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"You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
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whynotshesaid
08/21/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
Um, I have four friends, and I'm not lonely. I'm just way selective about who I spend my time with.

And yes, I am a writer. But I don't think the two are related.
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voteforme
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
My mom read the Twilight series and she thought it needed more sex. I stopped playing my music for her because she wanted me to push myself in ways I was uncomfortable with. But she's a lit prof. She doesn't want her kids to come up with boring content.

My take on the creative life is that it can be very lonely, although not in Moore's proactive/pre-emptive way. You're driven by this pathological, sickening drive to express yourself but you always fall a little short. You don't want a normal lifestyle, although sometimes you wish that you did.
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rixatrix
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
My dad once went through my room when I was 13 and found a notebook I'd been writing a story in. It was all drivel - parallel universes where girls meet handsome, angsty princes and spend all day taking their clothes off and fooling around inside castle walls. Dad freaked out and assumed I was WAY more sexually experienced when I was - the writing was a way to enjoy being by myself. It was humiliating - he drilled my mom about it and accused her of letting me get away with too much. It still pisses me off to this day.

But the part about writing something you'd never show your parents is right on. Get into the guts of it.
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maybeimamazed02
08/21/09

@rixatrix: I write YA, and just wrote my first sex scene a few weeks ago. I KNOW that if the novel is ever published, my mom will be all, "was this you? was this you?" (It wasn't.) Granted, it's not super-graphic, but it does allude to orgasms and other things, which I'm sure will freak her the hell out.

(I'm 29, by the way. But I was raised Catholic, which explains a LOT.)

Oh well. I've gotten good feedback on the chapter, so it's staying.
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rixatrix
08/22/09

@maybeimamazed02: Oh no, you poor thing. =o) I have enough Catholic/ex-Catholic friends to know that the guilt your lot suffers is far worse than anything I can imagine.

I love YA. How far along is your book?
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lilyblaze
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
Writing has always been acts of rebellion and vengeance to me, and I've been writing things that my parents should never see since I was 11. My dad has seen some of my stuff and he's been pretty cool about it, but my mom wants me to write uplifting things that will help others and threatens to never talk to me again if I write bad things about her. But I love what I'll do and I'll keep doing it without ever being "nice."

I also have one misanthropic boyfriend and very few friends, and don't go to most of the social events in my MFA department because I'm anti-social and would rather work on my novel.
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jigglyball
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
If a book's flap copy contaings the words,"uplifting," "enlightening," and to some degree, anything along the lines of "fortifying," I put that shit back on the shelf.

That's simply not my taste.

And reading everyone's comments makes me want to read everyone's writing!
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Edited by jigglyball at 08/20/09 7:31 PM jigglyball was starred jigglyball was unstarred

lilyblaze
08/20/09

@jigglyball: You're awesome.
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jigglyball
08/20/09

@lilyblaze: Why thanks!

That's the most forthright compliment I've received today. Much better than my editor's, "Jigglyball, your article was very well written, and I enjoyed reading it... then again, it's probably only because you had good subject matter." THANKS.
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LaComtesse
08/20/09

@jigglyball: HA! Reading twins.
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jigglyball
08/20/09

@LaComtesse: I'll have to tell my mother that there is, in fact, another woman in this world who can tolerate books that are not sunshines and rainbows and shiny, happy people.
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whynotshesaid
08/21/09

@jigglyball: ASS. That sucks. I hate your editor for you.
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wtfox?!
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
I'm not a fiction writer, but I do publish stuff (academic essays wooo), and while I have no problem sending articles for review and having various people go over them, I feel really weird when my mom and dad ask if they can see what I'm working on.
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kellieherson
08/20/09

@wtfox?!: Oh, agreed. The only pieces of writing I can let my parents read are things I've written for my college newspaper, but I think that's because I don't really give a shit about or feel anything personal toward it. And this is despite being extremely close to my mom.
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MissMollyKate
08/20/09

@wtfox?!: I'm a writer (of fiction, but with a day job), who found it much, much easier to work on my novel, which contains some dark and edgy stuff, after my mom died. It's because I don't have to worry about her reading it and wishing her daughter had written about something happier. My dad is better at handling the stuff that comes from a dark place, so him I'm not worried about. So I see from where Moore (whom I love, by the way) is coming.
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maybeimamazed02
08/21/09

@kellieherson: I take writing classes and am in a writing group where I workshop regularly. However, the deal I have with my parents is, they get to read my stuff if/when it gets published. Not before.

My stuff isn't particularly controversial or dark. However, most if it is NOT kind to small towns...and I grew up in a small town. I have a feeling that the 'rents will take it personally. Also, there's sex and/or fooling around, so...yeah.
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LaComtesse
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
Ugh.
MS. Moore,

You have not described "writers." You have described Gregory House, MD. Writers run the gamut from convivial to agoraphobic. This concept of "it takes a special person to be an artist" is such pompous, snobbish bullshit and it comes from every segment of the artistic community--THIS is why "artists" only have four friends. It's not their craft, it's the shitastic attitude they take towards what it is they do.

Signed,
A Writer
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LaComtesse
08/20/09

PS: I see absolutely no reason your own parents couldn't read "Who Will Run the Frog Hospital."
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Ratinski
08/20/09

@LaComtesse: I didn't really see her as saying YOU MUST NEVER EVER WRITE ANYTHING YOU WANT YOUR PARENTS TO SEE, though. I think she was basically telling them to try tackling subjects that made them (and thus their parents, most likely) uncomfortable. And as another writer, I don't really think that's bad at all.
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jigglyball
08/20/09

@LaComtesse: I agree that Moore's picture of the artist borders on charicature, but I also get the sense that she may be offering this edgy view to balance out the interview's placement in Elle.

Perhaps she wouldn't charicaturize and/or universalize her experience if this appeared in, say, The Atlantic Monthly. She seems self aware enough to be capable of effing with a lady's mag interviewer.

Then again, I am not a writer, and I have not read Moore's work.
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jigglyball
08/20/09

@jigglyball: Unless of course you consider non-fiction sports articles, medical articles, business articles, or financial articles "writing." I rarely do.
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LaComtesse
08/20/09

@Ratinski: Probably, but in light of the other annoying quote, I'm going to stick to judgmental and righteous bluster ;-)

@jigglyball: If that is the case that's annoying, too. Be yourself no matter who you're with.
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jigglyball
08/20/09

@LaComtesse: Good point. But can't you see it being fun to mess with someone who's more accustomed to interviewing the likes of Kate Hudson about skincare and diet secrets? And it's not like the general Elle readership is going to call her out.

Mind you, I'm fabricating this entire ruse, and you could be totally right that Moore's simply a bit too charmed with her writerly identity.
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LaComtesse
08/20/09

@jigglyball: Tell you what, one day when my novel gets published *crossing fingers* I will TOTALLY fuck with the ladymag writers.

Interviewer: So, LaComtesse, in your book your main character doesn't have a man in her life. Is she based on you?

LC: No. I relate a lot more to the figure in the main character's nightmares who breaks people's teeth with a hammer because watching them writhe in agony is the only thing that makes her feel anything. Do you ever feel that way? *intense, unblinking stare* I feel really close to you right now. And you have such a beautiful smile...
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nora charles
08/20/09

@LaComtesse: I don't think that what she's saying is universally true, but I do think there's some truth in it. In order to write something interesting and truly "great" or even just good, you have to be comfortable broaching subjects and emotions and experiences that are uncomfortable for most people to face. Being a friendly, social, well-adjusted person involves being attuned to how other people perceive you, while writing something interesting usually means that you have to stop caring how other people perceive you. They're certainly not impossible to reconcile, but it's tougher than you're making it out to be.
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LaComtesse
08/20/09

@nora charles: "They're certainly not impossible to reconcile, but it's tougher than you're making it out to be."

I think people think it's more difficult than it actually is... ... said the well adjusted white middle class married woman with a wonderful family and the benefit of a good education...

Still, I don't in any way think well-adjusted means caring what people think about you. I think the opposite is true, in fact.
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jigglyball
08/20/09

@LaComtesse: We need to find you a publisher, stat.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
I wonder if forwarding this to my mother would make it better or worse that after insisting upon reading the work I had published most recently, she has seen fit to give me the silent treatment.
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Edited by samethingwedoeverynightpinky at 08/20/09 7:08 PM

Ratinski
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
I don't remember the last time I wrote something I'd be willing to show my parents. I love them, and I'm close enough that I call every single day, but I don't want them to read my writing.

This is possibly because my mother's probably still convinced anything "bad" is all about her.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
Hah. That sounds familiar. I've been accused of being too dark, negative, and death-obsessed in my writing, and honestly, it confuses the hell out of me. The world's most pseudo pseudo-goth could out-dark me before breakfast. But there are my students, pointing out to me casually, "All of your stories end in death!" And these are just the anecdotes I tell in class.

She has a point about writing. Natural writers tend to be unembarrassed observers, and aren't always "nice" as a general rule. When I taught creative writing, I encouraged my students to listen to strangers' conversations in public, and every one of them told me they couldn't do that because it was rude. They were also extremely reluctant to adapt their own experiences for stories, or to appear critical of anything, or to have unhappy endings. It was a good teachable moment, but also reminded me that some things I take about myself as a matter of course are odd to other people. Some get it, some don't.
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phantom lady
08/20/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: I would have excelled in your class. I am a first rate eavesdropper. you hear the best stuff totally out of context.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
08/20/09

@phantom lady: I was really surprised when they said that. I'd been doing it for years, just because I'm like that! Nobody really told me ever that it was rude. I find you hear great stuff if you put your earphones on but leave your iPod off. People think you can't hear them.
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Maggita
08/20/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: If I could have any superpower, it would be the ability to stare at people without them noticing. Something about watching people makes it easier to hear them, and I can make up all sorts of ruses about how she's his mistress but they're fighting, and he won't let her meet his kids. It's excellent.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
08/20/09

@Maggita: One of my and Mr. JB's favorite games during our poorest poor years was to go to the mall and sit on a bench where we could watch people coming up an escalator. Then we'd make up the dialogue for their conversation. It wasn't always scintillating, but it was a terrific exercise in reading people's body language and trying to create stories based on what they were wearing or doing. They couldn't see us because their backs were to us, and even if they had, they probably wouldn't have known what we were doing. It was an ideal location.
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Casquivana
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
She's commenting on the close relationship young people today often have with their parents, but this closeness can breathe an eagerness to please not only the parents themselves, but authority in general.
Ouch. This one hits close to home. I believe she is right, and it is something I have struggled with for the last few years, trying to be an adult and realizing that in being so, maybe I shouldn't be so attached to my parents. I mean, I'm still incredibly close to both of them, and love them madly, but it is true that such closeness can have a stifling effect in one's rebellions, which sometimes are necessary. And it could also help explain some of the apathy associated with my generation.
She does have some peculiar ideas, but she seems to be a great teacher, even if she sometimes makes her students uncomfortable. And the fact that she seems so eager to challenge them to get out of their comfort zone and their desire to please others, sounds like a great thing.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
08/20/09

@Casquivana: I have found it to be very true of my students over the years, though it was much more pronounced at Big Ten University than it is now at Small State College. I saw a lot of tears when teaching at BTU--from, "My mom said I'll never get into graduate school if I get a B in English!" to "My parents will cut off my tuition if I don't vote for Bush!" My students now tend to be from working-class families and much more emancipated, though I'm sure they call home much more often than I ever did. My parents get liverish if I call more than once a week. If it's been three weeks, I send them a text to tell them I'm still alive.
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Casquivana
08/20/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: Maybe at BTU there was more anxiety about expectations regarding social status and economic situation? I went to a fancy pants private university in my country, and I always noticed heightened (as in *insane*) anxiety in my peers about meeting expectations when compared to people who attended public, or smaller, universities.But I do think that many people I know who are close to their parents, tend to be more "laid-back" about rebelling, and sometimes they simply postpone existential crises (I know I did.) And it's weird because is not so much about the desire to please, but mostly about not creating trouble or drama. In my case, I think that was increased because I grew up among professors, and that gave me certain attitude regarding authority in general, of not questioning it; I merely dismiss it or pretend to be OK with it and then have my way, which I don't think it's a very healthy thing.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
08/20/09

@Casquivana: Well, BTU was a public university too, but yeah, in that area, you do get a higher percentage of affluent, high-achieving students at public universities than you do here, where such students tend to go to private schools. Their grade anxiety rivaled the undergrads at the private school where I did my MA. And I don't think your attitude is all that unhealthy. Sometimes you do just have to get along. I've been in school for a long, long time, and it's a good coping mechanism for professors or colleagues you don't like but still have to please. Especially at the graduate level, I'd get people whose political commitments really irked me, and I'd have to keep my yap shut in class and try to make my point in my papers, or find a neutral subject to discuss. Unless you want to spend your whole life fighting with people, it's a way to get by until you have the authority to say whatever you want, whenever you want, without fear of reprisal.
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whynotshesaid
08/21/09

@Casquivana: And it's weird because is not so much about the desire to please, but mostly about not creating trouble or drama.

That's been absolutely true in my life. It's not so much that I didn't want to disappoint my parents as much as I didn't want to listen to them harangue me or see their stares of disappointment.
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evilqueenmagda
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
Oh, I very much agree with her sentiments on the writing life. So often my friends lecture me for being too distant, too willing to devote time to writing and not to them. But to quote Tina Fey: bitches get stuff done. I have a day job to support the writing, which means the writing gets done in off hours. And the frequency with which I turn down invitations to social events is often seen as rude and unappreciative.
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maybeimamazed02
08/21/09

@evilqueenmagda: I didn't know Tina Fey said that, but I LOVE it!

Yeah, social time with friends has been severely cut since I started writing seriously. (I too have a day job that is intense in its own right.) Most are pretty understanding, but sometimes I have to gently remind them that writing is like a job for me too, albeit an unpaid one (for now).
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wundersmack
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
Yeah, writers SO get the shaft. Smithsonian magazine has created a "Media Advisory Panel" to which opinionated writer folk can contribute. The compensation for their brilliance is an entry into a "drawing to win a robotic vacuum cleaner valued at $299."

OK, sure, non-writers can enter, too, but c'mon, who would listen to them?
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LAmonkeygirl
08/20/09

In reply to "You Have To Be Willing To Have Only Four Friends": Lorrie Moore On Writing
Lorrie Moore is one of my favorite contemporary writers. Back in my MFA workshop days, I longed to be the next Lorrie Moore. Whether or not that will or can happen has yet to be decided, but I do urge Jezebels to read her work. Acerbic, funny, heartbreaking but never maudlin or manipulative.

I'm glad to hear she has a new book coming out. It's been too long!
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NellMood
08/20/09

@LAmonkeygirl: I am so, so excited for her next book. She's definitely on my short list of favorites.
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