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Zombies make the heart grow fonder
07/29/09

In reply to Baby Talk
AAAHHH stone babies!!! EEEK! See, this is exactly why I am starting my NO MORE BABIES cause...well, okay-this and the pro-lifers.
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Bunsen Honeydew
07/29/09

In reply to Baby Talk
Well, that picture will be cause for many nightmares.
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MissBrittleBones
07/29/09

In reply to Baby Talk
I've dated my fair share of 23 year old babies. And, yes, they were often the cause of debate.
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jeepgirl
07/29/09

@MissBrittleBones: Yes, and I bet a fair share of them had a hard time leaving their mommy as well.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
So, my son was stillborn on February 12. And I have already been blamed by Sammy's father. Thank God the doctor told me it was not my fault, but I am already convinced that it is. It doesn't matter that I was hyper-aware of the risks of everything and took all precautions. When something like this happens, all I can do is blame myself.
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Lymed
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: You need to unconvince yourself, because it isn't your fault. You provided the safest home possible for Sammy, including an enormous amount of love that we all felt through your words.
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AwkwardTurtle
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: Myabe hearing it again from a stranger helps, who knows but: Losing your son was not your fault. I'm sorry you're going thru this and I hope you are finding support and love from those around you in addition to the interwebs.
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formergr
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: I'm so so sorry for your loss, it must be devastating. It sounds like you've already heard this, and will hear it again but, but I'm just going to say it too to try and reinforce: NOT YOUR FAULT. It wasn't. At all.
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snarkhunting is becoming a sarcastic bitch
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: Oh my God. I'm so sorry.
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lalaland13
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: Oh god hearing that shit about Sammy's father being an assclown makes me want to come up there and do some country justice. That is so ridiculous that he is blaming you for something you had no damn control over and no way of preventing. I don't know how realistic it is, but I almost wish your doc could call your ex and lecture him.
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AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies)
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: what a creep, he has no right to do that. Of course it wasn't your fault and you ahve the Dr. to back you up on that. I understand that you can't just magically stop feeling like it was, but honey, I prommise you didn't do anything wrong.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
03/04/09

@AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies): Well, I'm also in a lot of denial about the whole thing, even when I talk about it. I still refer to him in the present tense. And the ex is being handled. Thanks to ALL OF YOU.
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YourScreenplaySucks
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: Please don't do this to yourself. You'll make yourself crazy analyzing every little thing. I know that's easier said than done, especially when the people around you feel qualified to make insinuations or outright accusations. But try to trust in the opinion of your doctor and in your own knowledge that you did what you needed to do to care for yourself and your baby. Some things are just out of our control and while most of us can see that when dealing with someone else's personal tragedy, it can be hard to remember when something happens to us.
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AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies)
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: Sarah, there's nothing wrong with referring to him in the present tense. Sammy still *is*. Don't let anyone ever tell you different.
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ellaesther
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: Good for you, re: the ex, and remember: There's no wrong way to be with this loss right now. labeled told you so, and she was right. You talk about your Sammy however you need to.
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Red-headed bookworm
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: Oh, I'm so sorry. I don't know what else to say except, from seeing other people's experiences, it will get better eventually.
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BlondeGrlz
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: Hugs. I'm still praying for you often.
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: Also, your ex is a shithead. As in a person with shit where his head and brains should be. We're all so sorry for the loss of Sammy - and glad you're not with that asshat anymore.
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AlisaBabalas
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: I blamed myself for the loss of my daughter for a very long time But, just know that it wasn't your fault. I finally met with a doctor who specializes in prenatal loss and it wasn't until he looked me in the eye and told me it wasn't my fault that I could believe it. I did everything right and it still happened. It wasn't your fault.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
03/04/09

@AlisaBabalas: I am so sorry you had to endure the loss of your daughter. I am trying to believe it's not my fault, but I can't. Not yet, at least.

@afteriris: I talk to Sammy every night and every morning. He's still my son.
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Hana Maru
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: My heart goes out to you, dear. Please believe the doctor that these things can happen even when we do everything right. Your ex has no right to treat you that way and I'm glad that's not affecting you.
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merv
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
Why wouldn't doctors discuss the possibility of an autopsy before someone even goes into labor? I understand why they wouldn't want to talk about it once it's happened but why not take steps to prevent such a situation by making it a mandatory conversation before the birth takes place?
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evil_green_eyes
03/04/09

@mervbaby: I think the women going into labor already have enough to deal with and stressing them out with discussions like that would only add additional pressure to them and make them worry more.
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Lymed
03/04/09

@mervbaby: You really want to go into a prenatal visit and have a doctor ask "You need to decide whether or not you will have an autopsy if your child is still born."?
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merv
03/04/09

@Lymed with a sore throat: Well, no, but I wouldn't want to asked after having a still born either.
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merv
03/04/09

@evil_green_eyes: but would it safe stress in the end?
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Lymed
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
The rates of infant mortality among African Americans is much higher than among whites, even after accounting for other factors including health of the mother and socio-economic status. Infant mortality is different than stillborn births, but I would presume there is some connection. The reasons are not known, although one hypothesis is that it is a result of the higher stress level of African American that may even go back to being in a lower socio-economic status in childhood.
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AuntieBee
03/04/09

@Lymed with a sore throat: I would be interested to see a contrast between African Americans and other black people, to test that hypothesis about stress.
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Lymed
03/04/09

@AuntieBee: Unfortunately, a lot of social science research counts all Black Americans as African Americans. But they hypothesis was really nothing more than an hypothesis, somebody trying to figure out why is it that if you take two healthy women in the same socioeconomic status, one will have a higher chance of having an infant die because of the color of her skin. But by stress, they actually did include things like not having regular access to medical care as a child possibly impacting a woman's baby's health. In some ways, it may need an analysis of people's childhood socioeconomic status.
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AuntieBee
03/04/09

@Lymed with a sore throat: Ah, I should have been more specific, sorry. I meant Black people who aren't Americans. Like, Cubans, or Africans, or Black Brits...

I am certain that there is an effect from socio-economic status. I am also certain that there is a lot of stress for anyone living in poverty (or near to it).
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Lymed
03/04/09

@AuntieBee: The thing about this study, is it found Black Americans who are upper middle class still have higher rates of infant mortality. Which is why they thought it may have been linked to childhood socioeconomic status, and the idea of that impacting the next generation, even when you are able to move into a higher economic status, is beyond frightening.
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AuntieBee
03/04/09

@Lymed with a sore throat: Yeah, that is terrifying. As if it's not enough to struggle and work to pull yourself out of that cycle of poverty, bearing the emotional scars it creates. That those emotional scars can be damaging to ones reproduction is mind blowing.
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Turanga_Leela
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
My late grandmother's first three children were stillborn (she later gave birth to six more healthy girls). I don't know what the cause was and neither does my mom. I am pregnant now, coming up very close to my due date, and every so often I think about it and my heart aches for my poor grandmother. I don't know how she was able to deal with it and still remain the strong woman I remember her being.
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evil_green_eyes
03/04/09

@Turanga_Leela: I know many many years ago, in the late fifties my grandmother gave birth to a stillborn daughter. Apparently everything was fine up until the delivery. I don't think they even let her see her daughter or tell her where she's buried.
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AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies)
03/04/09

@evil_green_eyes: it breaks my heart that they used to treat these parents like that, also makes me think of how they used to ship off disabled kids to homes and the family would loose track of them through the years. heartwrenching
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lalaland13
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
Once I read a story about a stillborn baby, and there were pics of the mom holding it, and you could see marks around it's mouth where doctors tried to resuscitate it. I cried.

I think I would want to know, if this happened to me. If there was anyway of knowing, I'd want to. Of course, if a doctor didn't ask, I might be too dazed and shocked to mention it myself.
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AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies)
03/04/09

@lalaland13: there's a wonderful group of photographers who specialize in portraits of still-born babies and the ones who die shortly after birth. I've been thinking of joining, but I'm not sure I can deal with it emotionally, you have to be very strong. It's such an important and meaningful thing to be able to do for someone though.
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formergr
03/04/09

@AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies): When I first heard of this group I will admit that I thought it was morbid and strange and something I would never even consider if I god forbid ever faced such a loss.

Then I went to the website and looked at some of the photos, and they were *so* beautiful and just so peaceful, and within ten minutes I had tears streaming down my face and would now recommend it to anyone whoever might have a need for their services. I very quickly realized what a comfort such photos could be and what a wonderful thing these photographers were doing for the families (and many offered their services pro bono, no less).
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gobblegirl
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
Question for the you Jezebels who are nurses, doctors, or just smarter than me:

What's the difference between prenatal and antenatal? Based on the latin, they should be synonyms, but are they? I've always heard about 'prenatal' care, and wonder if there's a difference.

Thanks!
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Majrhoulihan
03/04/09

@gobblegirl: One is the British word and the other is Americanized.
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Majrhoulihan
03/04/09

@gobblegirl: When I was studying at a British University, at least once a week someone would use a word like that and I would grumble "WTF?" while I took notes.

Then, I'd figure it out.
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Breamworthy
03/04/09

@Majrhoulihan: Okay, I assumed that too but then I noticed that the British organization is called The Stillbirth and Neonatal Death Society.
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Flackette Goes Retro
03/04/09

@Breamworthy: Neonatal = post-natal. So infant deaths, like SIDS.
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afteriris
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
I have already said some of this a bit further up the thread, but I shall repeat it nevertheless!

My daughter was stillborn in May a week past her due date, so I have very recent experience of this topic.

I have to say that although I think it is important that women understand the risks attached to their pregnancies I feel very strongly that I am so glad that I didn't know that my daughter was going to die until she died. That might sound a bit weird, but it would have been terrible to spend 9 months full of anxiety and worry.

The pressure that pregnant women encounter is so enormous. Everyone feels like they can have an opinion about your body, your health etc etc. Many of the recommendations made to pregnant women aren't based on rigorous research (mainly due to ethical issues). Most guidelines are based on exptrapolations of the evidence from 'worst' case scenarios i.e. recommendations on alcohol consumtion come from studies of infants born with foetal alcohol syndrome from alcoholic mothers.

Even in light of my personal bereavement, I am not in favour of rules for women that are based on a 'just in case' mentality. It's that sort of thinking that kept women from running marathons, and I can't get on board with that.
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ellaesther
03/04/09

@afteriris: Oh honey. I am so sorry for your loss. The pressure you refer to is relentless, and I'm sure it continues in some awful way after a stillbirth. I'm just so, so sorry.
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YourScreenplaySucks
03/04/09

@afteriris: I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter. Thanks for your input on this.
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badmutha
03/04/09

@afteriris: My heart goes out to you. Thanks for sharing your story.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
03/04/09

@afteriris: I am so sorry you had to go through that. I've said it before, but it bears repeating.
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snarkhunting is becoming a sarcastic bitch
03/04/09

@afteriris: I'm so, so sorry for your loss, and wish you the very best with the baby you're expecting.
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BlondeGrlz
03/04/09

@afteriris: I was hoping to see you post on this topic. I'm just an internet stalker but I feel like the way you talk about Iris makes me feel that if - God forbid - something were to happen to my own baby I, it's possible to go on with life. Not the same life, and not always happily or in a pulled together way, but a life that continues. Congrats again on the new pregnancy.
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afteriris
03/04/09

@ everyone: thank you all so much for your lovely comments. I'm very moved by how thoughtful you Jezzies are.
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AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies)
03/05/09

@afteriris: I'd like to add that your blog is beautiful and sad and hopeful all at the same time. Good luck dear
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
This makes my heart hurt.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
03/04/09

@BrutallyHonestZombies: Mine too. HUGS.
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Jezemale*
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
This news is heartbreaking, but it seems that black women suffer the most EVERYTHING in this country. So dismaying. I really hope the doctors find a cause.
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Lana Leigh loves Meryl Streep
03/04/09

@Tsar-Romanov: That's what I was thinking. But I think it's poor diet and that can lead to an ass of problems.
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AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies)
03/04/09

@Ava-Scarlett loves Kate Winslet: yeah your basis for that generalization is?
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saintbernadette
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
I've never been pregnant, but I can't imagine what it must be like to give birth to a stillborn child. This picture, by the way, is heartbreaking.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
03/04/09

@saintbernadette: It is traumatic, or was for me. Six hours pushing and crying when I knew he had already passed, but this giddy euphoric hope that just maybe he would come out and be gasping for breath and be saved. It's awful and I would never wish it on my very worst enemy.
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AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies)
03/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god: oh, this should never happen, words cannot express how much our hearts have broken for you and how brave you are for talking about this so openly
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
03/04/09

@AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies): I'm still in a lot of denial. I talk about it so that I can try to come to grips and grieve, which has not happened so far.
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bananaprincess
03/04/09

@saintbernadette: I was told my baby would be still born, but she came out alive . It was the most precious hour of my life, I wanted to kill myself later, but I stayed for my 4 year old. I also have another son now which has helped heal me, to a degree. But I will always miss her.
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bananaprincess
03/04/09

She only lived for one hour.@BananaPrincesswith Braiiins:
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par3
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
i'm surprised that none of the reasons listed were related to drug/alcohol abuse??
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EkaterinaBallerina
03/04/09

In reply to Steps Taken To Reduce Rate Of Stillbirths
The moment my mother felt me stop moving in utero, she called her doctor and got herself to a hospital. I was born via emergency c-section a short time later, not breathing. The doctors told my parents there was little chance I'd make it through the night. Through the amazing work of the NICU at GWU Medical Center, I survived. But my mother says she's never forgotten that feeling of unbelievable fear when she felt something was wrong.
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badmutha
03/04/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: Your Momma saved your life! Good for her that she was proactive.
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misspie
03/04/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: reading stories like yours both warm my heart and scare me at the same time.

the typical medical advice if you can't feel your baby moving is to drink some juice and wait an hour before you call in.

i'm so glad your mother listened to her instincts.
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lollapulizer
03/04/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: Okay, I was born at GWU as well, not breathing and purpley-yellow. Weird coincidence!
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AuntieBee
03/04/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: This is very similar to my baby brother's birth. One week before the due date, my Mom started bleeding. She called the hospital and they said as long as the baby moved, she didn't have to panic on the way in (reassuring, huh?). I will never forget her face, white with fear, as she massaged and prodded her belly, murmuring "please move, baby, please move."

An emergency c-section and a mega load of blood transfusion later, they both made it out okay.
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EkaterinaBallerina
03/04/09

@misspie: My mother said that she'd heard several women get that advice and the baby was later born stillborn. That was in her head when she felt me stop moving after weeks of being overactive.
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misspie
03/04/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: shit. do you mind if i hold you up as an example to my husband as to why worrying about fetal movement is not me just being paranoid?
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EkaterinaBallerina
03/04/09

@misspie: No, do it! I think my dad had heard the stories too, so he was completely on board with her panicking. Obviously, in the end, her fears turned out to be very real.

It's all about instinct. My mother said her instinct told her something was wrong and she was prepared to fight the doctors tooth and nail if they questioned it.
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EkaterinaBallerina
03/04/09

@lollapulizer: What year? I was 1983. The Washington Post did a story on the new machines that saved the lives of the babies in my unit. My parents saved it for years to show me what had kept me alive.
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lollapulizer
03/04/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: 1989. We have pictures of me in the incubator and my brother getting his temperature taken so he could hold me. I know that I was yellow and something was wrong with my liver (I think) so I had to get a spinal tap. Thank goodness I was so little I can't remember that!
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BlondeGrlz
03/04/09

@misspie: I've found Mountain Dew is VERY effective in making sure the BlondeBoy is still ok. Of course I'm probably poisoning him slowly with all that sugar and food coloring.
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Liz11685
03/04/09

@lollapulizer: The yellow sounds like jaundice and it is VERY common in preemies. (I had it and was 6 weeks early)
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