Mark Penn - Jezebel

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Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
Mark Penn Defends Men, Idiocy
James Carville Blames Mark Penn For Hillary's Loss
Barack Obama Stays Hot While We Freeze
Presidential Poll: Women Scorn Sexist Media, Feminists
Kwame Kilpatrick Waves Goodbye to Denver Dreams
Who Knows Things? John McCain Knows Things!
Memo To Hillary Clinton: You Should Have Done The Sexism Speech
Raise Your Hand, John Edwards, If You're Sure That This Is The End
Vanity Fair And The New Yorker Expose The Clandestine Operations That Sabotaged Iran, Hillary's Wardrobe

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pesematology
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
Maybe the lack of beer and TV time is what makes the supposed "elite" such azzholes? I suggest a round of Schlitz and season one of House for all the Sotomayor-questioners.
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amowls
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
If only elites read for pleasure, Plum Sykes would be out of a job.
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ellaesther
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
I love Rachel Maddow. I do. I was even cooing over her hair last night! And that whole getting gear for the Iraqi baseball team thing, and then asking people to donate elsewhere because they've got the baseball team covered? I love her!!

But the "Uncle Pat" shit? Makes me want to de-friend her, and I'm not even on facebook. Look, if you have an actual uncle who is a racist, sexist, generally repugnant collection of skin and bones - fine. Family is family, he will always be your uncle, and you find a way to make peace and have conversation at the reunion. When he is all those things and NOT your uncle? Don't give him cute nicknames, as if his winning smile somehow mitigates a single damn thing that is wrong with him. I won't be watching tonight, because he makes me want to throw things, or move to Mars, and her calling him "Uncle Pat" does not help.

/end childish rant.
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Edited by ellaesther at 07/16/09 10:51 AM ellaesther was starred ellaesther was unstarred

thegogglesdonothing
07/16/09

@ellaesther: I'll admit that although I find the substance of Pat Buchanan's political philosophy repellant, I sort of respect the fact that he actually says what he believes rather than dressing it in a sea of code words. I feel like when someone engages Pat Buchanan in debate, he really does debate his beliefs rather than engage in ad-hominem attack Kabuki theatre like Hannity, O'Reilly et al. I think it's a good and valuable thing. There was a good article on the Root about Buchanan a couple weeks back saying basically the same thing: http://www.theroot.com/views/save-pat-buchanan
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ellaesther
07/16/09

@thegogglesdonothing: I'm sorry, are you saying something reasonable? I can't hear you over the sound of my fists and feet pounding the floor in rapid succession. What was that?

/slinks off to read The Root....
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BearDownCBears
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
I have this theory, and it might be totally wrong: I think a lot of people believe that the political divide will become less contentious once the fundies relinquish control of the GOP to the swelling libertarian ranks. The thinking is once the debate is about economic and foreign policy logistics rather than moral ideology, arguments will be more civil. But if you think about it, liberals currently blow off right-wingers as absurd and separated from reality (and vice-versa). However, if liberals are forced to deal with a more grounded, pragmatic foe, the debate will become a true rhetorical contest for the middle-roaders. The stakes will be so high you might see the old-school liberals trot out some marxist rhetoric we haven't seen in a while.

To tell you the truth, I'm kind of looking forward to it. Remember when Gore Vidal called Buckley a fascist and Buckley threatened to jack him in the face? This culture war shit, by contrast, is banal and arcane.
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Flackette Goes Retro
07/16/09

@BearDownCBears: I would love to see a non-moralizing, totally policy-driven GOP. It might even convince me to go back to the dark side (I'm an ex-Republican) if they would get rid of the religious crazies. Because when it comes down to it, I am pretty fiscally conservative - I left because I couldn't take the thinly veiled racism and sexism, the retrograde moralizing and the religious fanaticism

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J.D.Regent
07/16/09

@BearDownCBears: i just don't think there are enough smart libertarian conservatives to have a consistently successful national party. I would love to see a schism myself.
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jeninmotion
07/16/09

@BearDownCBears: The problem is, serious libertarians are no more serious than the right-wing religious circus. In fact, they're worse. Sarah Palin isn't going to debate me on the utility of public roads and firefighters and most smart people realize that social conservatism has a heavily racist/misogynist streak.

Libertarians, on the other hand, will advocate to cut programs that allow women and non-white people to even try for equality, but people say, "it's for FREEDOM" and not because less government services in the US basically favor white men, and people are like, "but libertarians are with us on pot and abortion." Me: "You mean like libertarian hero Ron Paul...oh wait."

Then again, I think most people have a hard time recognizing that the way you run a household, an individual bank account, or even a sole proprietorship business isn't really a good economic model for government, because in your life, if there's a bad behavior that's a cost sink, you can cut it. A lot of government "cost sinks" are things like, y'know, educating special needs kids. Or running high speed internet to communities who will never be economically sound to do so.

I don't think you can really trust a political position that is so strongly influenced by a non-concept of the public good. It's just a poor choice.
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thegogglesdonothing
07/16/09

@BearDownCBears: I think that many of the smart libertarians might be breaking ranks. The Cato Institute is hosting liberal-libertarian mixers now and I've heard some serious talk from some of the headier libertarian types about finding more common ground with liberals.
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BearDownCBears
07/16/09

@jeninmotion: I think maybe you just made my point.
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Little Green Frog (Wise Latina)
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
The GOP is only opposed to government spending for programs that benefit poor people -- but ones that indoctrinate us are just fine."

You forgot the Defense spending programs. Case in point: the F22. The DoD DOES NOT want them, and yet Chambliss (my senator unfortunately) keeps pushing it. And not because it is made here in Georgia, oh, no, sir.

I heard him say that it's not up to Defense to tell them how to spend money. Wha???
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J.D.Regent
07/16/09

@Little Green Frog: oh god I was freaking about this yesterday. Why don't they just support welfare and social programs? They are doing the same thing, but in a totally stupid and inefficient way. I want to STRANGLE Saxby Chambliss.
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BearDownCBears
07/16/09

@J.D.Regent: 2 thoughts:

-They are then being INDUSTRIOUS!

-Defense funds are pooled from national revenue, whereas a lot of social services come from your particular state, which must balance its budget.
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pax
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
Thanks for the Rahm love. They showed him on Olbermann last night walking out of this parking lot with a big smile on his face. I said to my husband, "He probably just got done slashing some tires."
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Little Green Frog (Wise Latina)
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
Myyyy eyeeessss! Megan, don't ever do that again. I was looking at the Rahm pic, and then I scrolled down and choked.
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Edited by Little Green Frog (Wise Latina) at 07/16/09 10:42 AM

pax
07/16/09

@Little Green Frog: I know just what you mean. I can be looking at Rahm and kind of forget about everything else.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
While much of the American public unwinds with TV, beer and videogames, our elites are heading for the gym and buying books: exercise and reading are their favorite leisure time activities.

So, I guess I am now a member of the American elite. Who knew?
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TheFormerJuneBronson
07/16/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: I know, my self-esteem is really on the uptick. Well, I didn't use a treadmill. Damn.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
07/16/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: Well, it would certainly explain why I ate arugula in my crepe last night. And crepes are, like, French, right? Sputnik the elitist, I am.
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morninggloria
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
It's hilarious that conservatives are trying to pin the global collapse in the economy (in the making since the late 90's) on Obama's spending, most of which has yet to occur. Only a tiny fraction of the original stimulus has actually been spent because government moves very slowly in actually spending money (once they get spending, though, they sure do spend like a champion). Paul Krugman as well as some economists that conservatives don't revile think that this first stimulus might not be enough and are already calling for a second stimulus. So, yeah, fuckwads. Spending is what is prolonging this recession. Not an institutional credit freeze, not banks refusing to lend to consumers, not skyrocketing unemployment, not reduced consumer spending. It's 100%, completely, entirely government spending allottments over the last six months. Great detective skills, Captain Economagic.
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Edited by morninggloria at 07/16/09 10:31 AM morninggloria was starred morninggloria was unstarred

TheFormerJuneBronson
07/16/09

@morninggloria:Ifeel physically ill whenever the assorted conservatives I know start in on Obama and the economy exactly as if it isn't obvious that any mess this big is a lot more than eight months in the making. It's even more than eight years in the making. I want to scream at them to try forming an independent opinion for a change, but then I decide to go book-shopping and just not think about it. We got our change of administration; now is the time to press forward, not argue with irrational people.
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morninggloria
07/16/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: Unfortunately, these irrational people will use their irrational arguments to fearmonger the fuck out of irrational American voters in the next election. Most Americans don't understand how any of this shit works. I blame politicians taking advantage of the fact that most Americans don't have time to learn how this shit works.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
07/16/09

@morninggloria:That's pretty much how all politicians work, though, to be fair. They want to be re-elected. Some liberals will tell you what you want to hear so you'll cough up more in taxes, which is often the situation here in MA, and conservatives will tell their constituents what they want to hear so they'll go around talking about hot-button moral issues and vilifying people. Though that division could be drawn either way, as evidenced by the fuckpile of taxpayer money spent on the Iraq war since 9/11, and certain liberals' tendency to heat up the mommy wars and the rights of animals.

The question is, what can we do now. They're irrational; they aren't listening. We have the political advantage. We can't vote in the midterm elections now; we can keep pressing forward and working on our agenda and trying to make things better for everyone.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
07/16/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: " I want to scream at them to try forming an independent opinion for a change"
Good luck with that. Personally, I prefer to focus on countersurveillance.
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morninggloria
07/16/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: I couldn't agree with you more. I think that democracy isn't that great of an idea sometimes.
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jeninmotion
07/16/09

@morninggloria: As I said in a longer way above, people have no concept that what is a smart way to run a personal budget is not really the best way to run a government. Average Person X is surviving by cutting costs, so it seems logical that that's how the government should roll.

Unfortunately, that's actually one of the worst ways to handle a true economic crisis (now, should real waste be cut? Of course, but the realest wastes of our time, like the War on Drugs and out of control defense spending, aren't even on the table. Waste becomes, "funding our nation's scientists, because the Internet didn't come out of government basic research funds or anything...OH WAIT" and that's what's truly frustrating.
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dianersb was bit by a zombie
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
Oh, Michael Steele. This morning on CNN he implied that President Obama wasn't trying to help black people, and that only the republican party was helping black people.

Chairman Steele, I do believe if you are going to say things like that you have to back it up with policies that, I don't know, help minorities.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
07/16/09

@dianersb was bit by a zombie: He means Lincoln's Republican Party. Shhh, now.
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MizJenkins
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
Is anyone watching this shit?!!!!!

"Do you understand that America is bigger than the Bronx"?!?!?!

FUCK YOU Lindsey Graham. You might want to take away my right to bear arms after this. SERIOUSLY.
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Edited by MizJenkins at 07/16/09 10:32 AM MizJenkins was starred MizJenkins was unstarred

anibundel
07/16/09

@MizJenkins: One wonders if Graham understands that America is bigger than his ever shrinking fundie-driven "real america" base?
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cate3710
07/16/09

@MizJenkins: It also includes 4 other boroughs!

I would love to retort with something along the lines of "Do you understand that American includes more than white men?"
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NefariousNewt
07/16/09

@cate3710: The problem is, that, as far as he's concerned, America contains more than white men, but white men are the ones best fit to rule it.
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TheUptightMidwesterner
07/16/09

@MizJenkins: The only way I could listen to the hearings on NPR was when I was outside building a fence. Having a hammer, saw,drill and various items to hit close by made it much more tolerable.
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ellaesther
07/16/09

@MizJenkins: Honey, you're in France. You've already given up any right to say anything. (Didn't they tell you this when you left for the summer?)
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NefariousNewt
07/16/09

@TheUptightMidwesterner: After Graham's first round of questioning, I had to go home and pull weeds.
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MizJenkins
07/16/09

@ellaesther: Yeah, well...don't make me come back there muh'fuckers!! I've only been here a week and already I'm twice as surly.
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morninggloria
07/16/09

@MizJenkins:He doesn't understand the difference between Sotomayor and JLo. It wasn't Sotomayor who sang that song! Sotomayor has never claimed to still be Sonia from the block! He was obviously fooled by JLo's rocks.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
07/16/09

@cate3710: "It also includes 4 other boroughs!"
Two snaps and a Subway Series, baby.

"I would love to retort with something along the lines of "Do you understand that American includes more than white men?""
Well, I don't think they've passed an ordinance -- yet -- that prohibits that. I for one would definitely encourage you.
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haus_frau
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
What is with the insurgence of socialism/communism paranoia? I'd love to slap whoever decided to start that up again. Anything that isn't for strict personal gain is now communist or socialist. It's completely illogical.

An example: My mom, fervent and crazy Republican that she is, told me yesterday that the pooling of supplies in my son's upcoming kindergarten class is communist.
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bluebears
07/16/09

@haus_frau: I know its so bizarre. I feel like all of a sudden there's this "red scare" mentality which seems so out of place with the actual world we live in (i.e. no USSR etc)
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Zombie Ms. Skittles
07/16/09

@haus_frau: Well, I guess *technically* it's communist, but seriously?! WTF?
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haus_frau
07/16/09

@Zombie Ms. Skittles: That was my reaction too. I have no idea what to say to something that is so utterly ridiculous. You cannot have a logical debate with the crazy.
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Atomic Bowling
07/16/09

@haus_frau: A communist class marker box! Is it filled only with RED markers??? :)

Seriously, though, it drives me nuts when people do that "It's COMMUNIST!" about every little thing that involves even a vague sense of group effort. Do you drive on public roads? Do/did your children attend public schools? Are you planning to collect your social security? Is your house wired for utilities you use? Do you have health insurance? Are you able to exist completely off the grid? No??? Then you're a friggin' "communist" too, so shut up about it already!
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morninggloria
07/16/09

@haus_frau: The funny thing about that is that if the US actually doled out an equal share of wealth to everyone in the country, the vast, vast, vast majority of people would be much better off. I don't think that people who fear socialism understand just how big the gap is between rich and poor, or even between rich and middle class.
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Atomic Bowling
07/16/09

@bluebears: I think it's at least partially because they can't say what they really want to say, which is "HE'S A BLACK MUSLIM TERRORIST OMG OMG OMG!!!"

Well, ok, some of them are indeed saying that. But I do still think that it's a way of releasing unacceptable feelings in "acceptable" ways. It's also probably a way of trying to turn back the clock by stirring up deep feelings in older Americans who still remember that era. A lot of people I think about forty and older had a fear of "commies" ground into them as children, particularly the baby boomers. Even though people may now consciously realize that that's a silly fear, many still have a visceral reaction to anything (rightly or wrongly) labeled "communist" or "socialist".
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TheFormerJuneBronson
07/16/09

@haus_frau: I don't know; I find that suddenly the degree of something's capitalism is a factor in conversations with people who never once brought it up before, and it's really annoying. How did we ever get along with our capitalist economy when people persisted in being kind to one another on the side?!
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Zombie Ms. Skittles
07/16/09

@haus_frau: See, the thing is, when *I* was a child, we called that "sharing."
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SarahMC
07/16/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: They never brought it up before because we've never had a black POTUS before. It's a dog-whistle. They know they can't get away with saying "nigger" in mixed company so they veil everything.
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amowls
07/16/09

@haus_frau: Sweet jesus, Communism =/= authortarian dictatorship. I think Republicans like to forget that Hitler was a capitalist.
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Flackette Goes Retro
07/16/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: Witness: my mother, a 58 year old retired French teacher, who is suddenly going on about the merits of capitalism.
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bluebears
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
I'm amazed that with Sessions sitting on the committee I've come to regard Graham as the most offensive in his questioning.
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NefariousNewt
07/16/09

@bluebears: Sessions is Old Guard -- Graham is part of the "new Republican Party."

What has me perplexed, is that Graham honestly believes that these are important issues, namely her speeches, as if her speeches have mobilized hordes of followers and they are going to begin storming the mansions of bitter old white men and drag them into the street.
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bluebears
07/16/09

@NefariousNewt: based on the last few days he appears to be the most dim and infuriating asshole I've ever heard speak. How does he get elected?
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NefariousNewt
07/16/09

@bluebears: Not to denigrate everyone who loves there, but: South Carolina. It was the first state to secede from the Union during The Civil War. They are still rebelling after more than a century.
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SarahMC
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
"It's the stupidest fucking strategy ever unless their only strategy is to appeal to pissed off white guys. Which, apparently, it is."

Didn't Pat Buchanan admit as much? He basically said the GOP needs to step up its race-baiting.
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Little Green Frog (Wise Latina)
07/16/09

@SarahMC: I'm doing this!: Pat Buchanan gives us Catholics such a BAD rep.
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NefariousNewt
07/16/09

In reply to Finally: Race-Baiting Repubs Get Honest About Their Racism
No, Senator Graham, the people don't understand the role of the SCOTUS in societal change.

And he just admitted that he wants Justice's that think "just like us," which is to say as grumpy, bigoted white men.
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MizJenkins
07/16/09

@NefariousNewt: I mean this is the most blatant and aggressive defense of racism I've seen in a really long time. It's not even thinly veiled.
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NefariousNewt
07/16/09

@MizJenkins: And this is why I don't like publicly televised confirmation hearings. Graham is pandering to his constituents, his followers, those people who are closet racists, saying "don't cross us, Lady. We know you'll be on the bench, but we'll be watching you."

Graham is the most reprehensible form of politician -- the moralizer.
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MizJenkins
07/16/09

@NefariousNewt: See, and this is why I do like publicly televised confirmation hearings. Voter turnout in Congressional elections is already deplorable. I guarantee you there are millions of forward-thinking people in SC who have no idea that this crackerjackass is speaking and voting for them. They NEED to know. I hope they're watching.
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Edited by MizJenkins at 07/16/09 10:40 AM MizJenkins was starred MizJenkins was unstarred

NefariousNewt
07/16/09

@MizJenkins: Perhaps. Frankly, I'm just tired of assholes like Graham having a bully-pulpit the thump their chests from and lecture the rest of us on how "immoral" we are. People don't want to hear the truth, to hear reasoned and logical arguments; they want to watch people be torn down, see them raked over the coals. This confirmation hearing is the Congressional version of The Real Housewives of New Jersey.
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MizJenkins
07/16/09

@NefariousNewt: Also...

"And he just admitted that he wants Justice's that think "just like us," which is to say as grumpy, bigoted white men.

...thus, Clarence Thomas.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
07/16/09

@MizJenkins: You better preach. Sexual harassment and all.

How is it over there this time of year? There are times when I think about going to Bercy for the tournament and just ... staying.
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Edited by Rooo sez BISH PLZ at 07/16/09 11:22 AM Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred

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