While Clooney's "yeah? Well you're overweight" response isn't the classiest thing I've ever heard, and while it's annoying he felt the need to attack her weight (instead of say, her politics or her dress or some such) to make his point, his overall point is fairly valid...
--She attacked his appearance -- so it was tit for tat.
Besides, you don't get to pick which of your vulnerabilities is highlighted when you're insulted. That's why it's painful. And she started it.
"Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untravelled, the naive, the unsophisticated, deplore these formalities as 'empty,' 'meaningless,' or 'dishonest,' and scorn to use them.
No matter how pure their motives, they thereby throw sand into the machinery that does not work too well at best."
- Robert A. Heinlein from Time Enough for Love (1973)
I am currently working on being less polite, as I have found that my aversion to upsetting or offending anyone more often than not just lands me in uncomfortable situations.
When people I know become to act like assholes, I stop spending time with them.
When people I don't know are rude, I try to forgive them the first offense, as we all have bad days. If it keeps going, I have been know to call them "stupid, inconsiderate fucks."
I think that part of the problem is "reality culture" where peoples' narcissism is developed by watching too much television and anonymous posting in Web forums, and believing that yelling and repetition are the hallmarks of free speech.
Really, just because you can say something, doesn't mean you should. And sometimes it might be better to be supposed a fool in silence rather than entering the fray and removing all doubt.
I live in the South, where every insulting comment from one woman about another always ends with "bless her heart," as though the rude comment were meant not as an insult but just as a sad, well-meant remark about someone's unavoidably obvious bad points. "She's a lush, bless her heart." "She's so fat, bless her heart." "She can't dress herself, bless her heart." "She's just ugly, bless her heart."
My other thought: Why do people feel compelled to express every thought they have, the moment they have them? When did that become the way to go through one's day, instead of the time-honored tradition of biting one's tongue and counting to 10 before opening one's yap?
Oh George. I'm over bad manners too. It's all well and good to be frank and honest, but it doesn't have to come at the expense of etiquette. I wish more people knew this.
Not going to lie, if George Clooney told me that the extra 35 pounds I'm carrying was flattering, I'd be thrilled. "Thank you, Mr. Clooney, and I'm looking forward to seeing you stare at goats!"
"We've somehow got hold of the idea that we all must have an opinion on every single thing that happens, and even worse, that our opinion must be voiced, no matter how hurtful or offensive it can be."
Oh, my God. I really hate to like actors that my mother has described as "such a handsome young man." But now I feel forced to have a crush on him. Because seriously, this is such a pet peeve. We're all human, and yes, we are all entitled to our feelings, and pettiness and dreams and opinions. Are we entitled to express them just because we have them? NO. If you're going to voice an opinion, you must be aware that everything you say has consequences, that everything you say is heard by somebody else and that it is your responsibility to inform yourself and have a good argument or something worthy to say before you open your mouth. Do you need to say out loud every single thing that crosses your mind? No. There's a time for expression and a time for introspection. And they're not the same. Manners, in the end, are a set of rules that allow us to be able to live with one another because even the most anti-social of us have to live within a society. I'm not talking about ridiculous over-the-top politeness or hypocrisies or an excessive concern for what others think that make people act cheesy and campy. I'm simply talking about civility, and the basic notion that just as you are entitled to feel the way you do, somebody else is entitled too to feel/think differently. You can either engage in a conversation that even if it doesn't change your mind at least will leave you with an enhanced feeling of knowing how the world works, or you can choose to be a moron and decide that only what you think and feel matters in spurt it out as if what you do has no repercussions for yourself or others. It isn't about being nice. It's about common sense, self-awareness and decency.
End of rant!
Dammit! And now I have to leave for work. See you in a bit.
@Casquivana: Word. It still blows my mind how much RUDENESS I encounter on a daily basis. Granted, I'm no Miss Manners, but we're talking basic stuff here.
I'm reminded of Miss Manners's comment that etiquette exists to make life easier and smoother for everybody. It doesn't take that much more effort to make a small white lie or just plain keep your trap shut instead of "telling it like it is." And just as you don't care to hear/know someone's negative opinion about something you have no plans/ability to change, neither does anyone else want to hear such opinions from you.
I certainly don't think everyone should try to be "nice", per se, but I do think a mouth filter would be a good thing. Too many people nowadays think it's acceptable to just throw out whatever pops into their head without thinking what it'll sound like or how it might affect the listener. There is a line, after all, between brutal honesty and plain old brutality. An example of the former would be, "No, I don't like your boyfriend, because he's shown time and again that he's selfish and immature." Brutality would be, "Your boyfriend is a fucking asshole and he's also really ugly and you have the worst taste in guys." See the difference, yeah? Well, some people don't.
@Aesop's Foibles. YES.: This reminds me of a moment on the subway once where one guy had unleashed some sort of angry rant on another guy and left the train calling back into the quiet car, "Fuck you...and your fat girlfriend!" The doors shut behind him, we all stood in shocked silence, and I remember wanting to hug that girl and apologize on behalf of the entire city.
@Aesop's Foibles. YES.: The other difference between brutal honesty and brutality? The person who's dishing out the honesty. If my best friend of 12 years tells me a dress is unflattering, it's because she knows damn well what I usually look like and what I want to look like, and I change the dress. If someone I met 3 minutes ago tells me my dress is unflattering? Whole different story
You'd be surprised just how BAD my manners get when complete fucking strangers (ALWAYS men, NEVER women) tell me to "Smile" when I go about minding my own business. I tell you, I could teach a sailor a few new words whenever that happens.
@Highsmith: I HATE being told to smile. I just have one of those faces that looks angry when it's neutral, I suppose, but total effing strangers telling me to "smile" or "cheer up" or any such thing can switch my expression from neutral to actually angry pretty quickly. I usually retort with a (made up) reason why I'm not smiling, specially designed to make the commenter feel like as big of an asshole as possible.
@pileofmonkeys: The last time it happened to me, I was walking out of Mt. Sinai hospital, where my dad was being treated for cancer. Some guy walking by told me to smile. I wanted to say "REALLY? DO YOU SEE WHERE I'M WALKING OUT OF?" but I was exhausted so I just gave him a withering look. Fucker.
I don't see this woman a a rude person. I see her as a nut. Who acts like that? That is just bizarre behavior, and he should have called security. If someone read some things that I wrote and felt the need to call me on it, I would hope they would be more civil. This kind of behavior is why all these nuts think it is ok to talk about killing the Pres. etc.
09/13/09
--She attacked his appearance -- so it was tit for tat.
Besides, you don't get to pick which of your vulnerabilities is highlighted when you're insulted. That's why it's painful. And she started it.
09/12/09
"Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untravelled, the naive, the unsophisticated, deplore these formalities as 'empty,' 'meaningless,' or 'dishonest,' and scorn to use them.
No matter how pure their motives, they thereby throw sand into the machinery that does not work too well at best."
- Robert A. Heinlein from Time Enough for Love (1973)
09/12/09
09/12/09
09/12/09
When people I don't know are rude, I try to forgive them the first offense, as we all have bad days. If it keeps going, I have been know to call them "stupid, inconsiderate fucks."
I think that part of the problem is "reality culture" where peoples' narcissism is developed by watching too much television and anonymous posting in Web forums, and believing that yelling and repetition are the hallmarks of free speech.
Really, just because you can say something, doesn't mean you should. And sometimes it might be better to be supposed a fool in silence rather than entering the fray and removing all doubt.
09/12/09
My other thought: Why do people feel compelled to express every thought they have, the moment they have them? When did that become the way to go through one's day, instead of the time-honored tradition of biting one's tongue and counting to 10 before opening one's yap?
09/12/09
09/12/09
09/12/09
Oh, my God. I really hate to like actors that my mother has described as "such a handsome young man." But now I feel forced to have a crush on him. Because seriously, this is such a pet peeve. We're all human, and yes, we are all entitled to our feelings, and pettiness and dreams and opinions. Are we entitled to express them just because we have them? NO. If you're going to voice an opinion, you must be aware that everything you say has consequences, that everything you say is heard by somebody else and that it is your responsibility to inform yourself and have a good argument or something worthy to say before you open your mouth. Do you need to say out loud every single thing that crosses your mind? No. There's a time for expression and a time for introspection. And they're not the same. Manners, in the end, are a set of rules that allow us to be able to live with one another because even the most anti-social of us have to live within a society. I'm not talking about ridiculous over-the-top politeness or hypocrisies or an excessive concern for what others think that make people act cheesy and campy. I'm simply talking about civility, and the basic notion that just as you are entitled to feel the way you do, somebody else is entitled too to feel/think differently. You can either engage in a conversation that even if it doesn't change your mind at least will leave you with an enhanced feeling of knowing how the world works, or you can choose to be a moron and decide that only what you think and feel matters in spurt it out as if what you do has no repercussions for yourself or others. It isn't about being nice. It's about common sense, self-awareness and decency.
End of rant!
Dammit! And now I have to leave for work. See you in a bit.
09/12/09
Team Clooney.
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