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Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
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NewsBunny
11/04/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
I've been feeling incredibly bad for Don (yes, I know he's not real)

We've all got that box, locked up somewhere. It may just be inside us. Mine are my journals, where I rage, cry, wonder, don't understand, write about how hard life is and how I don't think I live for another 40 years. Some of us never let anyone inside that box. I don't. I've always been an intensely private person, and I try very hard not to allow anyone to review my true thoughts and emotions until I have a change to go over them.

This requires planning. Constant maintenance of the facade. Constant repairs of cracks and holes and leaks

I GET this character.

And yes, I have a shrink. #madmenrecap
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discoballfeet
11/03/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
To go back to an earlier thread (@Hana Maru), I am surprised that the Obama comparison hasn't gotten more play here. I was watching with a friend, and the mere possibility of Obama being shot threw her into a massive panic attack. Intentional on the part of the writers? Did others have the same reaction?
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Hana Maru promoted this comment Edited by discoballfeet at 11/03/09 6:08 PM discoballfeet was starred discoballfeet was unstarred

Hana Maru
11/04/09

@discoballfeet: I think it was intentional. Think of Trudy's line, something like "I don't care what your party is, this is America, you don't shoot the President!" #madmenrecap
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Mina_da_mad_child
11/03/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
Maybe i missed it since i'm late to the party, but I can't beleive no one has commented on Don's reaction to Betty telling him she no longer loves him. The shot of him sitting by himself in the dark room with only his shirt cuffs visible in the shadows as he sinks into the chair made me choke up. I know he is an awful husband, but you could feel his world crumble at the realization that he was losing everything he worked for.
I always thought he loved Betty, the best way he knew how. Even though he sleeps around, his family was his rock. My heart broke when he watched her from afar before he entered the kitchen and she just gave him an icy stare. So sad :-( #madmenrecap
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veronykah
11/03/09

@Mina_da_mad_child: I'm with you. I don't cry at movies or tv but having been in Don's shoes I felt so awful for him. I also cursed the tv for making me feel bad for him, when clearly where he is is all his fault.
I thought the whole "I don't love you anymore" scene was brilliant. #madmenrecap
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KentuckyBabe
11/03/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
I think it's sad that Don is making a good effort now of being with the family, and is starting to really be there for Betty and it's just too late.
Very sad.

I also wish they'd stop with the stupid - "don walks into a room, sits down, defeated... camera slowly pans out...." its so "acting class..." it's so annoying. I find it distracting now. #madmenrecap
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Hana Maru
11/03/09

@KentuckyBabe: I was feeling terrible for him, then I remembered that he didn't break things off with Suzanne, just put her on hold, and that he'd spent the whole episode dismissing and minimizing Betty. I waver a lot in how I feel about Don. It kills him to lose Betty. I think he loves her, but at the same time he feels zero remorse about having affairs and lying. He loves her but he doesn't view her as a person, only as ancillary to himself. It's so dissonant. #madmenrecap
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KentuckyBabe
11/04/09

@Hana Maru: wah!!

:-) #madmenrecap
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Sunshineyness
11/03/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
Someone on the show mentioned that Oswald was only 24 in a very shocked tone. I was that age when I got really interested in the asassination and all that stuff and I completely remember being totally blown away that he had been my age. Just something that struck me very deep is all.

And can I just say- wow. I cried at this episode. I was born 20 years after it happened but seeing it in this show, all the news footage and people's reactions- I cried. #madmenrecap
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shadesofmediocrity
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
I know that this isn't the most intellectual dissection, but this week Don Draper combined my love of Jon Hamm and the "sweater over a collared shirt" look. Mmmm.
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curiousgeorgiana promoted this comment Edited by shadesofmediocrity at 11/02/09 9:30 PM shadesofmediocrity was starred

curiousgeorgiana
11/02/09

@shadesofmediocrity: With 5 o'clock shadow. #madmenrecap
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TheWordstoCome
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
I was really affected by the ways in which married women were shown as children in this episode, ironically titled, "The Grownups." Don tells Betty that it's "going to be ok" in the same tone of voice that he says it to Sally. She turns to Henry, and then he tells her the exact same thing. It was very similar to the interactions between Margaret and her parents at the beginning of the episode and Jane and Roger (her figural parent). Married women are allowed and encouraged to remain childlike, with Joan as the one exception. And, I would say that to some extent Joan resents that she has to be more of a parent to her husband, that the option of being an innocent child herself is not available.

Henry proposing to Betty is thus starting the cycle all over again. It's another man telling her that she'll never have to be a grownup. Married women in this episode are the ones who live in the real Camelot and are the ones most threatened when it starts to fall and they are expected to be adults. It's not Betty, or Jane, or Margaret's fault; however in Trudy's maturing transformation in this episode, we see their peer surpass them and move towards a jaded, yet adult, independence. #madmenrecap
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Sunshineyness
11/03/09

@TheWordstoCome: This is a great point to bring up. It also goes in with Peggy telling Don that her roomate and the others are writing condolence letters to Jacky. I think a lot of the women projected themselves at the time onto Jacky at that moment. She just lost a baby and then her husband and in an extremely public and particularly horrifying manner. (I'll never get over that she was sitting right next to him. I could never imagine that horror) Bam, it's like the shattered image for these women. Your husband can die and leave you all alone to fend for yourself. Not only that but he can leave you flat out. There's no guarantees in life, when you sign up for that Stepford life there's no guarantee it's staying even best case scenario which by all means Jacqueline was living (at least in an outward lens looking in way- obvs knowing more about her life now it wasn't so much) at the time. I think that shook all the women to a very deep core.

Personally, I'm hoping in light of all this in the finale Betty takes the kids leaves Don but doesn't go with Henry Francis. Perhaps that's the realization that she came to after leaving Henry. #madmenrecap
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snobographer
11/03/09

@TheWordstoCome: See, the male characters always talk to the female characters like they're children, and continually remind them that they see them as children, but really the male characters are the ones making messes (Peter and Kinsey catapulting a balloon filled with ketchup across the office, Don breaking the glass on the ant farm with the Jai Alai ball and leaving it for Joan to deal with, Roger puking oysters and martinis all over the floor...) and gallavanting around and throwing foot-stompy tantrums while the women (and of course the invisible black and brown people) are the ones who always clean things up and smooth things over, The men are actually the ones with the most to lose when the women start to realize they're getting screwed on this deal. They won't have a world full of mommies and nursemaids and servants anymore. #madmenrecap
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laurasaurus
11/03/09

Every now and then I still wonder, "What if I turn on my computer one day and someone's assassinated Obama?" and then I feel terrified.

And, also, I realize I would probably hear about it first from Facebook statuses. How awful is that?

@TheWordstoCome: Such a good point. Thank you for bringing it up. #madmenrecap
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Ms. Crankypants
11/04/09

@snobographer: I'm still waiting for that world to appear #madmenrecap
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snobographer
11/05/09

@Ms. Crankypants: Oh yeah word. #madmenrecap
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remedios
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
I was interested in Don's interaction with his children. He tried to act as a problem solver, when really they didn't seem to act like there really was a problem. He wanted to allay their fears and concerns, when they didn't really have any. They're really clueless as to how kids react. I can't speak for all kids of course, but parents often seem overly concerned about how kids will react, when the kids don't really have that emotional of a reaction in the first place.

I laughed out loud when Jane said "He was so handsome. And now I'll never get to vote for him." Hilarious on so many levels. Clearly she's not one for politics.

Who was Betty referring to when she said he's 24 years old? #madmenrecap
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bananapancakes
11/02/09

@remedios: When Jane said "Now, I'll never get to vote for him." I was shocked, because that puts her very near my age. She was probably too young to vote for Kennedy at the time of his election and now he's dead. Just thinking about that made me realize how young she is. It was heartbreaking for me.

And I think Betty was referring to Lee Harvey Oswald.
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Edited by bananapancakes at 11/02/09 9:11 PM bananapancakes was starred bananapancakes was unstarred

remedios
11/02/09

@bananapancakes: Re: Jane, it just came out so childish, it reminded me of people who oppose genocide but couldn't tell you the first thing about it or the country they're protesting for/against. Or Tyra telling you that she could give you a lesson in Tibet because it has the Dalai Lama and... stuff. I doubt Jane really even cared or knew any of JFK's politics. Or at least that's the way she's being played. #madmenrecap
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viklane
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
Hmm. I felt this way last week with the strange play-style feeling of the Betty/Don showdown, but something has been missing lately. I didn't really feel the impact of the Kennedy shooting the way I felt I should have.

The idea of the creepy Congressman wanting to MARRY(?!?!?!?!) Betty just seemed so ridiculously out-of-the-blue. As my Mother put it: "I get it. She's very pretty. But she's incredibly dull. What's the big appeal?"

Especially juxtaposed to Roger's call to Joan, the scene rang even more false. With Roger and Joan, they had an affair, and I think they realized too late that they really did work together and may have really cared for one-another and now both are stuck with these very pretty but very insubstantial people. Well, unfortunately Betty just seems like another one of those plastic figurines.

January Jones's terrible acting in reaction to Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald live on TV was atrocious. The scream, and the "What is going on?!?!?!" was just cringe-inducing. She's just such a weak link on this show that it's becoming distracting and I honestly cannot muster up the ability to care about her or any of her creepy, weepy storylines.

Sigh. Unless Matt Weiner gives me a whole big heap of the delicious, sexy Paul Kinsey soon, I feel like I'm movin' on from Mad Men. It just feels so hollow right now. #madmenrecap
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meritxell: an erotic life
11/02/09

@viklane: I'm with you IRT Betty/JJ's acting. But didn't you love the little knowing/proud look Kinsey gave Peggy when Duck called to set up their nooner? Maybe Peggy & Paul should get together. #madmenrecap
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viklane
11/03/09

@meritxell: an erotic life: Well, naturally Paul should be with me.

I think it's unfortunate that they're not really using Michael Gladis -- and that MG hasn't done much work prior to this. He is quickly becoming my favorite character on the show, because they haven't corrupted him yet. #madmenrecap
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Hana Maru
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
I don't know what I'll do when this season ends, but I'm DYING to see the last episode. Six more days! What was the tagline? Be ready for anything?

What do you all think will happen? Is Don going to jump out of a window a la the opening sequence? Will Jane and Margaret become good friends? Will cats and dogs live together??? #madmenrecap
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Hana Maru
11/02/09

@Hana Maru: The MM site has only this cryptic nugget:

"Don has an important meeting with Connie. Betty receives some advice. Pete talks to his clients. " #madmenrecap
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sleepeatread
11/02/09

@Hana Maru: Could they BE any vaguer? *said in Chandler Bing voice* #madmenrecap
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Hana Maru
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
I didn't understand why the whole country stopped, waiters skipping out on the wedding, people bawling their eyes out. I've never bought the whole "innocence lost for the first time EVER" thing that people say in reference to the Kennedy assassination. Notice how the newscaster mentioned that everyone, together, was recalling the shocking death of Pres. Roosevelt.

I told my husband that I didn't get why people were crying and he said "Imagine if Obama got shot. People wouldn't just cry, they'd be throwing themselves out of buildings" #madmenrecap
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viklane
11/02/09

@Hana Maru: Hmm. I was 13 when 9/11 happened, and this was -- I thought -- pretty similar to how people just shut down for like a week. I remember that during that whole day of school, all the TVs were on and teachers just gave up trying to teach. After that, they would leave the TVs on mute, and attempt to give some kind of a lesson, but it was at least a week before people began to get back into routines. And I was in Canada. #madmenrecap
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Hana Maru
11/02/09

@viklane: Yeah, but 9/11 was a large scale attack on two major cities. There were so many dead and missing people and we didn't know if we would be attacked again. It's hard to understand why people would react the same.

I think the Obama comparison is apt. People had so much hope wrapped up in their idea of Kennedy. #madmenrecap
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Sunshineyness
11/03/09

@Hana Maru: Roosevelt was different. He was sick and he was older and everyone knew the Depression and the hard war took a lot out of him and they all knew it was coming.

It's the difference in Grandpa passing away and Dad being gunned down on the street. No one could comprehend anyone having the desire to gun the man down regardless of their politics.

Hell, I'm fascinated with asassinations but can't comprehend someone having the desire to go out and gun down the president.

This wasn't just the death of the president it was a VIOLENT death that the public in Dallas was present for.

I think if it happened with Obama a very similar thing would occur. #madmenrecap
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rah29
11/03/09

@Hana Maru: Also late--didn't manage to get the ep until late! I thought about this as well and wondered what could make a hardened IR PhD cynic like me cry like that. Then partway through the episode when Sally was standing in the doorway I suddenly remembered the day Yitzhak Rabin was shot. I was almost exactly Sally's age, and had been dragged along to a party at the home of one of my mum's Israeli friends. My mother, also from Israel, and her friends sobbed all night in front of the tv. I think it was the first time I ever saw her cry.

Even now thinking about that night now and its consequences makes me tear up. #madmenrecap
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ArtfulSlinger
11/03/09

@Hana Maru: MY mother was 12 and I remember her recounts as strikingly similar to those in the show. The President, was SHOT DEAD, in broad daylight. This would be a crazy occurance today, but I couldn't imagine nearly 50 years ago. Also, JFK was young, vital and promised CHANGE. I think this is why the maid was more hurt than Betty. I think it was one of the first strikes for the loss of the innocence Americans thought they had. #madmenrecap
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solaana
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
All I remember (other than that blue dress) was Betty yelling out "What is going ON?" after Lee Harvey Oswald gets shot. Such an honest and uncontrolled reaction, and I don't know - it felt so ridiculously right, like I was waiting for someone on the show to react that way, rather than try and put on a brave face. I loved that moment so much. That, and Carla striking up a cigarette. God, this show is so damn subtle and awesome. #madmenrecap
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curiousgeorgiana
11/02/09

@solaana: That is exactly, exactly what I yelled at the TV when the second plane hit on 9/11. It was a perfect portrayal by January Jones--so real. #madmenrecap
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viklane
11/02/09

@solaana: I don't want to seem like a dick, but I had the exact opposite reaction -- the writing was great, but January Jones's acting seemed super fake. #madmenrecap
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cocobanal
11/02/09

@curiousgeorgiana: It's exactly what I said on 9/11, too, exactly when you said it. And when Betty said it last night, it reminded me so much of that. #madmenrecap
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solaana
11/03/09

@viklane: You know, I'm totally torn about her, both character and acting-wise, but I don't know. I think I was just thinking about 9/11 and what it was like that day, and it just struck me as exactly right, that sort of reaction. But I mean, hey - this show is definitely one that's open to a trillion interpretations, and that doesn't make you a dick. After all, you're watching this show, so you can't be all that bad. :) #madmenrecap
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Susan B.
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
It's funny how this show has us all thinking of marriage as a dying order. Even on Jezebel, where so many of the writers are married or engaged, we look at this wedding and say, "Why?" (What's more, Margaret is thinking the same thing.) What's bizarre to me is that Pete and Trudie are seeming like an ok marriage compared to everything else--not a good sign. I remember really liking Harry's wife, I wish we saw her more often. Or maybe their marriage is too happy (now that they're past that time he slept with Hildy) to be interesting. #madmenrecap
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Hana Maru
11/02/09

@Susan B.: I don't really get the wedding representing the dying order, just that, as Joan said, life goes on. People are still birthing babies, getting married, ending their marriages, dying. #madmenrecap
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queenieinmanhattan
11/02/09

@Susan B.: I don't think it's marriage to which they're referring as "an old order"; it's the WASPy, upper-class, ivory-towerish world Margaret and Brooks are entering together.
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Edited by queenieinmanhattan at 11/02/09 6:39 PM queenieinmanhattan was starred

WestMantooth
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
The one scene I still don't get, and feel stupid for not, was the scene with Peggy and her roommate at the elevator. What was the roomy getting at with the marriage comment? #madmenrecap
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Edited by WestMantooth at 11/02/09 3:17 PM WestMantooth was starred WestMantooth was unstarred

FreeKitten
11/02/09

@WestMantooth: I think the roommate Karen observes that the relationship between Peggy and Duck is just about sex and nothing more, and assumes he must be married. Peggy doesn't seem to realize yet that it is just about sex (and also maybe Duck's ulterior motives). It is certainly not a real relationship, or a relationship with a future. #madmenrecap
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redqueenmeg
11/02/09

@WestMantooth: I kinda got the feeling the Peggy/roomie relationship was falling apart and they were snarking at each other and that that was a dig at Peggy because Roomie knows about Pete. #madmenrecap
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WestMantooth
11/02/09

@FreeKitten: Okay. I can see that interpretation. I guess my first introduction to the roommate left me with a more progressive attitude about her, so the idea of marriage, while not gone, wouldn't be high on her priorities. A sex relationship wouldn't be odd to her.

It may be more of what comment about Duck's age like Midwestdesigner was saying. No future. #madmenrecap
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midwestdesigner
11/02/09

In reply to Mad Men: The Episode Where Everything Changes
Okay, I am just now watching last night's episode and am struck by Betty's emotional response to JFK's death, and Sally's witnessing of it. What will it do to Sally to see her mother cry over the death of the president and not Grandpa Gene, Betty's father? #madmenrecap
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reepicheep
11/02/09

@midwestdesigner: I think the assassination came as such a shock (didn't Trudy say something to the extent that "You don't go around shooting the President?") that Betty completely dropped her icy, emotionless WASP facade. I don't think it was intentional, I think she was so genuinely stunned by what had happened because suddenly her perfectly ordered little world in which one did not showcase emotion had literally been blown away in an instant. Sally has been shown to be a fairly astute little girl, and I think that in the scene where she watches her mother and Carla sit side by side, smoking and crying, she really shows that she is fully aware that something is amiss, and it's much bigger than when Grandpa Gene died. #madmenrecap
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midwestdesigner
11/02/09

@reepicheep: I guess I thought it was disturbing that Sally didn't really see her mother emote at the loss of her father, and instead totally shut Sally (and her emotions about the death) out. But her mother cracks for a stranger. #madmenrecap
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asha
11/02/09

@midwestdesigner: I get what you're saying, but I found this interesting as far as how Betty reacted:

[www.amctv.com] #madmenrecap
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Hana Maru
11/02/09

@midwestdesigner: I think that had a lot to do with what was going on with Don's secrets and lies, Henry and her marriage, and the recent death of her father(which was profoundly affecting her, though she didn't cry in front of the kids). It's not that she loves Kennedy more than her father, but that it's the straw that broke the camel's back. #madmenrecap
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Hana Maru
11/02/09

@asha: Ah, thank you for the link. I just watched it and Matt Weiner says the same thing about Betty. #madmenrecap
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deeemer
11/02/09

@midwestdesigner: @reepicheep:

After Gene died, they showed Betty all teary, with her face swollen from crying so much. Betty cracked when Sally showed hysterics, because in typical child fashion, her grief was misplaced into fear about the new child. So I really don't get all the "Betty only cries about strangers! What a horrible person she is!" remarks. #madmenrecap
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midwestdesigner
11/02/09

@deeemer: I was making an observation, not trying to make Betty out to be a horrible person. I think she's a complicated character that not's nearly as terrible as she can be made out to be. #madmenrecap
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midwestdesigner
11/02/09

@asha: Thanks for the link. I always mean to check out the behind-the-scenes stuff but don't! #madmenrecap
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