There really is no way to tell what sort of human she would have become under different circumstances – but then is there ever? For all I know Betty would be just as boring in modern times, but last time I checked I didn't believe in feminism for some, or feminism for the nice, or feminism for friends only. #madmen
Betty (and the rest of the women in the show) are a Rorschach test aren't they? Some project their hope that these proto-feminists will blossom into someone recognizable. Others think there is nothing there, just a blot. Others see their mothers. I see her with alot of depth (maybe I project that onto her;) because where there is nothing, there is something.
Wow - my age is showing. I not only don't hate Betty - I understand her. She could be my mother - although my father wasn't a "Don," my mother was certainly bored and miserable with the slot her tab was supposed to fit into.
She did get happier when she started working when I was in HS but was never really happy with her role.
She's very happy now. She doesn't have to take care of anyone other than herself for the first time in her life . I can't imagine being a prisoner to everyone else's expectations. Aren't you glad we don't have to be? We get to chose. #madmen
@sybann: I concur. I love Betty a lot precisely because she's generationally in between my mother and grandmother. I have aunts-in-law who are exactly her age, and I have heard whispered stories much like what she went through.
Furthermore, I'm sick of people painting her as a bad mother. Instead of being angry with her for that, why not look at the fact that back then getting married pretty much said "you will also have children someday." There was far less in the way of birth control. Just because Betty might've wanted to get married doesn't mean she was ready and interested in also becoming a mother, especially not quite so young. She is suffering from the effects of having no options, and her husband has been a lying, cheating bastard throughout their entire marriage. If she has "flat affect," I think it's pretty freaking understandable! #madmen
@icyblonde: It's part of the reason why I get SO irrationally angry when it's suggested that some of us are "priviledged" and have no clue what it's like to face suffering or hardships. It lacks imagination.
To be truly happy yourself you have to be able to inhabit another's shoes for more than a mile to gauge why they might be angry or abusive or just miserable. You can't just write others off as "jerks." It diminishes both of you.
We all suffer disappointments and should seek common ground, not separation and alienation. #madmen
I doubt this is the last we'll see of Betty. Too much of how the show deals with a certain aspect of womanhood/class and sexism in that era rests on her experiences and viewpoint.
The thing about Betty is...you're supposed to find her all the things people find her. Pampered. Hollow. Superficial. Cold. She is those things, because she's been made those things. Because no one has ever expected more from her, so she doesn't even know she could be more...although I think she has glimpses of it. And there are clearly embers of a need to be something...to get out...to figure out some other life than this. Women at that time were supposed to be happy little extensions of their husbands, content with a life where they were basically indentured servants. Even with all the privileges in Betty's life, she's still trapped and caged. A pretty prison is still a prison.
To me, Betty's character is all about restriction. Restricted emotions, restricted choices, restricted ideas, a restricted life. She's a woman on the brink, stuck in a world that limits her, stuck with her own limitations...stuck with a life she should want but doesn't.
The people who don't understand why she's with Henry seem to have missed the whole scene about divorce then. Even if Don doesn't fight her, he hasn't exactly proven himself to be trustworthy. She has no career, and though she's clearly educated, the only job she had was modeling. She's not really in a position to effectively navigate the world. And Henry is, in every way, a far more transparent man than Don. He lives his life in the public eye, working for a politician. He's not in a position to lie and mislead her the way Don was.
Betty is, in many ways, what the stereotypical "childish" woman comes from. Because women were treated like children. By partners, by the law, by society. It shouldn't be shocking to anyone that some people can't just snap out of that. And the whole point of her character is exploring where a person like that comes from, and what they do. I find it fascinating because it's so unlike me.
I think hating her is convenient. Because admitting that women are, in a lot of ways, still expected to be like her is scary. And we resent it. And we resent women like her because they didn't just get out of it. Because we want more agency than that. And identifying with Betty, even in a small way, must feel like admitting that there's still something compelling in that version of womanhood. Otherwise I don't see how anyone could go around defending or forgiving Don as a character while condemning her. #madmen
A lot of liberals, I've found, are bored with Betty for another reason entirely. They can't understand why she doesn't just pick up and leave already, if she's so unhappy. We're on the other side of it—-so feminist that it's hard to wrap our minds around the psychology of someone who isn't.
I really like this assessment - and I think I end up defending her a lot because of it.
As for January Jones's acting ability - I'm kind of excited to see her this weekend in SNL, just to prove she can do something than 'ol frozen, deadened-soul-face-lady (I've never seen her in anything else.) #madmen
@Where The Mild Things Are: and she does it so well, but I was very surprised to catch her in a very different role in Love Actually. But that's true, I haven't seen her in anything else, but I'm thinking she's going to ace at SNL rather as Jon Hamm did. #madmen
I agree that internalized sexism has a lot to do with the inordinate Betty hate that abounds among MM fans.
Personally, I don't hate her, and I don't identify her primarily as a privileged person in her world. Her husband has a lot more privilege and agency than her, and he treats her terribly.
The "She should just leave" crowd, which turned into the "Henry Francis is just another Don Draper; she should just leave and be single" crowd, is misguided in my opinion. Note how much more receptive the lawyer was to her prospects when came in with HF. She would lose her kids for sure without another husband and she doesn't want to do that. She has no assets to her name, not even her father's house, not because she hasn't been working, but because she's been laboring for free for Don for all these years. She couldn't get hired anywhere, even for peanuts as a secretary. She has no credit, she couldn't get a loan, what would you have her do?
As for her and HF not knowing each other for long, the long courtships of today were not the norm then. Part of the reason for this was the economic imperative for women to marry, and part of this was the social and legal barriers to premarital sex, including the illegality of abortion and restricted access to b.c.
Henry Francis is not dismissive of her thoughts and desires. He treats her like an adult, and so far, he's been honest with her. He seems not to need to be married to advance his career, as Don does. I hardly see where the comparison is between the two men. #madmen
Betty's problems represent conflicts long before and long after the 1960s, so why are we pretending that Betty should have made a choice to leave without support, when we all know people who feel just as trapped in the 21st century? Some laws may have changed, but some attitudes haven't. #madmen
@mcnez: Around here, we don't stand for the "Why won't she just leave!" meme when applied to women today. We recognize that there are real barriers and logical reasons why they wouldn't always.
It amazes me that the attitude proliferates among Jezzies about a woman fifty years ago. #madmen
@Hana Maru:
How can you tell he isn't dismissive of her thoughts and desires? They have had like 20 minutes of screen time this whole season. I understand the justification for her leaving, but Henry Francis isn't awesome just because he isn't Don Draper.
And I was never in the "she should leave him" crowd because any marriage she gets into in 1963 is going to be some level of what she has now. #madmen
In the conversations they've had, he's consistently taken her seriously and listened to her. Yes, they don't know each other very well, but it's not realistic for them to just date open-endedly. The culture has changed a lot since then.
Betty wants to be married, but to a more caring, more honest man. There's a big difference between Don and just any man she might marry. #madmen
Wow, you brought the same comment I made in regards to the Feminine Mystique applying to a certain demographic of women Particularly when Betty jets off to Reno and leaves Carla behind with her kids. What about her kids and family? After a long day of work, Carla and other women who didn't have the option not to work, have to go home and still be in charge of running the household/catering to her husband. For this reason, I've always emphatized a lot more with Carla than any other woman on the show. #madmen
@Eric Northman is mine: My family background is very working class, and I have always looked to Carla to see what life was like for my grandmothers. Taking care of rich people's problems and not having a lot of sympathy for their brand of feminism - that was (and is still) the attitude of my matriarchs. In their world women were always working outside of the home because they had to.
I sometimes wish Mad Men would acknowledge the working class. #madmen
@h_bee: Exactly, it's frustrating when people overlook the privilege that comes with race and class when analyzing Betty. Working class women who had not only worked but shouldered the main burden of running the household were probably too exhausted/drained and didn't have the luxury of worrying about being fulfilled, high society ideals etc. Betty doesn't represent all women in that area. While, she might reflect some things, her experience is not the same for all. Some had it better and some definitely had it worse. #madmen
Interesting demise of their union. At different points, I thought Betty would, in her desperate unhappiness, O.D. on pain pills or pass out on the couch with a cigarette lit to a house fire, OR, steal all of Don's cash out of his secret stash, and then make a run for it and never come back.
But, a Vegas divorce is a much more logical and saner conclusion to their horribly fraught sham of a marriage.
At last, an end to his multiple affairs and her petulant, listless sulking, all of which deeply impacted their children. May he find peace with the teacher, and her with the silver fox she ran away with.
What a depiction of the loneliness and the hell of a bad marriage! Riveting to watch.
I think the last scene with Betty and then the cut to Carla with the children is a perfect cap to the arc of the show this season. All these characters are struggling and clawing to keep hold of this perfect world that's slipping away. And it turns out, what their trying so hard to keep hold of is, as Latoya has pointed out, privelege, pure and simple. Mad Men is, I think, brilliant for its willingness to show us the beauty and the glamour and the gilded image of these people's lives and then tear it away and reveal what's underneath.
The brilliance of Betty's breakdown, and the gorgeous Feminine Mystique melodrama of it all, is predicated on the fact that she is allowed, and able to do so because she has Carla. She has the luxury of having this massive collapse and sitting for days in the same gorgeous dress because she knows someone else will make sure things function.
That's not to say her distress is not real or heartbreaking. It is, but Betty's proto-feminist awakening is set against the backdrop of Carla's constant presence which is, I think, the most interesting part of that story arc. At the end of it all, Betty can fly away with her new man and Don can start all over because they are able to leave the kids at home with Carla while they are off finding themselves in their new lives. But at the same time, every season, the ability of all the characters to coast on the priveleges given them by their race and class has been slipping. I'm extremely interested to see how this continues. #madmen
@futuremouse: Yes, I hate how people overlook the privilege that comes with race when analyzing this situation. Betty's trapped, unsatisfied, Okay but what about African Americans in that area, not only do you have to deal with racism and exclusion from society, in the private sphere and in your community, you had to deal with sexism. The intersection of race, class and gender is probably a major reason why everyone isn't singing Poor Betty. #madmen
11/13/09
There really is no way to tell what sort of human she would have become under different circumstances – but then is there ever? For all I know Betty would be just as boring in modern times, but last time I checked I didn't believe in feminism for some, or feminism for the nice, or feminism for friends only. #madmen
11/12/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Joan Harris makes play-time FUN! #joanhollowaypaperdolls
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
She did get happier when she started working when I was in HS but was never really happy with her role.
She's very happy now. She doesn't have to take care of anyone other than herself for the first time in her life . I can't imagine being a prisoner to everyone else's expectations. Aren't you glad we don't have to be? We get to chose. #madmen
11/10/09
Furthermore, I'm sick of people painting her as a bad mother. Instead of being angry with her for that, why not look at the fact that back then getting married pretty much said "you will also have children someday." There was far less in the way of birth control. Just because Betty might've wanted to get married doesn't mean she was ready and interested in also becoming a mother, especially not quite so young. She is suffering from the effects of having no options, and her husband has been a lying, cheating bastard throughout their entire marriage. If she has "flat affect," I think it's pretty freaking understandable! #madmen
11/11/09
To be truly happy yourself you have to be able to inhabit another's shoes for more than a mile to gauge why they might be angry or abusive or just miserable. You can't just write others off as "jerks." It diminishes both of you.
We all suffer disappointments and should seek common ground, not separation and alienation. #madmen
11/10/09
The thing about Betty is...you're supposed to find her all the things people find her. Pampered. Hollow. Superficial. Cold. She is those things, because she's been made those things. Because no one has ever expected more from her, so she doesn't even know she could be more...although I think she has glimpses of it. And there are clearly embers of a need to be something...to get out...to figure out some other life than this. Women at that time were supposed to be happy little extensions of their husbands, content with a life where they were basically indentured servants. Even with all the privileges in Betty's life, she's still trapped and caged. A pretty prison is still a prison.
To me, Betty's character is all about restriction. Restricted emotions, restricted choices, restricted ideas, a restricted life. She's a woman on the brink, stuck in a world that limits her, stuck with her own limitations...stuck with a life she should want but doesn't.
The people who don't understand why she's with Henry seem to have missed the whole scene about divorce then. Even if Don doesn't fight her, he hasn't exactly proven himself to be trustworthy. She has no career, and though she's clearly educated, the only job she had was modeling. She's not really in a position to effectively navigate the world. And Henry is, in every way, a far more transparent man than Don. He lives his life in the public eye, working for a politician. He's not in a position to lie and mislead her the way Don was.
Betty is, in many ways, what the stereotypical "childish" woman comes from. Because women were treated like children. By partners, by the law, by society. It shouldn't be shocking to anyone that some people can't just snap out of that. And the whole point of her character is exploring where a person like that comes from, and what they do. I find it fascinating because it's so unlike me.
I think hating her is convenient. Because admitting that women are, in a lot of ways, still expected to be like her is scary. And we resent it. And we resent women like her because they didn't just get out of it. Because we want more agency than that. And identifying with Betty, even in a small way, must feel like admitting that there's still something compelling in that version of womanhood. Otherwise I don't see how anyone could go around defending or forgiving Don as a character while condemning her. #madmen
11/10/09
11/10/09
I really like this assessment - and I think I end up defending her a lot because of it.
As for January Jones's acting ability - I'm kind of excited to see her this weekend in SNL, just to prove she can do something than 'ol frozen, deadened-soul-face-lady (I've never seen her in anything else.) #madmen
11/10/09
11/10/09
Personally, I don't hate her, and I don't identify her primarily as a privileged person in her world. Her husband has a lot more privilege and agency than her, and he treats her terribly.
The "She should just leave" crowd, which turned into the "Henry Francis is just another Don Draper; she should just leave and be single" crowd, is misguided in my opinion. Note how much more receptive the lawyer was to her prospects when came in with HF. She would lose her kids for sure without another husband and she doesn't want to do that. She has no assets to her name, not even her father's house, not because she hasn't been working, but because she's been laboring for free for Don for all these years. She couldn't get hired anywhere, even for peanuts as a secretary. She has no credit, she couldn't get a loan, what would you have her do?
As for her and HF not knowing each other for long, the long courtships of today were not the norm then. Part of the reason for this was the economic imperative for women to marry, and part of this was the social and legal barriers to premarital sex, including the illegality of abortion and restricted access to b.c.
Henry Francis is not dismissive of her thoughts and desires. He treats her like an adult, and so far, he's been honest with her. He seems not to need to be married to advance his career, as Don does. I hardly see where the comparison is between the two men. #madmen
11/10/09
Betty's problems represent conflicts long before and long after the 1960s, so why are we pretending that Betty should have made a choice to leave without support, when we all know people who feel just as trapped in the 21st century? Some laws may have changed, but some attitudes haven't. #madmen
11/10/09
It amazes me that the attitude proliferates among Jezzies about a woman fifty years ago. #madmen
11/10/09
How can you tell he isn't dismissive of her thoughts and desires? They have had like 20 minutes of screen time this whole season. I understand the justification for her leaving, but Henry Francis isn't awesome just because he isn't Don Draper.
And I was never in the "she should leave him" crowd because any marriage she gets into in 1963 is going to be some level of what she has now. #madmen
11/10/09
In the conversations they've had, he's consistently taken her seriously and listened to her. Yes, they don't know each other very well, but it's not realistic for them to just date open-endedly. The culture has changed a lot since then.
Betty wants to be married, but to a more caring, more honest man. There's a big difference between Don and just any man she might marry. #madmen
11/10/09
11/10/09
I sometimes wish Mad Men would acknowledge the working class. #madmen
11/10/09
11/10/09
But, a Vegas divorce is a much more logical and saner conclusion to their horribly fraught sham of a marriage.
At last, an end to his multiple affairs and her petulant, listless sulking, all of which deeply impacted their children. May he find peace with the teacher, and her with the silver fox she ran away with.
What a depiction of the loneliness and the hell of a bad marriage! Riveting to watch.
11/10/09
The brilliance of Betty's breakdown, and the gorgeous Feminine Mystique melodrama of it all, is predicated on the fact that she is allowed, and able to do so because she has Carla. She has the luxury of having this massive collapse and sitting for days in the same gorgeous dress because she knows someone else will make sure things function.
That's not to say her distress is not real or heartbreaking. It is, but Betty's proto-feminist awakening is set against the backdrop of Carla's constant presence which is, I think, the most interesting part of that story arc. At the end of it all, Betty can fly away with her new man and Don can start all over because they are able to leave the kids at home with Carla while they are off finding themselves in their new lives. But at the same time, every season, the ability of all the characters to coast on the priveleges given them by their race and class has been slipping. I'm extremely interested to see how this continues. #madmen
11/10/09
11/11/09