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posts about #madmenfeminism more → 15 Feminist Moments From Mad Men
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Mon Dec 7
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15 Feminist Moments From Mad Men |
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07/15/09
it's actually a sterling silver pencil on a chain that was my grandmother's - she wore it when she worked as a lab technician in the late 1940's :)
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@heatherwritesstuff:
August 16!
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Now, as I haven't seen the show, I can't say whether the creator is right, but I can say that I think his logic is flawed. By that logic, Rock of Love is feminist. And... well, arguing that point would make my head hurt way too much. In other words, it may be feminist, but merely depicting bad treatment of women isn't why. I'm also concerned that, regardless of intention, feminist is not the way it comes across. I know at least a few misogynistic idiots who love this show, and somehow I don't think they're taking "I should treat women better" away from it.
07/14/09
It is not just that the show portrays sexism. It is how the show portrays sexism, how the characters react, how the camera zooms in and out to get your focus in certain areas, and how the show also incorporates women who are pushing against a ceiling that was a heck of a lot lower than it is today.
You see not only the sexism, but the result of the sexism. You don't just see a man treat his wife like shit, you also see what happens to the wife and how she starts to lose herself and the impact that has on her children.
You also see a secretary become the first female copy writer in the office. You see a female artist who refuses to be what society wants her to be. You see a woman who is an executive in her family businesses.
If a man watches a woman get raped on the floor by her fiance and doesn't recognize it is wrong, that has nothing to do with the television show. That has to do with the man. Some people will just never see what they don't want to see.
07/14/09
Anyways, I echo everything that Lymed said.
07/14/09
I'm not sure where I implied that the show should not depict women realistically, so I don't really understand why you felt the need to inform me that that would be sugar coating...
"It is not just that the show portrays sexism. It is how the show portrays sexism, how the characters react, how the camera zooms in and out to get your focus in certain areas,..."
So, yes, that was also my point. I don't (and admittedly can't, since I've never seen the show) disagree with the creator's claim that Mad Men is feminist. I disagree with his reasoning. In other words "painfully accurate portrayal of the treatment of women" does not necessarily equal feminist.
As for the part of my comment about how misogynistic men receive it, I said I was concerned. I never said that their interpretation was anyone else's fault. There's been plenty of talk here about how Bruno is received among homophobes, regardless of Sascha Baron Cohen's potential intent of illuminating ignorance, and this is much the same.
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Again, I'm not the one to argue this position, nor do I really care to. Just trying to add nuance to the conversation here, as usual. It's always useful to entertain the other facets of reality, instead of everyone agreeing that a show that is at the very least questionable is 100% feminist.
07/14/09
And I echo everything I said in response to Lymed.
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07/14/09
I'm too poor/cheap for iTunes, but I've never heard of Surfthechannel! I will have to give it a try.
07/14/09
I think you're absolutely right, by the way, about glorifying the era at the same time as exposing it for its ugliness. I've found myself thinking that it would be great to live then... and then I think, "if I were a white man." But, I think the fact that it makes you think that--that it would be a great time to live, but only if you fit into a tiny narrow little box--is the whole point. And it definitely makes that point obvious. I'd still recommend it to you.
07/15/09
07/15/09
It's difficult to have a conversation when you haven't seen it, as every point I make will have to refer to details of the show you won't be familiar with.
Anyone who watches this show and uses it to excuse misogyny is, I feel safe in saying, a failure at story interpretation. It doesn't glorify advertising, or anything about this lifestyle, either. If anything, it shows a lot of miserable, flawed, repressed, and damaged people on the brink of a massive upheaval in the culture which will effect both their personal lives and their work lives.
That's really what the show is exploring. It doesn't treat women badly, it shows ways in which women were (and are) treated badly, and draws parallels that era with this one. It's intelligent, well written, and has tackled a huge range of subjects that are particularly relevant to women.
You can't really say any of that about Rock of Love, for instance. You can't compare a "reality" show to a fictional, serialized narrative.
I would much rather the show didn't have to say "We are feminist, treating women badly is wrong" and let me, the viewer, get that. People who don't wouldn't even if you did hit them over head with it.
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07/15/09
But you're right some people watch this show and see them smoking like chimney's, talking in a very hurtful way without a care to PC-ism, and drinking like fish but fail to see what (IMO at least) is very blatant and heavy-handed (in a good way) message that these times were shitty too because they are so enamored of that way of life. It's like people who walk away from some heavy handed horror films just talking about the gore instead of seeing the messages a lot of them send out. (Night of the Living Dead, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and even Jaws to name a few) Some people just can't get past those things unfortunately.
07/15/09
I get your argument but actually i don't think that it glorifies the era at all although undoubtedly there are those who take that from it (and it would be foolish to pretend they didn't) but to not watch a show on those grounds is, in my opinion, to diminish that show and to suggest that Americans aren't capable of watching complicated, grown-up television with morally grey characters but instead require to be spoonfed television that is uncomplicated and clearly defined.
Mad Men isn't a straight-forward piece of programming and it has flaws but I would still check it out regardless of the fact that there are some misogynist idiots out there.
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The irony is that Mad Men really is on of the truly adult, feminist series on TV right now. While I sometimes admire those who question Jezebel bandwagon-ery, this is not one of those times.
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07/14/09
Thank you, Mad Men, for helping teach me why my asskicking lawyer grandma was so damn PISSED all the time.
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I am almost addicted to the feeling I get when women get sexually harassed on this show. The shock and the gasp. Funny and awful.
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07/14/09
I found one of the HuffPo writer's lines about the show to be sadly telling about just how patriarchal and male-centered our society still is, though: "What makes the show tick is our sense that it's realistically portraying something important about the treatment of women at a certain point in the past while portraying something equally important about men today. We are trapped."
So the struggles the men in the show face are still relevant, but those of the women are relegated to "a certain point in the past?" Seriously?
07/14/09
I've never been a smoker, never wanted to be a smoker, until I started watching this show.
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07/14/09
Last Christmas I was watching MM on my laptop at the airport waiting for a very delayed flight. An woman in her sixties started talking to me about the show ("My, what a figure!" she said about Joan) and said she feels its pretty accurate in the depiction about how women were treated. She was pretty rad.
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