Was Marilyn Monroe a plus-sized beauty? An average dame? A svelte sphinx who's been a posthumous victim of vanity size deflation? Like the Bible and the Nazis, she's become a rhetorical gambit that can seemingly be twisted to support any argument. The argument has been further confused by various celebrities' authoritative pronouncements. Liz Hurley made perhaps her most lasting contribution to the cultural lexicon when she notoriously declared to Allure, "I've always thought Marilyn Monroe looked fabulous, but I'd kill myself if I was that fat...I went to see her clothes in the exhibition, and I wanted to take a tape measure and measure what her hips were. (laughter) She was very big." Roseanne, for her part, stated in '96 that, "I'm more sexy than Pamela Lee or whoever else they've got out there these days. Marilyn Monroe was a size 16. That says it all."

Okay, first of all, when folks toss around the "Size 16" thing, yes, that's a British 16, by which they mean a U.S. Size 12. (Although it should be said that some have made the claim for the U.S. 16, too.) Then too, this doesn't even make a lot of sense, because most of Marilyn's clothes, and certainly her costumes, like those of any star of the era, would have been custom-made. And as anyone who's seen her films knows, her weight shifted a lot, so any "Marilyn Monroe was X size" statement is, stopped clock-style, probably going to be accurate at some point.

But if people demand numbers? They're certainly out there. According to measurements from Marilyn Monroe's dressmaker:
Height: 5 feet, 5½ inches
Weight: 118-140 pounds
Bust: 35-37 inches
Waist: 22-23 inches
Hips: 35-36 inches
Bra size: 36D

In other words, whatever her size, her figure was an unusually dramatic hour-glass, which makes it kind of strange for women to compare themselves to her anyway. When a collector displayed a bunch of her most famous costumes in London recently, "they had to get a special mold made for the corset and swimwear dummies in the exhibition because Monroe was such an extreme hourglass shape that no off-the-peg dummies existed in those measurements."

So, what size was she? Well, like most women, she wasn't one size everywhere. When British journalist Sara Buys had a chance to try on some of Marilyn's clothes earlier this year, she reported:

After all these years, mystery and conspiracy theories still surround her death, but when it comes to her physical attributes, I can put a few facts straight. Contrary to received wisdom, she was not a voluptuous size 16 – quite the opposite. While she was undeniably voluptuous – in possession of an ample bosom and a bottom that would look at home gyrating in a J-Lo video – for most of the early part of her career, she was a size 8 and even in her plumper stages, was no more than a 10. I can tell you this from experience because a few weeks ago, I tried to try on her clothes.

Okay, now we have to translate British sizes. (HuffPo, adding to the confusion, neglected to do this in their link headline from April.) Depending on the designer, a British 10 might translate as an 8, a 6, or even a 4. And vintage clothes of that era were cut slim, intended to be worn with serious girdles, so take this into account. The answer? There's no "exact" number. All we can know for sure is that Marilyn Monroe was a gorgeous, dramatically curvaceous woman with a physique heavier and curvier than that which is en vogue now.

The better question is, why do we care? To show the evolution of our aesthetic, certainly. And obviously, curvier women were the ideal - and whatever the verdict on Marilyn, stars like Jane Russell and Esther Williams were more voluptuous, larger-framed and more athletic than almost any we see on the screen today. But stars were always thin and urged by the studios to be thinner (see: Judy Garland.) Maybe part of the Marilyn fixation is what Buys gets at: with a figure so enigmatic, we want to pin down as many facts as we can. And what we're really talking about is not Marilyn Monroe's dress size: it's her sexiness. Marilyn Monroe was an icon, not of fashion, but of sexiness: a combination of her beauty, her obvious comfort with her physicality, her intelligence, and her vulnerability. Her dress size does not explain this, or give us a clue: she is iconic because she was unique, and no amount of arguing is going to change that.

It's not about proving whether Marilyn Monroe was "plus-sized" or not; obviously, plus-sized women can be beautiful and sexy, whether Marilyn belongs to the sorority or no. Can we make a resolution, please? Let's leave Marilyn Monroe out of the discussion from now on. She was a beautiful woman with an iconic body of work and a fanatical following, but her dress size - which fluctuated and had very little relation to the clothes and styles we wear today - has nothing to do with your size, my size, or that of anyone in Hollywood today. Comparing oneself to anyone is counterproductive, and in this case it's futile. Marilyn was someone who was comfortable with her body, and it's this that comes through. So let's follow her example - and leave the woman in peace.

Was Marilyn Monroe Really A Size 16? [Huffington Post]
Was Marilyn Monroe A Size 16? [London Times]
Downsizing Figures [Chicago Sun-Times]
With Respect to Roseanne [The New Yorker]
Marilyn Monroe Facts [Marilyn Monroe Pages]

• Adam Lambert put an end to the speculation about his sexuality by going out to a nightclub last night with his boyfriend Drake LaBry. The two held hands and occasionally kissed.

• "When people saw Adam walk in all heads turned in his direction," said a source. "And it was obvious Adam was so proud to be there with Drake. So proud. As people were coming over to meet the singer Adam made a point to turn to Drake and introduce him to the crowd as his boyfriend." [Star]
• Michael Jackson told the promoter who is planning to sue him to perform in a concert with Janet Jackson and the Jackson 5 that he will do the concert in 2010. However, the promoter says he doesn't trust Jackson's word and he'll still sue unless he signs a contract. [TMZ]
• Diversity, the dance group that beat Susan Boyle, has already been booked by Kanye West to performat the Wireless Festival at London's Hyde Park in July, and it's rumored the Michael Jackson wants to work with them. [The Sun]
• Seven out of 10 Brits think Susan Boyle shouldn't have been allowed to appear on Britain's Got Talent according to a survey of 3,000 people. The article notes that she has "learning difficulties," and that people feel contestants on reality shows should undergo psychological testing before competing. [The Telegraph]
• At the trial yesterday of Tiny Virginia Makopo, the former matron of Oprah's school for girls, a teacher testified that Makopo forced one of the girls to watch pornography. [The Daily Mail]
• Here's some clips of Spencer and Heidi Pratt on the first episode of I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here complaining that they're big celebrities, and they want NBC executives to get them out of there. It's may be fake drama for the cameras. Bonus: At the end of the clip Heidi eats a rat's tail. [TMZ]
• Or maybe it's not so fake. After Spencer and Heidi Pratt quit and rejoined the show several times during the first episode, NBC flew in Daniel Baldwin to join his brother Stephen Baldwin, who is already in the jungle, and Holly Montag, Heidi's sister. [People]
• Last night Lauren Conrad's last episode of The Hills aired. She wrote on her blog: It was a bittersweet night for me. A part of me is sad to say goodbye to something that has been such a prominent part of my life, but I know that it was time and I am very happy with my decision," adding, "From what I've heard the next season will not disappoint." [Perez Hilton]
• Last night's episode of Jon and Kate Plus 8 showed Kate Gosselin celebrating her birthday with the kids while Jon Gosselin was in Utah with friends for a few days. Now a source says that his girlfriend Deanna Hummel was in Utah with him too. In other news, TLC has ordered 40 more episodes of the show and posted an ad on Craigslist looking for more families with multiples who want to appear on TLC. [The L.A. Times]
• The trophy Shawn Johnson won on Dancing With the Stars is in peices. "We had to take them to New York and they shipped them back and when they opened the box, they were in pieces," said her dancing partner Mark Ballas. "They're fixing them." [E!]
• 50 Cent said in court today that he wouldn't have bought Mike Tyson's mansion if he knew it needed millions in renovations. He's suing BVH Integrated Services, which he hired to inspect the home for him. They estimated it needed $500,000 in repairs, but so far 50 Cent has spent $6 million. [Associated Press]
• 50 Cent will star in the police corruption drama Caught in the Crossfire with Chris Klein and Adam Rodriquez. [Variety]
• After having dinner together at Tom Hanks' house, Jennifer Aniston invited Paul McCartney over to her home for lunch. [The Sun]
• Brandy has reached a settlement with the children of the woman who died in her 2006 car crash. Awatef Aboudihaj's two kids will receive $300,000 each. Her husband rejected Brandy's settlement offer in February. [TMZ]
• Though some have claimed Robert Pattinson has airbrushed-on abs in New Moon, costar Kellan Lutz says he's been training with fellow star Taylor Lautner. "Taylor been training Rob a lot, and that's why he's got such ripped abs. Rob's been working hard. He's trying to be the best he can be," says Lutz. [The Daily Express]
• Another day, another Robert Pattinson-Kristen Stewart rumor. A source says, "Robert and Kristen spent a lot of alone time together when they filmed the first Twilight movie - they'd stay up most of the night talking, laughing, playing music. Although [Robert] knew Kristen had a boyfriend, he made no secret of the fact that he was crazy about her." [Perez Hilton]
• The Real Housewives of New Jersey werer on the fourth hour of the Today show this morning. Danielle Staub alluded to the allegations that she was involved ina kidnapping and extortion plot saying, "I can just say, it's out there and it will be addressed. And I will definitely touch on all the subjects that are crucially in need of touching on at the time when the time is right." Also, Jacqueline Laurita couldn't be on the show because she's about to give birth to her third child and Teresa Giudice is pregnant. [People]
• Zac Efron will make a cameo on Entourage. Here's some scintillating gossip from the Beverly Hills Niketown where he was filming: "He was filming a scene and talking on his cell phone," says one Niketown employee. "None of the other Entourage cast was here. He was really nice." [E!]
• Rashida Jones and Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau have been seen out together many times this past week, fueling rumors that they are dating. [Politico]
• Jamie Kennedy showed up for an interview on the Johnjay & Rich radio show yesterday with girlfriend Jennifer Love Hewitt in tow and she did most of the talking. She said he'd better propose to her by next year and talked about Carrie Underwood snubbing her. You can listen to it here: [Perez Hilton]
• When talking to a gossip columnist, Vanessa Minnillo pointed to a 5-carat ring on her middle finger and said, "It will be 10 carats when it moves to the fourth finger!" as a not-so-subtle hint to Nick Lachey. [People]
• Michael Hall, husband of Michael Caine's daughter Natasha, is being sued by a former business associate who says he didn't pay him his cut of a large property deal. [The Daily Express]
• Trent Reznor says his former protégé Marilyn Manson is "a malicious guy and will step on anybody's face to succeed and cross any line of decency. Seeing him now, drugs and alcohol now rule his life and he's become a dopey clown." [Rolling Stone]
• Stephen Dorff is reportedly dating his publicist. [The Daily Express]
• Joan Rivers is selling the Upper East Side penthouse she bought 20 years ago for $25 million. You can check out pictures of her home, which looks like it was modeled after Versailles, at the link. [New York Magazine]
• Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen went out together last night to celebrate a friend's birthday. An onlooker says, "They danced non-stop with their friends and playfully took photos of each other... They loved the music the deejay was spinning." [People]
• Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters visited a Palestinian refugee camp next to Israel's West Bank wall today. he said he hopes that "this thing, this awful thing, is destroyed soon." [Yahoo]
• Madonna will perform in Tel Aviv on September 1 for the last stop on her Sticky and Sweet tour. Her website says she's "very excited about returning to Israel for my last and final show." [USA Today]
• It seems Morrissey has recovered from his undisclosed illness. He's rescheduled four cancelled concerts for later this summer. [The Independent]
• Exene Cervenka of the punk band X, co-lead vocalist has revealed that she has Multiple Sclerosis. "After some months of not feeling 100% healthy, I recently had some medical tests run and the prognosis is that I am suffering from Multiple Sclerosis," Cervenka said. "Apparently, it has been affecting me for quite some time." [Rolling Stone]
• Diane Kruger is considering moving to Vancouver to be closer to Joshua Jackson. "My boyfriend's show [Fringe] is being transferred there," says Kruger. "He's from there. I'm going up this weekend but to see what it's like." But, she says, "it doesn't matter where we're going to live. We have no attachments anywhere. Home is where the other person is and that's really great. I could live anywhere as long as he's there." [The Telegraph]
• When Sports Illustrated reporter Dan Patrick asked Danica Patrick about taking performance enhancing drugs, she made some innocuous joke about it not being cheating if you don't get caught. This caused a huge controversy in the racing community and now she's apologized saying, "The whole interview with Dan [Patrick], and every other interview I've ever done with Dan, the questioning comes from left field. It was just a joke and I really apologize if it came across any other way. ... It was a bad joke. There is a lot of sensitivity in our culture about [performance-enhancing drugs]. With all the baseball stuff, I've followed it and this is a real problem. It's a shame kids think they have to do this to get ahead. It's very dangerous. ... It's absolutely not what I'm about. I've learned my lesson on what I should be joking about." [Sports Illustrated]
• When asked if she loves being pregnant with twins, Molly Ringwald said, "No. I don't hate it, though. There is something wonderful about it." She added, "I find it difficult to be restricted in my movements and to feel vulnerable all the time. I am used to feeling very strong and active." [People]
• "I never hook up," says Katy Perry, "If I really like a person, then I'll go on a date. But you'll never catch me just randomly making out with someone. I'm not casual at all. I've always been into making a connection with someone. That's what it's all about for me. Besides, it's sexier to be mysterious and not give it away." [People]
• Beth Ditto of The Gossip says she's willing to start a "band feud" with Katy Perry. She explains, "['I Kissed A Girl'] is a] boner dyke anthem for straight girls who like to turn guys on by making out or, like, faking gay. I hate Katy Perry! She's offensive to gay culture, I'm so offended. She's just riding on the backs of our culture without having to pay any of the dues and not being actually lesbian or anything at all." [The Daily Express]
• Nia Vardalos says: "In 2004 I came to the end of a 10-year infertility battle that knocked me over. So I decided to just quietly withdraw and write, and I enjoyed it... Now having come through it, I highly recommend it. I think when you let go and try and stop making things happen, you come out of it quite invigorated," Vardalos told Reuters. [Reuters]
• Michael Sheen, who played Tony Blair in The Queen received an OBE from the real queen for his service to drama, even though Queen Elizabeth probably isn't familiar with his work. He said, "I heard through a fairly reliable source that there was an agreement she was not going to watch the film and Mr. Blair wasn't going to watch the film either." [The Star]

• Hillary Clinton has not agreed to be Obama's Secretary of State even if she is officially offered it. [Politico]
• She has, however, been asked to head Ted Kennedy's health reform task force next year. [The Hill]
• Mr. Jowls will remain the Chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security. Jane Hamsher and others say, in so many words, fuck that guy. [Politico, Firedoglake, Politico]
• Chuck Norris might be able to defeat ninjas, cowboys and anyone who talks back, but what he's really, really scared of is boys who like to kiss other boys (we assume that, like most raging homophobes, he furiously masturbates to girl-on-girl porn). Chuck Norris, I have watched gay bear porn and survived with nary a scratch. I double dog dare you. [Queerty]

• In the mean time, Eric Holder appears poised to become this country's first African-American attorney general. Some people have their panties all in a bunch that he might or might not have had something to do with the 11th hour pardon of Marc Rich in the Clinton Administration. [Newsweek]
• Beau Biden, on the other hand, will not accept an appointment to his father's Senate seat and will likely deploy to Iraq as planned. [Washington Post]
• Less gracious is outgoing Representative Marilyn Musgrave (R-Colorado) who has yet to officially concede the race she lost in a landslide to Democrat Betsy Markey or thank her staff, but what would you expect from the woman who staked her legislative career on trying to pass a Constitutional amendment to forever prohibit same sex marriage? [Politico]
• Speaking of controversial pardons, apparently Ted Stevens wants one. [Politico]
• Republicans are trying to decide whether to try and trample people's rights in order to regain some semblance of political relevance, or whether they'd like to try doing stuff for the Real Americans they so desperately swear they represent. [Huffington Post]
• Chuck Hagel pretty much said that Rush Limbaugh can go fuck himself during a speech. I say that all the time, Chuck! Want to grab a drink and make fun of him sometime? [CNN]
• Diane Sawyer conducted her interview with Ashley Alexandra Dupre, originally famous for fucking former New York Governor Eliot Spitzer for money, who, if this picture is any guide, will heretofore be known for sneaking into Sarah Palin's tanning beds one too many times and stealing Jane Fonda's steez from 9 to 5. It's unclear whether she actually says anything to make the interview worth watching, but since she's probably not going to dish about whether Spitzer really tried to fuck her up the ass without a condom while wearing his socks and singing show tunes, I'm guessing not. Fine, I never really heard rumors of show tunes. [Huffington Post]

• What kind of fuckery is this? Amy Winehouse borrowed some designer dresses. When she returned them, they were splattered with vomit. [Mirror]
• Some of the puke-stained dresses had developed furry mold on them. [Hey, I'm eating breakfast, lady! - Ed.] [CelebNewsWire]
• Meanwhile, Amy is trying to launch the singing career of her goddaughter, Dionne. [Mirror]
• Except at Dionne's gig, Amy was a total fucking mess. [Daily Mail]
• More "turmoil" for Brad and Angelina as Billy Bob Thornton says of Angie, "We're still close." Eh. [Daily Mail]

• Britney was seen wearing a black wig because she was shooting the video for her new song, "Womanizer," at a sushi lounge. She plays a waitress. [People]
• Julia Roberts was spotted covering up with a large pashmina so obviously she must be pregnant. [The Sun]
• Shia LaBeouf won't be charged with drunk driving in connection with his car accident in West Hollywood this summer. He refused a blood-alcohol test, though, so his license is going to be suspended. [LA Times]
• Clay Aiken's baby mama took pills for nausea during her pregnancy. Um, is that safe for the fetus? [Perez Hilton]
• Hayden Panettiere's dad has been charged with hitting her mom. It's a misdemeanor battery charge and he could face up to a year in jail if convicted. [Reuters]
• Chris Kattan and Sunshine Tutt were married for 59 days, but she'll get six figures in the divorce settlement. Which means being married to Kattan is worth at least $1,700 a day; a well-paying job. [TMZ]
• ANTM's Isis says she really wants to get the surgery to become biologically female but she doesn't have the cash: "I'm not working right now, but hopefully I get a lot of gigs from me being on the show. Once I save my money—hopefully within the next two years, that's my goal—I will have it done as soon as possible, so I can just get it out of the way." [E!]
• Megan Fox is so much more famous now that she has lost weight, gotten a nose job and plumped her lips. She was cute in this "before" picture though. [Socialite Life]
• The next time your phone rings, it could be Ellen DeGeneres, telling you to help yourself fight breast cancer. [AP]
• OMG no way: Melrose Place might be coming back. [UPI]
• Ricky Gervais to maybe host next year's Oscars? Are you having a laugh? [The Sun]
• Emma Watson looks AMAZING in this Italian Vogue photo shoot. [Daily Mail]
• Thanks to the presidential campaign, Saturday Night Live ratings are up 50%. [Variety]
• The Australians in Film Heath Ledger Scholarship has launched and Michelle Williams has stepped up as the first donor. [People]
• Mariska Hargitay blogs, very thoughtfully, about her character's rape storyline on SVU. [ONTD]
• Lauren Conrad and Chace Crawford "exchanged digits." They're "just friends." [E!]
• Mariah Carey will not appear on Oprah's show to announce that she is pregnant, because she is not, so if you heard that rumor, ignore it. [Perez Hilton]
• Kanye West is letting you remix his new single, "Love Lockdown," for free. Any takers? [Rolling Stone]
• Jay-Z and Norwegian production duo Stargate have announced the formation of StarRoc, a new New York-based music label. [UPI]
• Gwyneth Paltrow's mom says Gwyneth's marriage works "beautifully." All I can think is: GOOP. [People]
• Mackenzie Phillips is doing "great" in rehab. One day at a time! [People]
• A trash can designed by Bono sold for $30K. But it was a charity auction so it's not like someone was throwing their money away. [Mediabistro]
• Pete Doherty started playing a concert in Bournemouth, England and refused to stop. [Daily Express]
• Ladies and gentlemen, a message from Holly Madison: "Page 6 needs to check their 'facts.' Today Page 6 said that Bridget is married to a guy from Ohio??????????? Last time I checked, Bridget is divorced (after a 7 year seperation[sic]) from a guy from California…being that this is all a matter of public record, one would think you could check on that pretty easily." [Perez Hilton]
• Ed McMahon will appear in to viral rap videos for FreeCreditReport.com, and his "gangsta" outfit is so cringe-worthy it's basically like a minstrel show. [CNN, Portfolio]
• Helen Mirren will play an Israeli Massad agent in a new flick called The Debt. [Variety]
• Here's a first look at the poster for that probably crappy Tom Cruise movie Valkyrie — You know, where he plays a Nazi with an American accent? [Just Jared]
• Sarah Michelle Gellar may return to TV: An HBO show called The Wonderful Maladys. [Variety]
• Busta Rhymes was detained at an airport in London, then released. Woo-ha, got you all in check. [BBC News]
• Kid Rock says he's not really friends with Pam Anderson. "I touched stove, stove was hot, I think I not touch stove anymore." [People]
• Whoa: Robert Wagner once considered shooting Warren Beatty over Natalie Wood. [Reuters]
• The rare footage of Marilyn Monroe on the set of Some Like It Hot was sold Thursday for $14,700. [Reuters]
• Hmm, here's a lawsuit over nude pix of Marilyn. [AP]
• Terrence Howard's mother died after a long battle with cancer. [People]
• "I've been lucky to be able to make my own choices and not feel like I've been guided too much other than by my own instincts. I guess I get offered a certain type of role when it comes to mothers — they are generally not your predictable blonde on blonde mothers. They are spikier and more dangerous, and in this case, utterly self-delusional. Putting them together and finding the honest notes is always fun." — Angelica Huston, on her role in Choke. [Reuters]
• "'I'm a big fan of Jay-Z, but outside of the states and hip-hop circles, no one really knew who he was until he married Beyonce." — 50 Cent. [StereoHyped]
• "I believe that a woman should be paid the same amount as a man if she does the same job. I think that we're extraordinary creatures who can run a company and a house." — Natalie Cole. [Guardian]
• "I'm just a big believer in 'you must love yourself before you can love anybody else,' and I think for me that breeds the most inspired relationships. It's hard for me to have any proclamation about the right kind of love or how to love, because relationships are so complicated and there are so many ways to love. On one hand, there's obsessive love and committed love and the love that friends just have for one another." — Scarlett Johansson. [Perez Hilton]
• "Actors such as Daniel Day Lewis and Robert De Niro are often held up as ‘this is the way to act’ but I don’t go to bed dreaming and sleeping the character. There’s a lot of bullshit in acting. I’m not criticising those guys as actors but sometimes you just have to show up and deliver a speech. You don’t have to pretend to be somebody, I like to think I am enough. I’m not interested in ‘Oh he lost 30 pounds for this role’. I think that should stay private. I don’t wanna hear it." — Liam Neeson. [Daily Express]
• "I've been to talk at quite a few schools recently. It is essential to talk to 12- and 13-year-olds because they absorb what's thrown at them, whether it be homophobia or tolerance, and we have to make sure it's the positive stuff." — Sir Ian McKellen, who is working with Stonewall's Education Champion Programme, which addresses homophobia in schools. [Guardian]
• "I've never seen that (sex) tape of me and Tommy and I don't ever want to. I see more than enough of Tommy as it is. I can't get rid of him." — Pamela Anderson. [Daily Express]