@thehighshelf: No problem. Although I do appreciate the creativity that can come from a limited form, i.e. haiku, or in this case, twitter. #margaretatwood
she is on twitter, and quite happy to be. it might be a good idea to read the article linked, or even the second half of the sentence above, before commenting.
Oh dear, a completely ignorable internet application has Margaret Atwood feeling high and mighty? Alert the authorities!
But seriously, I don't think anyone is using Twitter to write Margaret. Writing and communication are intertwined, but believe it or not, not the same thing. Hence the difference between "friend speak" and "job interview." Or Facebook grammar and thesis grammar. DEAR GOD THE CHILDREN ARE ALRIGHT!
@itsonreserve: I think there was actually somebody who was writing a story/book on twitter to explore the medium. The whole lack of editing thing, I guess. #margaretatwood
@Lymed: I couldn't agree more. I LOVED "The Blind Assassin", and "Cat's Eye" and "The Robber Bride" were both good. I couldn't even finish "Surfacing", though, and I thought "The Edible Woman" was awful. She can be really uneven. #margaretatwood
I have to say, some days, I wish modes of communication such as email, twitter and IM didn't exist. The immediate gratification is not good for my soul. #margaretatwood
While I do have a small Facebook and iPhone addiction, I fully admit that my ability to pick up all of this "e-comm" so quickly (and lack of face-to-face comm to go with it) is why I have some of the social quirks I do. #margaretatwood
@jigglyball: Or you know online discussion forums ;)
It does provide a great external validation of my existence, and occasionally some excellent content... but overall, my power of discernment has been dulled. Anything goes... #margaretatwood
@bibomaco: At Jez, at least, the "anything goes" policy has been eliminated.
I'm actually not thrilled that I seek immediate, external validation on, um, certain online discussion forums. Can't be good for me. Which I think is your point :) #margaretatwood
True story: until the day he died, my grandpa pronounced "electricity" as "electwicity". If only he'd lasted until the era of online bill pay and e-communication; he never would have had to suffer embarassment at the hands of the electricity company ever again. #margaretatwood
Argh. We pick up socks because we are gatherers? Ms. Atwood, with all due respect, how does that argument work, really? Did our predecessors gather socks for sock stew while the men went hunting for trousers? Gathering food does not equal cleaning up after men. :(
But, I agree with Anna. I identify myself as a feminist, because I believe that women of all ages, races, religion, etc. deserve equality. And that we're not there yet. The end. It's not about whether feminism is "cool" or "fun" or whether my generation has it easier than the ones before, or whether a glass ceiling is more important than a sex worker in a foreign country. It's that things aren't equal, and they should be.
Meaden reminds me that even though feminists are frequently accused of only caring about middle-class white women, it's actually the "I'm not oppressed so why should I think about anyone else" non-feminists that are truly dismissive of the unprivileged.
And contrary to Atwood's assertion, the vote on whether women are human beings is still ongoing. Many people see females as the substandard gender, or have dehumanized them into objects. I'm not even talking about woman-centered violence or rape, but the PUA mindst of people like shooter George Sodini who seemed incapable of viewing women as actual people. That's the kind of destructive paradigm feminists fight against.
It's just so dispiriting when articles interview only privileged women, whose references seem to extend only to their immediate circle of educated, progressive colleagues and friends, as the arbiters of current feminism. Take a look in the real world. Not just in Bangladesh, but rural America like the town I came from, where gender equality is a joke. The cultural myopia in these articles disgusts me.
I'm not sure when exactly this round of smear campaign against the word "feminist" began, but it seems to be far-reaching. And in my opinion, most of the time it seems like a misunderstanding. A lot of the girls I've met who wouldn't identify as feminists have been perhaps girly-girls, or the type of women who liked to hang out with guys more because they think girls are bitchy. But feminism is all around us, it's in our culture. Do you enjoy Sex and the City? Because it's got some pretty strong feminist messages. Thought Hilary Clinton or Sarah Palin were cool? Feminism helped them get there. Men with babies strapped to their chests, women wearing pants, living with your partner before marriage - or not getting married at all - these are ALL things that a lot of people take for granted, and they're all things that probably wouldn't be nearly as universal today if it weren't for feminism.
So really, tell me to my face you don't believe in feminism, and I'll show you someone who doesn't understand the meaning of the word.
Anyone who doubts that Margaret Atwood is a feminist in the classic sense (all humans should be equal under the law and deserve equal rights) needs to read more of what she's written. But she has a point about modern feminism, and it's not one that marks the end of classic feminism, the feminism that MA was raised on in Canada, the feminism that was of her generation, the feminism of equal pay, worker's rights and reproductive rights. Classic feminism is alive and well, although often called "human rights" or "worker's works" now. The feminism that is dying is the feminism that is so North American centric and so morally relativist as to ignore grave human rights violations because they are "part of a person's culture", the feminism that compares women CHOOSING to hyphenate their names upon marriage with women who are forced to get married in the first place. And maybe that feminism needs to die, so that it can be reborn in a feminism that once again considers the needs and problems and issues of all women and not just those in North America and the UK.
I don't know Meaden personally, but I find it interesting that she bases whether or not she's a feminist on this one area of her life. Being at a high level in the business world doesn't mean feminism is now irrelevant. I find this kind of thinking to be the height of self-centered. If it doesn't effect me personally, it effects no one else. No, sorry, that's not how it works.
And the rest of her statement just seems to be a version of the "feminists just tear everything down and are shrill" trope which isn't the case. Pointing out inequality, and figuring out the how and why of it, is the only way we can effectively address it. You can't just ignore it and hope it'll go away.
This is my issue with the way most things like this are discussed, though. People rarely ever look at how each issue influences the other. Including Atwood, it seems. She's focusing on the "how are we different" meme...and the "women elsewhere have bigger issues" meme. Which I get, perspective is important.
But I don't really care how women are different than men other than the obvious physical characteristics. We could argue about biology all day, and mostly what we'd come to is that we still don't know how much is hardwired and how much is socialized. And I've always found the hardwired argument difficult...mostly because science and interpretation of results can be subject to the same sexism as anything else. It also takes science quite a while sometimes to get over it's own conclusions. Science, after all, thought our wombs literally wandered around our bodies and made us crazy at one time.
I do think many women around the world have it much worse than I do as a white, suburban, middle class person. And it's important to keep that in mind. But it's not a comparison. I can no more help the fact that my issues with sexism are related to my station than someone else can help theirs.
I'm starting to feel as though being a feminist is like joining a club that spends more time discussing its charter than actually pursuing its hobby of choice.
Work towards feminist goals and you're a feminist. It doesn't matter what you do or do not call yourself. Words have power, but actions have more power.
@LaComtesse: Dear god, this is probably the 10th time on Jezebel that I've "unhearted" you, just to heart you again.
If you're working to promote women's equality, then you're a feminist in my book. And if you don't want to call yourself a feminist, that's fine. As long as you keep working.
@LaComtesse: I completely agree with what you're saying, but I do think it does matter if you call yourself a feminist. If people (men AND women) are afraid to call themselves feminists, that just reinforces the idea that there is something wrong with the word and ergo, something wrong with being a feminist. I say one action we can take is to own the word and wear it without shame or apology, rather than let it be co-opted and defined by those who believe all is fine and dandy between men and women and therefore we don't need feminists.
Having said that, I am hearting you too for that great sentiment.
Just this morning in class, I was told by a fellow student that feminists cause their own problems by looking for them. If you don't look for them, you don't see them. The feminazi word was used. I said I didn't think that was true, and three other women jumped me.
I'm often bemused by that "are women different than men" question. Are they going for something more profound than, say, anatomical?
Because aren't men different than men? Last time I checked, they weren't cut out with little cookie cutters and made in an easy-bake oven. They span a spectrum on each little personality trait, temperament issue and method of processing the universe around them. So, as far as I am concerned, do women. So maybe the spread's a bit different on some issues, but we don't know for certain what that's attributable to. And really, why do we bother trying to pin down minute statistical differences when most of us overlap on most things anyway and a given individual could show up pretty much anywhere on the spectrum?
@Wit is periodically disensouled: Whenever we talk about sex/gender differences I remember what I have read in study after study that though there may be a difference in the population means and distribution for a certain trait, the variation within a sex is greater than the difference between sexes. I think that's kinda what you are saying too.
10/28/09
Check out veryshortstories for more. I dig that their avatar is Poe, who was a fervent advocate for short stories. #margaretatwood
10/28/09
thanks for the link! #margaretatwood
10/28/09
10/28/09
and i forgot to add, thanks for the links, but it doesn't work. i was going to edit, but you got back here before me. #margaretatwood
10/28/09
10/28/09
/crank #margaretatwood
10/28/09
Allow me to ruin her day: #margaretatwood
10/28/09
But seriously, I don't think anyone is using Twitter to write Margaret. Writing and communication are intertwined, but believe it or not, not the same thing. Hence the difference between "friend speak" and "job interview." Or Facebook grammar and thesis grammar. DEAR GOD THE CHILDREN ARE ALRIGHT!
/rant over. apologies. #margaretatwood
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
I love the Atwood books I love...but I can't say that for all of her work. #margaretatwood
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
While I do have a small Facebook and iPhone addiction, I fully admit that my ability to pick up all of this "e-comm" so quickly (and lack of face-to-face comm to go with it) is why I have some of the social quirks I do. #margaretatwood
10/28/09
Patience is a virtue, so I will henceforth blame Twitter when I fail to behave virtuously. #margaretatwood
10/28/09
It does provide a great external validation of my existence, and occasionally some excellent content... but overall, my power of discernment has been dulled. Anything goes... #margaretatwood
10/28/09
I'm actually not thrilled that I seek immediate, external validation on, um, certain online discussion forums. Can't be good for me. Which I think is your point :) #margaretatwood
10/28/09
10/28/09
As a lisper, my mocking comes with love. #margaretatwood
10/28/09
10/28/09
True story: until the day he died, my grandpa pronounced "electricity" as "electwicity". If only he'd lasted until the era of online bill pay and e-communication; he never would have had to suffer embarassment at the hands of the electricity company ever again. #margaretatwood
09/09/09
But, I agree with Anna. I identify myself as a feminist, because I believe that women of all ages, races, religion, etc. deserve equality. And that we're not there yet. The end. It's not about whether feminism is "cool" or "fun" or whether my generation has it easier than the ones before, or whether a glass ceiling is more important than a sex worker in a foreign country. It's that things aren't equal, and they should be.
09/09/09
And contrary to Atwood's assertion, the vote on whether women are human beings is still ongoing. Many people see females as the substandard gender, or have dehumanized them into objects. I'm not even talking about woman-centered violence or rape, but the PUA mindst of people like shooter George Sodini who seemed incapable of viewing women as actual people. That's the kind of destructive paradigm feminists fight against.
It's just so dispiriting when articles interview only privileged women, whose references seem to extend only to their immediate circle of educated, progressive colleagues and friends, as the arbiters of current feminism. Take a look in the real world. Not just in Bangladesh, but rural America like the town I came from, where gender equality is a joke. The cultural myopia in these articles disgusts me.
09/09/09
So really, tell me to my face you don't believe in feminism, and I'll show you someone who doesn't understand the meaning of the word.
09/09/09
09/09/09
And the rest of her statement just seems to be a version of the "feminists just tear everything down and are shrill" trope which isn't the case. Pointing out inequality, and figuring out the how and why of it, is the only way we can effectively address it. You can't just ignore it and hope it'll go away.
This is my issue with the way most things like this are discussed, though. People rarely ever look at how each issue influences the other. Including Atwood, it seems. She's focusing on the "how are we different" meme...and the "women elsewhere have bigger issues" meme. Which I get, perspective is important.
But I don't really care how women are different than men other than the obvious physical characteristics. We could argue about biology all day, and mostly what we'd come to is that we still don't know how much is hardwired and how much is socialized. And I've always found the hardwired argument difficult...mostly because science and interpretation of results can be subject to the same sexism as anything else. It also takes science quite a while sometimes to get over it's own conclusions. Science, after all, thought our wombs literally wandered around our bodies and made us crazy at one time.
I do think many women around the world have it much worse than I do as a white, suburban, middle class person. And it's important to keep that in mind. But it's not a comparison. I can no more help the fact that my issues with sexism are related to my station than someone else can help theirs.
09/09/09
Work towards feminist goals and you're a feminist. It doesn't matter what you do or do not call yourself. Words have power, but actions have more power.
09/09/09
If you're working to promote women's equality, then you're a feminist in my book. And if you don't want to call yourself a feminist, that's fine. As long as you keep working.
09/09/09
And yeah, exactly. While I don't think semantics will be our undoing, at a certain point it gets to be a distraction.
09/09/09
Having said that, I am hearting you too for that great sentiment.
09/09/09
Feminism is dying, and women are killing it.
09/09/09
@GirlyQ ain't a-marchin' anymore: Is this your classmate?
09/09/09
Because aren't men different than men? Last time I checked, they weren't cut out with little cookie cutters and made in an easy-bake oven. They span a spectrum on each little personality trait, temperament issue and method of processing the universe around them. So, as far as I am concerned, do women. So maybe the spread's a bit different on some issues, but we don't know for certain what that's attributable to. And really, why do we bother trying to pin down minute statistical differences when most of us overlap on most things anyway and a given individual could show up pretty much anywhere on the spectrum?
A whole bunch of inchoate thoughts, there.
09/09/09
09/09/09