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New York, 8:08 PM
Tue Nov 24
70 posts in the last 24 hours
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Why not let government agencies and non-profit organizations specifically designated for obesity education and prevention handle dietary recommendations? You can spend all that saved time on actually helping animals.
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Additionally, most of the soy grown in this country goes to feeding livestock. I don't know enough about biology to tell you whether the estrogen receptors in that soy would then be passed on to anyone eating the muscles of that livestock, but it doesn't seem that far fetched. They must at least be passed into the milk from the dairy cows, sort of how a nursing mother passes along anything she's eating to the infant. Though maybe pasteurization would kill them.
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So- and forgive my ignorance- it sounds like hormones will pass from the cow to the human through the milk. But since the phytoestrogen in soy is not like the estrogen found in humans, it does not have deleterious effects as far as we know, at least in terms of increasing hormonal levels in people. Is that correct?
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I know you aren't talking about growth hormones, and instead are talking about soy, but there are plenty of people under the assumption that it is healthier for you and the cow to stay away from rBST cows. So when they read "it sounds like hormones will pass from the cow to the human through the milk," their first thought will be rBST, and they'll be wrong.
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My concerns about rBST have to do with the cows themselves and therefore have zero place on this thread. But thank you for weighing in with your off-topic comment that seems to be promoting some sort of personal agenda.
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(I personally hate PETA, but I am an abolitionist. Gary Francione is far, far closer to my point of view than is PETA (and Francione also criticises PETA's sexist ads).)
09/11/09
I have gotten farther (further?) than many of my vegan/veg acquaintances in this way. Cutting down still helps. Eating humane raised, grass fed beef actually has some positive effects for the environment. There are things one can do without going "We are here for your ice cream, evil omnivore!" devaluing omnivorous allies makes people want to eat more cheeseburgers out of spite.
09/11/09
They use the sexeh to get noticed and employ other objectionable techniques, etc., but they certainly do work to help lessen the suffering of farm animals, too.
09/11/09
McDonald's Stops Worst Abuse of Chickens and Other Farmed Animals
In 1997, PETA called on McDonald's to make improvements for animals before they become Big Macs and McNuggets, holding news conferences and demonstrations around the country. After a 'Day of Action' in October generated dozens of protests around the country, McDonald's invited PETA into negotiations. Negotiations proved fruitless, so PETA launched a campaign against McDonald's in 1999 that lasted 11 months and included more than 400 demonstrations at McDonald's restaurants in more than 23 countries, as well as advertising and celebrity involvement. In September 2000, McDonald's agreed to make basic but important animal-welfare improvements, which are the only protection for chickens in factory farms because the Animal Welfare and Humane Slaughter acts do not cover birds.
For more information and a complete campaign chronology, please visit McCruelty.com.
Yes, they do want everyone to be vegan, and yes, I too despise some of their methods. But to say that they have "ZERO interest in improving the meat industry" is simply not true. They do a lot of campaigning for better conditions for farm animals.
09/11/09
There is SO MUCH dialogue about this. Most vegans were omnis at some point and understand that not everyone is ready and/ or willing to be vegan. And frankly someone who would eat a cheeseburger "out of spite" is not someone who has any interest in having a rational conversation or trying to understand the various viewpoints.
As far as the environment is concerned, yes, eating less meat than you did previously does help, as does getting that meat locally, etc. But, as the great Ailanthus-altissima once said on this site:
The point remains that adding another trophic link always increases the amount of energy needed in the system and the amount of energy lost due to lack of efficiency. Eating plants directly is more energy efficient than eating something that ate plants.
So I'm not sure where or how you've gotten farther, or in regards to what, but veganism is, generally speaking, going to be more environmentally friendly than eating meat.
09/11/09
I do believe that if one truly does care about animals, the best thing one can do to act on that belief is to go vegan. That's why I did it. However, that does not mean that I think that anything less than that is not worth doing. Of course it is of benefit to animals for people to cut down on meat consumption. The fact that I see veganism as the ultimate end goal doesn't mean that I can't support small steps in that direction.
In other words, seeing different end goals doesn't dictate how we see small steps towards those respective goals.
09/11/09
But thank you at least for not jumping down my throat.
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Again, there are so many ways to talk to people about this. I've made a lot of people aware of the greatness of vegan food by simply making if for them, as you have; very seldom do I choose to speak to people about animal issues or my personal choices. (I had one co-worker who asked me, "are these vegan?" every time I brought in cookies. After eight years (!) he finally got it- yes, they are awesome, and yes, they are always vegan. Vegan does not equal bad.) I don't know if I've opened more people's eyes than you have, or than my omni-mostly-eats-vegan partner, or than my parents who eat veggie 5 nights a week, but I do know that it's great that you are out there, fighting the good fight however you choose to do so.
Lastly, I find that a lot of people judge all veg*ns by the few vocal ones they've met or "heard about", rather than on actual veg*ns. I certainly don't judge omnis by the few jerks who have given me a really, really hard time about veganism and I hope others won't judge veg*ns by a random sampling. An example: last winter my mother told me she was so glad I wasn't one of those "preachy" vegans. I asked her how many vegans she knows, aside from me? Her answer: "Good point."
09/11/09
And yes, I was talking about getting people to eat less meat. :) I actually made a little vegan cookbook for my work buddies last Hanukkah called "Trust me, I'm an omnivore". My sister's a completely eco-vegetarian...she could care less about animals, truly, but she's a crazy environmentalist. Between her and my small handful of vegan friends, I've learned to cook things that make everyone happy. And no soy! Mainly because I hate it.
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I would, however, be polite and respectful while declining, and would not defend anyone who was rude about it.
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And yeah, it wasn't the decline so much as the fact that the guy who emailed me back was a cockweasel to me.
09/11/09
BTW, there's been an ongoing argument in the letters column of VegNews about vegans saying vegetarians are lesser. I can't find a link on their site but the new issue should be out soon and I anticipate some very interesting letters from both sides. You should check it out, I think it touches on some of the points we're discussing (ie, discounting someone's contribution because they don't "measure up.")
And I would love a copy of your book, BTW, if you're into sharing! Some of the best recipes I have are from omnis. And I agree, the less soy the better. One of my top five vegan cookbooks has no faux meat, soy, or faux dairy, just veggies, fruits and grains. It's awesome and a great gift for vegan-curious omnis.
09/11/09
Again, there's no excuse for being rude about it, though.
(And this doesn't apply to PETA and organizations who do indeed take part in welfarist campaigns and therefore wouldn't have any compelling reason not to help.)
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I am sure the man boobs have nothing to do with the fried vegetarian snickers bars someone mentioned in yesterdays weight post. Nothing at all. Must be all those chicken cutlets.