mastectomy - Jezebel

posts about #mastectomy more →
17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
Geishas In Kyoto Sick Of Tourist Attention • Pakistan Launches Investigation Into Taliban Flogging Of Young Girl

Your version of Internet Explorer is not supported. Please upgrade to the most recent version in order to view comments.

Dsmvwl Admin Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×

JerkoftheMonth
05/06/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
I already wrote this in response to a thread, but I want to post it again:

I agree with you all on this issue, however isn't there a point we're missing? If gender and sex are only constructs, than why are gender reassignment surgeries necessary? If we stopped classifying people into men and women - and the accompanying characteristics - people could just be the gender they feel is right regardless of what their body looks like. In a way I feel that GRS is just another format for adherence to gender norms. When women don't like their bodies - don't feel that they are the 'right' body for them - they can get plastic surgery, but this is not something that is indicative of a culture with healthy body image. I think that it would be best for transgender people to accept their body as it is and live as whatever gender they want to, though this may be difficult.
Reply

JerkoftheMonth was starred JerkoftheMonth was unstarred

Her Grace
05/06/09

@JerkoftheMonth: I'm afraid this is a case where those of us who don't fit gender norms--and while on a day-to-day basis I identify as female, I certainly would describe myself in more complex terms given the chance--must politely ask you to step off. You are speaking from a position of privelege, and unrealized privelege, as someone who has never had to consider that their body does not fit with what their mind is telling them they should look like in an extremely fundamental way. This is not about being fat or thin, or a certain shade of brown, this is about the very shape of one's body, and the genitalia associated therewith.

This is not about "women not liking their bodies." This is about men being born with feminine bodies, and women being born with masculine ones. By insisting on referring to people by the gender assigned to them at birth, you are being transphobic. You have no right to tell a transperson that they should accept the body that feels fundamentally wrong to them. You would not like it if someone Freaky Fridayed you into the body of the opposite gender without warning, and you had to spend the rest of your life trying to get back to feeling 'normal'. Further, it can be almost impossible to live as one's correct gender with an uncorrected body--just try walking into the other bathroom in public and see how well it goes.
Reply

Her Grace was starred Her Grace was unstarred

NewsBunny
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
My only hesitation with this is that the kid is only 17.

Not that this is wrong, or evil, or anything like that. Only that he's 17.

That said, if I were the judge I'd probably make the same decision, if the kid had undergone plenty of counseling to make sure he was the on the right path, considering how difficult his life has been thus far.
Reply

NewsBunny was starred NewsBunny was unstarred

St. Francis of a Sissy
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
I don't doubt that there are young people who believe they were born exhibiting the physical characteristics of the wrong gender, but some of the facts of this case give me pause.

He thinks everyone in the world is a man, and was disappointed to learn that that's not the case? His mother turned him over to the state? He wore diapers to school? I think this young man needs psychological evaluation UNRELATED to his gender dysphoria.
Reply

J.D.Regent
05/05/09

@St. Francis of a Sissy: well he's been a ward of the state since age 10 so I think it's likely he's had some counseling. He thought everyone was a man when he was a child, not as a 17 year old. He wore diapers to school for the very reason that the bathroom was not a safe place for him. The point the judge made is that his mental health is more threatened by NOT having the surgery than by having it. This was done for therapeutic reasons.
Reply

J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred

LoSpaz
05/05/09

@St. Francis of a Sissy: It says that *as a child* he believed everyone was male, not that he still believes this. He wore diapers because he believed he was male, and thus shouldn't have to use the girls' restroom. I doubt he had anything to do with his mother's decision to turn him over to the state. I'm guessing that if the court found him mentally fit enough to have the surgery as a minor, he's probably doing OK.

Which isn't to say that everyone couldn't use some therapy, but I don't think the points you bring up are necessarily grounds for it in this case.
Reply

LoSpaz was starred LoSpaz was unstarred

PhillyLass
05/05/09

@LoSpaz: Also, I can't help but wonder if his mother was a religious zealot who thought he was evil because of his gender crisis.
Reply

PhillyLass was starred PhillyLass was unstarred

PreposterousHypothesis
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
"But if people were put in the position where they had to decide about a particular case, then I think the majority of people would come to the same conclusion - just on the basis of the evidence, and the level of absolute human unhappiness, and the opportunity to make a real change to somebody's life for the better. That's what it's about."

Some of the words would have to be tweaked, but I think this is completely how people deal with GLBT issues and come around to acceptance. They can only be bigoted until that distance is closed, and from there they have to make a choice. I feel that people wouldn't be as adamantly opposed to gay marriage if they personally knew someone who was torn up about how he or she couldn't get legally married.
Reply

Bitchface
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
I completely applaud the judge for making the right decision even though she had to know the shitstorm that awaited her. That my friends, is justice. Also, wearing diapers to school so he wouldn't have to use the ladies room! That is pretty hardcore, high school is a nightmare to begin with and when you throw that into the mix, well it speaks volumes to me about how uncomfortable he truly was with his body.
Reply

Bitchface was starred Bitchface was unstarred

PhillyLass
05/05/09

@Bitchface: I know! It broke my heart to read about that. I can't imagine how hard it must have been for him to stay true to himself.
Reply

PhillyLass was starred PhillyLass was unstarred

J.D.Regent
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
Oh guess what. I googled. Nick Tonti-Fillippini is a CATHOLIC bio-ethicist.
Reply

J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred

Santos L Halper
05/05/09

@J.D.Regent: It's quite telling that he's a subject coordinator for "Foundations of Christian Moral Life" and "Theology and Practice of Natural Family Planning."
Reply

Santos L Halper was starred Santos L Halper was unstarred

J.D.Regent
05/05/09

@Santos L Halper - Ovaries: totally neutral choice to quote, without advisement of his ideology, in the absence of any other "expert"!
Reply

J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred

CollegeBookworm
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
I'm excited to see how far this will progress- though I think it will take a lot before the US is willing to allow a young transgendered individual to transition. Anyone remember the article a while back about young children who are placed on hormones to prevent them from entering puberty while it's determined if the child is truly transgendered? Puberty does a lot to make transitioning more difficult, though as a FtM trasnsgendered individual Alex is much more likely to achieve a gender presentation that passes as male to the general public than an MtF individual the same age. Point being, the earlier a child is allowed to begin transition, the more likely they are to pass as their correct gender identity. Good for Australia for taking this step!
Reply

CollegeBookworm was starred CollegeBookworm was unstarred

morninggloria
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
Oh no, not the precious, precious boobs. Not the boobs. Anything but the boobs.
Reply

morninggloria was starred morninggloria was unstarred

Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense!
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
I feel like everyone in the world should have to watch "Ma Vie En Rose." You can't watch that movie without coming away knowing that children should be allowed to express their gender however makes them happiest.

Honestly I think it's SO FUCKING STUPID that we gender babies and small children. I don't understand why they can't all be its with different bits.

It just makes me so angry that people give a shit about who other people want to dress or enact their gender. If it's not your cup of tea that's why there are 6+ billion other fish in the sea.
Reply

ihateyourescalade
05/05/09

@Lizard in the Wires, should be working on her slasher film ...: I totally agree with you. And, yet, as a mom, I am more than a little uncomfortable with Alex making this irreversible decision at such a young age. It's a complex issue, I think. No simple answers.
Reply

ihateyourescalade was starred

PhillyLass
05/05/09

@Lizard in the Wires, should be working on her slasher film ...: I'm now thinking of the "free to be you and me" soundtrack. I need to find out if it's still around so I can buy it for my nephew.
Reply

PhillyLass was starred PhillyLass was unstarred

maneki neko
05/05/09

@Lizard in the Wires, should be working on her slasher film ...: That's a great movie. People are often really nervous about someone so young making such a huge decision such as a sex change operation, but as I understand, they rarely change their minds.
Reply

maneki neko was starred maneki neko was unstarred

battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
Yes, because boobs are totally irreplaceable, you crazy fundies. Let he who is without fake-boobied wife/gf/sister/aunt/mother/cousin/etc cast the first stone.
Reply

J.D.Regent
05/05/09

@battleaxonista: All we have to do with regretful F2Ms is just get them to sign up for the Miss California pageant!!! FREE BOOBS FOR EVERYONE!
Reply

J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred

J.D.Regent
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
PS, can we get a judge like Bryant on SCOTUS?
Reply

J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred

J.D.Regent
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
Yes Nick, because no transgendered person ever commits suicide unless they are NOT forced to continue living in a body they reject.

PS, doesn't ALL medicine seek to make biology fit a belief? I have cancer. My belief is I SHOULD NOT HAVE CANCER. Am I missing something? Are we all supposed to just let biology lead us wherever it may? Is that "ethical," Nick?
Reply

J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred

J.D.Regent
05/05/09

@J.D.Regent: in FACT in this very case it looks like the hormone order was allowed because Alex was feared to be suicidal if he went through puberty as a girl. [www.theage.com.au]
Reply

J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred

BoozeInMyBlood[had lost her password]
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
WHY THE FUCK IS IT ANYONES BUSINESS IF HE REMOVES HIS BREASTS?

Does it affect ANYONE else?

nope.
Reply

LaComtesse
05/05/09

@BoozeInMyBlood[is lusting over Seth Green]: The legitimate issue, I think, is his age. He's not yet an adult in the eyes of the law.
Reply

LaComtesse was starred LaComtesse was unstarred

ihateyourescalade
05/05/09

@LaComtesse: Yes, exactly. And lord knows we've all made decisions at 17 we later regretted. (Not that this will necessarily be true in Alex's case. But still, it gives one pause.)
Reply

ihateyourescalade was starred

JerseyGrrrl
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
"sex-change operations are just a form of mutilation"

So what if they are? Not only is this reductionist, it's also rather, to me, an argument in favor of them. I believe a person should have control over her body, and that includes not only the right to tattoo and pierce it, but also to change the shape of its nose or remove or alter its sexual organs and make medical decision regarding it.

Why is a nose job OK and a mastectomy questionable? Of course because of the weighty gender issues involved. But that makes the nose job no less permanent, which seems to be the paternalistic thinking going into arguing against it.
Reply

JerseyGrrrl was starred JerseyGrrrl was unstarred

whynotshesaid
05/05/09

@JerseyGrrrl: Yeah that jumped out at me, too. We allow all kinds of body modifications - from tattoos to breast augmentation - that could easily be considered mutilation of the body, so why do we suddenly draw the line here?

It's clearly because the kid is stepping outside of gender norms, and we can't have that happen, now can we? But if he wanted to get some bigger boobies, well, I don't see the ethicist having any problem with that, even though such a mindset could absolutely be considered to stem from environmental factors as well. (Unless there is a "MUST HAVE BIG BOOBEHS" gene I don't know about. In which case I stand corrected.)
Reply

whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred

Lulupasternak
05/05/09

@JerseyGrrrl: But at the public expense? Should the public pay for nose jobs? Should the public pay for tattoos?
Reply

Lulupasternak was starred Lulupasternak was unstarred

Her Grace
05/06/09

@Lulupasternak: I have no words for how insensitive and assy your comment is.
Reply

Her Grace was starred Her Grace was unstarred

FraggleIraq: No Longer Smells Like Teen Spirit
05/05/09

In reply to 17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy
a "false belief"? gender norms are a social construction. a false belief would be acquiring a societal institution as right, i.e. staying female, when you know in your heart what's right for you. forcing him to stay female would be a false belief on the part of the majority since he clearly identifies as male. it would also be forcing alex to live a false life. he's not hurting anyone, so i don't see what the problem is. i think that the judge did the right thing by okaying the surgery.
Reply

J.D.Regent
05/05/09

@FraggleIraq: what, it's not "genetic" that I enjoy having breasts and being referred to as "she"?
Reply

J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred

JerkoftheMonth
05/06/09

@FraggleIraq: I agree with you all on this issue, however isn't there a point we're missing? If gender and sex are only constructs, than why are gender reassignment surgeries necessary? If we stopped classifying people into men and women - and the accompanying characteristics - people could just be the gender they feel is right regardless of what their body looks like. In a way I feel that GRS is just another format for adherence to gender norms. When women don't like their bodies - don't feel that they are the 'right' body for them - they can get plastic surgery, but this is not something that is indicative of a culture with healthy body image. I think that it would be best for transgender people to accept their body as it is and live as whatever gender they want to, though this may be difficult.
Reply

JerkoftheMonth was starred JerkoftheMonth was unstarred

Earlier discussions Other discussions Show all discussions Show featured discussions only Start a new discussion

#mastectomy

Jezebel

SUBSCRIBE TO Jezebel

17 Year-Old Granted Permission For Double Mastectomy

Geishas In Kyoto Sick Of Tourist Attention • Pakistan Launches Investigation Into Taliban Flogging Of Young Girl

Login

Reset Password

Register

Submit Your Comment