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Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
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Maulleigh
08/29/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
According to wordnetweb.princeton.edu

she used it correctly and it has nothing to do with race.

Is this like people getting upset when other people use words like "niggardly?" Which sounds like the nword but is completely unrelated.
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Maulleigh
08/29/09

@Maulleigh: Noun

* S: (n) white hope, great white hope (someone (or something) expected to achieve great success in a given field) "this company is the great white hope of the nuclear industry's waste management policy"

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Good Cop Baby Cop
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
Ladies, give her a break. It's not like Jack Johnson was imprisoned in Leavenworth, which is in her district.

Oh, wait.
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foodandshoes
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
Well, she apologized. That's mighty white of her.
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IamnotStarJones
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
When is A&E going to do their Intervention episode featuring the Republican Party? Because they are addicted to racism and it's killing them!
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frozenfresa
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
Guys, its ok. She was obviously channeling Captain Ahab and comparing America to Moby Dick.
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Lin-Z [linguist on duty]
08/28/09

@frozenfresa: Call her Ishmael.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
Rep. Lynn Jenkins has defended her remark saying that Republicans need a "great white hope," explaining that she didn't realize the phrase had a racist connotation.

Sooooooooo, she is either a lying racist or an idiot with no common sense. Or perhaps it's both?
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lalaland13
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
The outcry has prompted Jenkins to ditch plans for a new slogan: "Republicans: We're All-White."
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o-line
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
Well, now I think we all know who "The Great White Hope" of the Republican Party won't be.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ promoted this comment Edited by o-line at 08/28/09 1:28 PM o-line was starred o-line was unstarred

sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
WOW. Republicans never cease to amaze me.
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vivianthelibrarian
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
I don't know about you guys but the 'Awwww shucks, I was too DUMB to realise what I was saying' defense is not really something I like to hear from elected officials. I like to think that the people in charge of governing and representing the citizens of their nation are, you know, smart-ish. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone misspeaks or misunderstands. But no, not in this case. You don't just throw around terms and phrases like that without understanding what they mean; especially when you have a team of people employed specifically to make sure you don't say any dumb shit.
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EkaterinaBallerina promoted this comment vivianthelibrarian was starred

EkaterinaBallerina
08/28/09

@vivianthelibrarian: Agreed. I'm tired of elected officials who claim to be good patriots or "True Americans" saying shit like this. A "True American" would know a thing or two about American history. Is that asking too much?
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Dodgergirl
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
Oh, and funny story, Congress passed a resolution in July urging a presidential pardon for Jack Johnson, who went to jail for having a relationship with a white woman.
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remedios
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
I'm going to throw it out there. I consider myself a fairly well educated person, more informed than the average American anyway (no Rachel Maddow, but no Sarah Palin either). I really didn't know the origins of this term either. I have some vague knowledge that it had to do with sports, and had always heard it referred to as a positive thing. I probably would have assumed that it had to do with some uber-pale guy (I was made fun of quite a bit for being so white), and for some reason I thought it had to do with a sports competition against someone from another country. Clearly i was wrong. But since I had always heard it used as a positive phrase, without knowing the true origin, I probably wouldn't have bothered to look it up.

Someone below mentions the use of the term "gypped"--how often does that word get used when people don't think of any negative association with gypsies? What about men as "tall, dark and handsome"? Is that something-ist? Does that mean tan? of some sort of ethnicity other than caucasian? or just dark hair? I have no clue, to be honest. I don't know the origin. It could be from an offensive origin or from something completely innocuous.

I have often been painfully unaware of certain terms as derogatory terms to ward a particular ethnic group. I'm not sure why.
I do expect my elected officials to be well-informed, but I don't expect them to know all of sports / cultural history. Now if she's lying, that's another thing.
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EkaterinaBallerina
08/28/09

@remedios: See Dogergirl's comment above. This piece of history came up this summer. She should have known better.

And this: "sports / cultural history" makes it sound unimportant when in fact it's not. It's part of this country's larger racial history.
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JinxyMcDeath
08/28/09

@remedios: I think saying "Great White Hope" is pretty obvious, though. It's not like "gypped" which quite frankly I spell as "jipped" and if you google it the dictionary accepts that spelling as well since its origin has essentially been lost on the people who use it as it is so common. "The Great White Hope" is not so commonly used that its origin has been lost. Who even says that? Even if you don't know the origin, it sounds likes she's hoping some white guy comes and saves the day.
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SarahMC
08/28/09

@remedios: It's not terrible not to know the origin of the phrase.

But it SOUNDS effing racist! But like most white people, Jenkins probably doesn't think of "white" as racial. Only not-whites have "race."
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remedios
08/28/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: Ah, while I don't recall that, she, as a member of the Congress that apparently passed that resolution, should, then.

I've looked up a bit more on the incident, but perhaps you can point me in the right direction that highlights the impact this had on race. Most of what I've read speaks of it more as an example of the time, something reflecting racial views at the time, but not something larger, something that started something in the civil rights movement? What I've read reminds me a lot of the Battle of the Sexes, only that was obviously a lot more recent.

My ignorance may also be because of my hatred for boxing. I find it to be simply the modern day gladiator fights, so if the topic of boxing does come up, my ears tend to turn off.
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remedios
08/28/09

@SarahMC: Well like I said above, I never thought of it much at all, but I probably wouldn't have thought of it as racist because 1. I'd heard it as a positive thing (I thought, anyway! apparently I've heard it uttered by other ignorant folks or racists, or both); and 2. I have always had people comment on my being so pale, so white. I've been called everything that brings up something about ghosts (Casper was a popular one), white anything, snowflakes, whatever--all things that emphasize whiteness (but rarely said as a compliment--only "porcelain" for that). Most names people used focused on my pale skin. So my first thought without knowing the history would be that this guy was probably extremely pale, maybe an Irish guy, and this was his "signature" of sorts.

I'm not saying anyone has to have gone through that thought process. It's just that so many comments are essentially calling me a total moron for not knowing this piece of history and for not automatically jumping to race as the basis.
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SarahMC
08/28/09

@remedios: Yes, it's uttered as a positive thing: for whites. White, as opposed to black. Telling someone they are a credit to their race may come across as a compliment but it's an insult to the race as a whole.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
08/28/09

@remedios: As someone said more eloquently below, there's a tremendous amount of privilege in being able to hear "great white hope," and not immediately think "as opposed to what?"

I don't think it's moronic for the average person not to know the precise origin of the term, but I'd be very curious to understand how you've heard this term used positively in a context that didn't immediately scan as racist, because I honestly can't imagine one.

Here is a bit of background on Jack Johnson that contexualizes the significance of the public reaction to him: [www.pbs.org]
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hausfrau76
08/28/09

@SarahMC: Oh I fucking HATE when I get that! Or: "You MUST be mixed with something else. There's no way you can be all black. You are far too smart/pretty/ educated to be all black!"

How the fuck is that a complement? Not that I'm railing against you specifically, but I have heard these comments one too many times.
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remedios
08/28/09

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: I think that's valid, and frankly I doubt I've ever said it. It's just something on the surface of society that I'd always assumed was more about a lone individual taking on a mighty power and winning (and I guess he lost anyway; she seems to have this same flaw, since she assumes it as a winning allusion), though I can't provide any particular reference. And because of all the comments I'd grown up with referencing how damn pale I am, that's what I would think of. It's sort of like calling Sinatra ol' blue eyes. If it was Great Blue Eyed Hope, without knowing anything else, should we think blue eyed a la Toni Morrison's The Bluest Eye? Or something more innocuous? Assuming no knowledge of the actual origin, I get where the racist reading would come from, but I also see how someone could see it as something else, and that, no one else seems able to see. It's not just a matter of white as opposed to... It's an alternative explanation altogether, a potential reason for the inclusion of "white" in the phrase, that my experience informed and my experience would create. For me, when someone commented on me being white, the "as opposed to" was tan and beautiful.
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SarahMC
08/28/09

@remedios: Please, you've got to stop comparing racism towards blacks to people telling you how white your white skin is. I am about to head out so I don't have time to go into the specifics as to why, but... trust me.
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remedios
08/28/09

@SarahMC: I was afraid this might happen. I was going to post a "don't read more into this" warning, but held off. I in no way am attempting to make the two on par with each other. I am merely trying to explain why someone might have a different thought process. The only reason I've repeated it is because a lot of the responses I've gotten don't seem to be have acknowledged it, and it is where the thought process starts. I've gotten a lot of responses about how it is so obviously racist, and while, as I said, I get how that can be read, I also get an alternative reading. That's all. (Oh, but I was responding to the "as opposed to" because it was in a response.) I know there are so many more things wrapped up there that don't even remotely compare.

Anywho, I think at this point, there's really nothing more I can say other than repeat myself in response to things others have said, so I will consider this a dead end.

One last thing, since I don't want to respond to each one (unless necessary)-- the points others are bringing up are valid, are helpful, do bring something to the table that I didn't have before. And I do appreciate that the responses in thread have been respectful. Even in disagreeing, I'm glad we can do so without degenerating to meanness... another reason I love this site.
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Edited by remedios at 08/28/09 5:05 PM remedios was starred remedios was unstarred

Lymed
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
It doesn't matter if she knew the origins of the phrase. Even if the origins came from marshmallows or snowflakes, saying you need something white to defeat something supported by a Black President has racist connotations.
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Edited by Lymed at 08/28/09 1:27 PM Lymed was starred Lymed was unstarred

Maritsa
08/28/09

@Lymed: BINGO.
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Skellatrix
08/28/09

@Lymed: THANK YOU. It doesn't take more than 2 braincells to realize this!
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muddgirl
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
OK, let me put something out there straight.

I didn't know the history of the phrase before this coverage. But when I heard her say, "We need a great white hope", I STILL KNEW IT WAS HELLA RACIST.

It was a racist phrase originally, and even without that history, in the context of her speech, it was still a racist phrase.

So yeah, no dice. Get a speechwriter and edit that shit before you say it.
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Atomic Bowling
08/28/09

In reply to Congresswoman Says She Wasn't Aware "Great White Hope" Has Racist Connotation
Ok, I'm going to admit that I had never heard that saying before last Fall, and I still don't really get it completely. That said, it seems pretty obvious that it's racial in nature, so not even knowing what it meant or what the origins are it was pretty clear to me that it's not something you should be saying when referring to defeating a black candidate (or anyone, for that matter). She's either lying or really dumb, but either way it doesn't do anything to improve my opinion of her.
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