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Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
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hydrogen_jukebox
08/11/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
You know, since I was in fifth grade I was taught that there are so many better adjectives out there to use than just deigning to use "nice". It's too general of a description, used by the lazy or confused.

I would describe Emma Watson, for instance, as a confident and upstanding young woman, who comes off as charming and sweet as well as smart and professional.
Nice, right?
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kolea
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
My best guy friend is dating one of these "nice girls" right now. She just got kicked out of her apartment by her roommates, and none of her "friends" bothered to show up to her birthday or grad party. I'm counting down the minutes till they break up. But she doesn't drink, or have sex, would never do drugs and is at mass every Sunday.
Even when I was going through my crazy phase, (drinking my face off, doing lots of drugs to the point of excess, sleeping around) I was still nice to people. I still have all of the same friends I had then. I didn't (and still don't) have a whole lot of conflict or drama in my life...and I don't think I'm an exception to the rule.
Being nice isn't a lifestyle. It's a character trait.
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JLady
08/11/09

@kolea: Hear hear!
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Awry
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
I hate the word "nice". Its been twisted in such a way. "Nice" girls are boring as hell and "Nice" guys are passive agressive wankers. Whereas in reality, I'm a nice person - I'm polite and kind and try hard to choose my words in such a way that people aren't hurt by them. All of my friends are the same ... or they wouldn't be my friends. We still like a drink and are very proficient at profanity when the need arises (or when we know there is no one around who will take it badly). It really makes me worry that we're STILL so one dimentional when it comes to what people should be.

As Siris Black said, the world isn't made up of good people and death eaters, everyone has shades of grey.
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Everything MidnightBikeRide does is a balloon. promoted this comment Edited by Awry at 08/10/09 6:52 PM Awry was starred Awry was unstarred

GirlyQ is a manta ray
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
I'm raunchy, I love to drink, I love to swear. I am also friendly, funny, and intensely loyal. I sleep with whomever I want, and volunteer. 10% of my income goes to charity, and another 10% probably goes into going out. I'm not a good girl or a bad girl. Compliments and swears both come out of my mouth. I am nothing but ME, and I don't think I much care if what I am is in or out, or fitting myself into one of two categories. It's stupid to pretend any woman or man is one or the other.
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quatrevingtquatre
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
I don't think being a nice girl means being passive. I think being a nice girl has a lot to do with making good choices. Like I don't believe for a moment that Emma Watson doesn't party or drink, but I think she does so in a discreet way. Going to college and getting an education isn't passive, but instead is planning ahead for a future. My favorite celebs have always been the ones I don't read about in gossip rags. They're probably "the nice ones" but they're also the ones who I will never see falling drunkenly out of a cab or a club with no panties or hurling insults at random people or starting dumb feuds on Twitter.
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Perhaps Not
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
Er, also, I can't think of a worse model for female (or male, for that matter) behavior than the heroine of the Twilight books. Not to be a total buzzkill, but the notion that you should marry your high school stalkerboy with whom you are totes-for-sure in love and then drop out of life so that his rich parents will provide for you after you marry him, which you only do because he won't fuck you, is a piss-poor one. Amirite?
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
I clicked through the Good Girls Gallery at the Daily Beast (I'm feeling rather masochistic today I guess) and there seems to be a strong emphasis on Christianity and abstinence. They even make a point to say that Jordin Sparks sang at pro-life events. I mean no disrespect to those who are devout Christians and/or don't believe in sex before marriage, but there is a strong implication here that the way to be a good and responsible person is through Christianity. Being a Christian doesn't automatically make you a responsible person, nor does having sex outside of marriage (or drinking for that matter) make you an irresponsible one.
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clevernamehere
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
"Nice Girl" doesn't have to mean passivity and an inability to deal with conflict. When I think of a nice girl (or guy) I don't assume they are so pathologically nice that they will put up with anything.
But if this means that edgy is losing a bit of its appeal, I am all for it. Edgy is so overdone and boring, both in real life and in entertainment. More often than not it just means "I'm an asshole, but I expect you to be impressed with my asshole behavior." Yawn.
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YourScreenplaySucks
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
How boring. In a language full of adjectives, why must we only aspire to seeming nice or "bad"? Why can't it be hip & trendy to just be happy? Or grumpy? Or sleepy, dopey, or sneezy? Don't limit me! Naughty or nice cannot contain my multitudes.
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casi nadie (loves MCC forever)
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
How about simply admiring some actresses/singers/what have yous for being talented, intelligent, or simply interesting? Or is that too rational? Do my perceptions of the entire world have to fit into neat little stereotypical categories?
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Penny
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
A few things....

For starters, the raunchiest girls tend to be pretty.....boring. Certainly in bed. The one's I have known, that is. Same for dudes.

Secondly, this totally dichotomizes, as usual, a certain group--bad/good, virgin/whore, blah blah blah.....

In my opinion, being nice is ALWAYS a positive thing, and it always has been. You can have a sailor's mouth and do drugs and have lots of sex and still be a nice person.

Being nice, for me, is not about being proper. It's about listening to people, being respectful of other's differences, being open to people who may not be like you, etc.

Being a nice person is different than being a Nice Girl, which insinuates a certain passivity. And, nice people will always finish first. Maybe not in spoils, but putting positive ju-ju out into the world is the most important thing, in the end.
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greengrey
08/10/09

@Penny: "Being a nice person is different than being a Nice Girl, which insinuates a certain passivity."
Yes. Especially since they say "nice girl" and not "nice woman". Semantics are important.
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TexasCrude
08/10/09

@Penny: Being nice, for me, is not about being proper. It's about listening to people, being respectful of other's differences, being open to people who may not be like you, etc.
Big ups, dude. I've always thought you could be kind without having to wear bloomers or hold a parasol of some kind.
I smoke weed until I can't see straight but I'm considerate, you know? I always share!
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Casquivana
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
Ah, the madonna/whore objectification!! Even teens and Disney stars must be defined within those parameters!!
Is there any way people start thinking of women as complex entities instead of clichés??
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jigglyball
08/10/09

@Casquivana: Not to worry, women have been stereotyped as overly complex/ complicated too.
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Edited by jigglyball at 08/10/09 5:21 PM jigglyball was starred jigglyball was unstarred

greengrey
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
Do we have to be "raunchy" or "nice"? No grey area, as usual, I guess. Though I disagree that it's cool to be nice. It's cool to be sneering and sarcastic, or least I like to think it is.
And am I alone in thinking that telling women/girls to act nice is just another way of telling them to shut up and look pretty?
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MizJenkins
08/10/09

@greengrey: How about a greengrey area? Wherein you can be nice until a bitch looks at you the wrong way or calls you a "good girl" and then you can cut them? I would live in this area.
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haguenite
08/10/09

@greengrey:
You'd better watch out, you'd better not cry
You'd better not pout, I'm telling you why
Patriarchy's coming to town
He's making a list, checking it twice
Gonna find out who's raunchy or nice
Patriarchy's coming to town.
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Plum-Pie
08/10/09

@haguenite: Pedestal or gutter? Choose your choice!
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HighSchoolFearleader
08/10/09

In reply to Nice Girls Finish First — Or Is It Last?
I think that the media should stop labeling women as "good girls" or "bad girls". No one is all good or all bad. Can't we enjoy celebrities without putting them into boxes?
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slowpoke.r
08/10/09

@HighSchoolFearleader: And most of them are not girls. Can we stop calling grown women girls, already?
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HighSchoolFearleader
08/10/09

@slowpoke.r: Ugh, that's definitely one of my pet peeves. I don't understand the infantilization of women in the media. It's rare that grown men are called "good boys" and "bad boys". Double standards make me stabby.
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Edited by HighSchoolFearleader at 08/10/09 5:33 PM

slowpoke.r
08/10/09

@HighSchoolFearleader: I know, can you imagine anyone calling a thirty-some-odd year old actor a boy in any context? But it happens with women all the time. It makes me insane.
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