of same sex lust can be very liberating.

    "Men want to be with her, women want to be her..." Once I started asking myself, "do you really want to be her? Or do you want to be /with /her?" things started clearing up a bit for me.
     Reply
    superconnected (is it time to leave?) was starred superconnected (is it time to leave?) was unstarred
    Image of Nuckin Futz for you Nuckin Futz for you
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    What does it mean if I find her attractive (and actually I do)? So I either find her attractive and lust after her or I hate on her and say I don't find her attractive because I secretly lust after her? I think this is just the hope men have that we are all "lesbians", but not the kind that really only like girls, just the kind that like girls in front of men and encourage them to join. Why can't it be accepted sometimes a person just rubs you wrong. I've admitted before I dont find Megan Fox talented and I would never call her ugly but I dont feel attraction for her and I dont think she's a good actress, it certainly is not jealousy due to my boyfriend drooling over her because he agrees with me.
     Reply
    Nuckin Futz for you was starred Nuckin Futz for you was unstarred
    Image of LazyHippo LazyHippo
    12/07/09

    @Nuckin Futz for you: Oh (wo)man, you're not all lesbians? Fuck.
     Reply
    Nuckin Futz for you promoted this comment LazyHippo was starred LazyHippo was unstarred
    Image of Justine Justine
    12/07/09

    @Nuckin Futz for you: Yeah... as a woman who routinely finds other women attractive -- including Keira -- I call B.S. For one thing, it implies that sex appeal is the only impetus for female envy. When I think of who I'd envy, I'm just as likely to be jealous of someone's job, lifestyle, personal style, intellectual prowess or S.O. as I am their looks*. and I'm way more likely to be appreciative of a beautiful woman then envious of her.

    *That being said, I'm generally not a jealous person, but I have my moments.
     Reply
    Nuckin Futz for you promoted this comment Justine was starred Justine was unstarred
    Image of Nuckin Futz for you Nuckin Futz for you
    11:22 AM

    @Justine: Well we all have our moments, I call shenanigans on anyone claiming to never be jealous.

    Yours is another good point though, I'd say I'm far more likely to be jealous of something I can see as attainable like a job that they enjoy, style if I had the money, money in general then looks. I cant or wouldnt ever change mine but I can ENJOY looking at an attractive person, so it bothers me that people assume if you say you dont find the person attractive you must just then be jealous. If I had to pick anyone to look like it would be Kiera or Laura Prepon, Mila Jovovich and you certainly are going to find me watching them on screen not expressing negative things out of jealousy.
     Reply
    Edited by Nuckin Futz for you at 12/08/09 11:29 AM Nuckin Futz for you was starred Nuckin Futz for you was unstarred
    Image of jfwlucy jfwlucy
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    Can't you just put any female
    name in there and get the same take?

    " . . . female hatred of LaToya Jackson/Elizabeth Taylor/Sarah Palin/Abbess Hildegard of Bingen is really a form of lust . . ."

    Poor old Keira just happened to be the assignment on the day this writer got a bee in her bonnet about female jealously and lust.
     Reply
    jfwlucy was starred jfwlucy was unstarred
    Image of Sarah Dove Sarah Dove
    12/07/09

    @jfwlucy: Well I certainly hope your citation of my homegirl Hildegard is PURELY hypothetical!
     Reply
    jfwlucy promoted this comment Sarah Dove was starred Sarah Dove was unstarred
    Image of jfwlucy jfwlucy
    08:51 AM

    @Sarah Dove: I could make it Eleanor of Aquitaine, Berenice, or even Jezebel.

    Not Dido, though. Poor thing. Who would want to be her.
     Reply
    jfwlucy was starred jfwlucy was unstarred
    Image of PilgrimSoul PilgrimSoul
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    I don't hate Keira Knightly. I hate the sin - namely, that she leads with her chin.
     Reply
    PilgrimSoul was starred PilgrimSoul was unstarred
    Image of J.D.Regent J.D.Regent
    12/07/09

    @PilgrimSoul: why can't rich actresses afford acting lessons? I don't get it.
     Reply
    J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred
    Image of SUNNY1 SUNNY1
    12/07/09

    @PilgrimSoul: It's the speaking through a clenched jaw thing she does that kills me.

    And by kills, I mean tickles. I love/hate her acting.
     Reply
    SUNNY1 was starred SUNNY1 was unstarred
    Image of aspiringexpatriate aspiringexpatriate
    02:39 AM

    @J.D.Regent: Because famous people are already great, the market says so! It MUST be true! Also, half the non-successful actors in the class would be starstruck, jealous, or otherwise annoying.
     Reply
    aspiringexpatriate was starred aspiringexpatriate was unstarred
    Image of SharonTaint SharonTaint
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    Jealousy is such a grade-school emotion. Fleeting envy over a pair of astronomically priced shoes? Maybe. But it passes.

    I swear the last time I ever felt truly jealous of someone was over a classmate's new headband with a silk bow on it and I was ten years old.

    In short, shut up, Keira Knightley.
     Reply
    SharonTaint was starred SharonTaint was unstarred
    Image of CourtleyLove CourtleyLove
    12/07/09

    @SharonTaint: I don't think SHE said the stuff in the article... it was some writer named Celia Walden, if I'm reading it correctly.
     Reply
    SharonTaint promoted this comment CourtleyLove was starred CourtleyLove was unstarred
    Image of pamalter pamalter
    12/07/09

    @SharonTaint: It is, but it's so easy to fall into. I went through a big stage where I disliked Keira, but in the end, I just owned up to the fact that the first time I saw her in Pirates of the Caribbean, I thought she was perfect-looking. If that was really the last time you were jealous, well...wow. I commend you.
     Reply
    SharonTaint promoted this comment pamalter was starred pamalter was unstarred
    Image of SharonTaint SharonTaint
    12/07/09

    @CourtleyLove: I should have clarified: I agree with the hatred directed towards that stupid face she makes, therefore shut up Keira Knightley (when making that face).

    ;)
     Reply
    SharonTaint was starred SharonTaint was unstarred
    Image of SharonTaint SharonTaint
    12/07/09

    @pamalter: I guess I don't get those feelings about women more beautiful than I am because there's nothing really that I can do to change my genetics, nor would I want to.

    I'm OK with how I look, even though I won't be gracing the silver screen any time soon.
     Reply
    SharonTaint was starred SharonTaint was unstarred
    Image of Lymed Lymed
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    Wait, I'm supposed to be jealous of Sarah Palin? I must have missed that memo.
     Reply
    Lymed was starred Lymed was unstarred
    Image of emfish55 emfish55
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    Don't men do this too? There is a component of sexual jealousy, but it seems to run every which way. I can't count the number of times I've heard a guy friend say he "hates" Jude Law or doesn't understand why women find Daniel Craig attractive.

    Which makes it all the more annoying when female jealousy is held up as an example of femininity (meaning women are by nature petty and jealous and competitive), as though men don't possess the same qualities in equal amounts.

    I've grown weary of the "women are so XYZ" articles, arguments, and trends. Women are so... human. We never claimed to be anything else.
     Reply
    emfish55 was starred emfish55 was unstarred
    Image of Zombie Ms. Skittles Zombie Ms. Skittles
    12/07/09

    @emfish55: I found a most excellent article a few weeks ago (I'd link it, except it's on my home PC and I don't want to Google "Robert Pattinson treated like a girl" because I am scared) that addressed this with regard to the Twilight phenomenon. The writer's thesis was that men "hate" Twilight in general and Robert Pattinson in particular because he's the male equivalent of Megan Fox. He badmouths his projects, he admits he's not the best actor out there, and people only watch his movies because he's so damn attractive. We consider this a perfectly fine reason to watch Megan Fox, but it makes men uncomfortable because the women and girls who objectify Robert Pattinson are treating him like a "girl" and are behaving like "men." We don't expect women and girls to be just as horny and capable of objectification as men and boys, so it freaks them out that we can do it.
     Reply
    Zombie Ms. Skittles was starred Zombie Ms. Skittles was unstarred
    Image of Diziet_Sma Diziet_Sma
    12/07/09

    @emfish55: You're absolutely right. The biological imperative is a bitch… and a bastard.
     Reply
    Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred
    Image of LouisiAnna LouisiAnna
    12/07/09

    @emfish55: Men do it through dick and bank account sizes. That, however, is deemed respectable, whereas we vag-havers are all agog, aghast, and agape at one another's looks.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ promoted this comment LouisiAnna was starred LouisiAnna was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    12/07/09

    @emfish55: So well put. Go you.

    Daniel and Pierce (and my favorite 006, Alex Trevelyan) are the only reasons for Bond marathons.

    (Though my mom continues to insist on the young Connery, she is slowly coming around to the DC way. He's done a good job of growing on both of us -- I was really steaming when they dumped Pierce and refused to replace him with James Purefoy, but I've become ... acclimated to the current casting.)
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of KitPorter KitPorter
    12/07/09

    @Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Oooh, I remember the whodikkery when Craig was announced as the new Bond. As a pre-JB Craig fan, I'm so proud of him.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ promoted this comment KitPorter was starred KitPorter was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    12/07/09

    @Zombie Ms. Skittles: Sounds like the writer thinks his male gaze privileges, they haz been appropriated.

    Let me get out my RAZR and call the world's smallest waaaahmbulance.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    12/07/09

    @KitPorter: Gold star for you. After I saw "Crimson Tide", I ran out like a scalded cat and got "A Walk on the Moon" and "A Perfect Murder".
    (I already had "The Mighty Quinn" and "Mo' Better Blues", and Danny Nuzzi doesn't get enough leads.)

    So when people were running around screaming "Aragorn!" I had to kind of struggle to control the smug.
     Reply
    Edited by Rooo sez BISH PLZ at 12/07/09 8:36 PM Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of Zombie Ms. Skittles Zombie Ms. Skittles
    12/07/09

    @Rooo sez BISH PLZ: I am home now, so here is the essay in question. It's actually really good.

    [tigerbeatdown.com]
     Reply
    Zombie Ms. Skittles was starred Zombie Ms. Skittles was unstarred
    Image of aspiringexpatriate aspiringexpatriate
    02:43 AM

    @Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Please, Mortensen was better in The Prophecy and 28 Days (yes, the sandra bullock movie about rehab). Looks like I need to see A Walk on the Moon though.
     Reply
    aspiringexpatriate was starred aspiringexpatriate was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    10:15 AM

    @aspiringexpatriate: Morning to you!
    I think you'll like "A Walk on the Moon".
    And he scared the beejeebers out of me in "Prophecy", but you do really think he was better in that than in "Crimson Tide"?
    (Or maybe it's just I like him better understated than oozing out of his own pores. Or maybe the whole rest of "Prophecy" gave me such creeps it's distorting my memories of the performance.)
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of aspiringexpatriate aspiringexpatriate
    08:33 PM

    @Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Fair point about The Prophecy, but I've never seen anyone else ooze that well, not even Tim Roth or Sean Bean. All I remember from Crimson Tide is that I barely remember him in it, so I guess that says something.
     Reply
    aspiringexpatriate was starred aspiringexpatriate was unstarred
    Image of sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    That explanation about female lust was simplistically absurd. Personally, I consider Keira Knightly to be an exceptional actress. Although the only film of hers I would openly endorse is Doctor Zhivago, I still believe she is a well rounded person who supports worthy causes.
     Reply
    sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was starred sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was unstarred
    Image of Khrushchev Khrushchev
    12/07/09

    In reply to On Keira Knightley: "Female Jealousy Is A Form Of Lust"
    I also hate her because she's always foiling my nefarious schemes with her band of do-gooder friends and her oversized dog. I would have gotten away with them, too, if it weren't for that meddling Knightley!
     Reply
    Edited by Khrushchev at 12/07/09 2:51 PM Khrushchev was starred Khrushchev was unstarred
    Image of OneTwoPunch OneTwoPunch
    12/07/09

    @Khrushchev: "I'll get you, my pretty!"
     Reply
    OneTwoPunch was starred OneTwoPunch was unstarred
    Image of OneTwoPunch OneTwoPunch
    12/07/09

    @Khrushchev: Duh. You meant Scooby-Doo. I'm freakin' fried with my pop culture references today.
     Reply
    OneTwoPunch was starred OneTwoPunch was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    12/07/09

    @Khrushchev: Just another day at the Wacky Races.

    *protracted Muttley snicker*
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
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