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New York, 9:09 PM
Tue Dec 15
73 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    12/14/09

    In reply to "Taking A Man's Name Opened Up A New World:" Why A Blogger Hid Her Gender
    As SarahMC mentions downthread, this is an experiment that can easily be replicated (sort of). If you're a man, join a general interest discussion board (music, movies, news headlines) with an 'obviously' feminine name –Pocahontas78, TheMissus, whatever. Post. Don't change your writing style, don't lie (omit details that would reveal your penis ownership, if you must). See how long it takes until someone a) Asks your for a photo, b) Questions your taste in movies/music/books because you're a woman, c) Questions your views on a post about sex or relationship, d) Calls you hysterical.

    Or, if you're a woman, use an 'obviously' male screen name and bask in a blank slate where people can base their opinions on you and your opinions based on what you actually write.
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of lisas lisas
    12/14/09

    In reply to "Taking A Man's Name Opened Up A New World:" Why A Blogger Hid Her Gender
    There were two things about this story that struck me, number one is that I wish she felt comfortable representing as a woman from now on because visible women in power is good for equality.

    Number two is that she's keeping the male pseudonym in part because she feels safer that way, and it pisses me off that we are collectively being kept from achieving #1 because of the threat of violence.

    aaaand now I'm going to go watch the surprised kitten. Scuse me.
     Reply
    lisas was starred lisas was unstarred
    Image of SarahMC SarahMC
    12/14/09

    In reply to "Taking A Man's Name Opened Up A New World:" Why A Blogger Hid Her Gender
    The comments over there are interesting. A lot of people seem shocked that sexism still exists.

    I wish every man who spends time commenting on blogs (other than Jezebel) would use a "feminine" handle for a day as an experiment.
     Reply
    SarahMC was starred SarahMC was unstarred
    Image of femme-bot femme-bot
    12/14/09

    @SarahMC: They'd break down after the first "TITS OR GTFO".
     Reply
    femme-bot was starred femme-bot was unstarred
    Image of mordicai mordicai
    12/14/09

    @SarahMC: Crap, my handle is going to be "Morticia," isn't it?
     Reply
    morninggloria promoted this comment mordicai was starred mordicai was unstarred
    Image of Atomic Bowling Atomic Bowling
    12/14/09

    @SarahMC: What fascinates me is the number of people saying, "oh well, I don't blame you, you did what you had to do to take care of your kids!". It kind of irks me that people think it's acceptable to misrepresent yourself if it's for the purpose of taking care of your family, but if it's just for yourself or because you just don't want to be treated like crap on the basis of your identity alone, well, that's a different story!
     Reply
    cate3710 promoted this comment Atomic Bowling was starred Atomic Bowling was unstarred
    Image of morninggloria morninggloria
    12/14/09

    @mordicai: Heh heh heh. Yes, it is.

    Either that or "mordicai's mom."
     Reply
    morninggloria was starred morninggloria was unstarred
    Image of mordicai mordicai
    12/14/09

    @morninggloria: You know, Microsoft spellcheck corrects "Mordicai" to "mortician."

    I get that A LOT.
     Reply
    mordicai was starred mordicai was unstarred
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    12/14/09

    @SarahMC: I think that's an excellent idea. But make it really obviously feminine. If it's too neutral, you're assumed to be male until you prove otherwise. As in life, I guess.

    The best part is revealing that you're a woman and being told you write like a man, and that that's intended as a compliment.
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of Flackette Goes Retro Flackette Goes Retro
    12/14/09

    In reply to "Taking A Man's Name Opened Up A New World:" Why A Blogger Hid Her Gender
    Oh, I actually know a professor who had her name legally changed to her first and middle initials, so she could use it on her research publications. Her name now sounds totally gender-neutral, which was her goal. It's interesting, because she writes about violence against women, yet still found that using a neutral/possibly male moniker was to her advantage.
     Reply
    Flackette Goes Retro was starred Flackette Goes Retro was unstarred
    Image of Flackette Goes Retro Flackette Goes Retro
    12/14/09

    In reply to "Taking A Man's Name Opened Up A New World:" Why A Blogger Hid Her Gender
    Paging George Eliot.
     Reply
    Flackette Goes Retro was starred Flackette Goes Retro was unstarred
    Image of Flackette Goes Retro Flackette Goes Retro
    12/14/09

    @Flackette Goes Retro:
     Reply
    Flackette Goes Retro was starred Flackette Goes Retro was unstarred
    Image of spamanda spamanda
    12/14/09

    In reply to "Taking A Man's Name Opened Up A New World:" Why A Blogger Hid Her Gender
    In my previous life as a graphic designer, occasionally they'd pick someone to teach new skills to and to promote. Mostly it was web design, flash, that sort of thing.
    Even when I BEGGED to be that person, they passed me over for a male. A male who was NOT interested in learning it. There were only two men in our department at the time, and they both were "selected" to get the new training, while the women were expected to just do the same thing over and over.
    There is still definitely a thought that men are "better" at some things than women are. I wish I could have figured out how to break that at my job, but I couldn't. I quit instead.
     Reply
    spamanda was starred spamanda was unstarred
    Image of ytuhermanotambien ytuhermanotambien
    12/14/09

    @spamanda: This happened to me in a legal job as well-- and I wish I had given more of an explanation for how that sexism played a part in me quitting.
     Reply
    Alys Brangwin has a huge talent promoted this comment ytuhermanotambien was starred ytuhermanotambien was unstarred
    Image of token_illiterate_commenter token_illiterate_commenter
    12/14/09

    @spamanda: Sadly, I've seen the same thing where I work. Women can only be cashiers, receptionists, office managers or in accounting. The higher paid sales, purchasing, and building plan work is all male. When ever a woman has tried to work sales instead of being a cashier she has typically ended up doing both for cashier wages. The only place women have an advantage here is in cabinet design. They do pretty well, but they are bringing in huge business so they should be. Even they have no where to advance to.
     Reply
    token_illiterate_commenter was starred token_illiterate_commenter was unstarred
    Image of banana-bread banana-bread
    12/14/09

    @token_illiterate_commenter: That's awful. I've been seeing all these articles blaming women for not having higher wages because they didn't ask for them. How about all of us who are practically begging for higher level work, but are only allowed to do so if we get the same pay as before? *rage*
     Reply
    token_illiterate_commenter promoted this comment banana-bread was starred banana-bread was unstarred
    Image of redqueenmeg redqueenmeg
    12/14/09

    @spamanda: I so believe this.

    I tried to get into my schools Advanced Placement Computer Programming class my junior year of high school. I was told they weren't taking juniors in it, only seniors, because juniors didn't have enough math background. I backed off.

    I visited that class to deliver a message to the teacher the following (my junior) year. That class was half juniors, all male, none of whom had one day more of math classes than I had, and plenty of whom had worse math grades than I did.
     Reply
    redqueenmeg was starred redqueenmeg was unstarred
    Image of littlepj littlepj
    12/14/09

    @redqueenmeg: I had a similar experience in high school, trying to get into the highest level science class available, Mathematical Physics, my senior year. I was pretty much told to my face that I wasn't smart enough to take it (I'm not sure any girls got into that class that year), even though I had gotten pretty good grades in related classes. I went on to get a double B.S. degree in math and physics and will be getting my PhD in physics in May, so clearly they can suck it.
     Reply
    Alys Brangwin has a huge talent promoted this comment littlepj was starred littlepj was unstarred
    Image of redqueenmeg redqueenmeg
    08:28 AM

    @littlepj: Hah, awesome. I bow to you. I suck at physics. Bio is my game. ;)
     Reply
    redqueenmeg was starred redqueenmeg was unstarred
    Image of deeemer deeemer
    12/14/09

    In reply to "Taking A Man's Name Opened Up A New World:" Why A Blogger Hid Her Gender
    Wow. Big shocker there. I totally didn't see that coming, what with my male coworkers slacking off and generally ordering the female "underlings" to perform a million menial jobs to make their own easier. And then getting promoted.

    What a surprise! I'm going to drink now.
     Reply
    deeemer was starred deeemer was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    12/14/09

    In reply to "Taking A Man's Name Opened Up A New World:" Why A Blogger Hid Her Gender
    So, it sounds like because the site and business is branded as masculine she drew more business? Because, if she's being paid for a service, I assume her clients were aware of her real name.

    This might have more to do with the particular industry she's involved in and the fact that her clients were drawn to her particular brand. If she's a web designer we have to think about just who is in need of these services and for what products.

    Honestly, this doesn't bug me in the least. If she wanted to take advantage of this other identity and it empowered her, I'm all for it.

    Rock on.
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of FotoVerite FotoVerite
    12/14/09

    @Penny: And this is why I already have hearted you.

    From a web developer perspective we usually don't think about gender when we are looking for designer. It's all about the portfolio and what they think they want to do with the site. Course I'm in medium size websites the upper echelon could have a more boy's club ethos.
     Reply
    Penny promoted this comment FotoVerite was starred FotoVerite was unstarred
    Image of Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd)
    12/14/09

    @Penny: I don't think that her clients necessarily knew her real name. She probably has payments going to a business entity (a corporation or sole proprietorship) rather than her as an individual.
     Reply
    Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) was starred Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    12/14/09

    @FotoVerite: Exactly, I think it's more that sometimes one's gender will impact their design sensibility. When I was hunting for someone to develop my blog (I didn't end up hiring anyone, but I did go through the process) everyone I landed on was female, largely because I was going for a design that more female designers were providing. Not COULD provide, WERE providing.
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    12/14/09

    @Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd): A lot of freelancers do not, but you're right, she may have done a DBA.
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of lisas lisas
    12/14/09

    @Penny: No, very few people were aware. She did it because it improved her business so much. Happier clients, more repeat business, fewer revisions, etc, it's really really really depressing.
     Reply
    lisas was starred lisas was unstarred
    Image of rentkyo rentkyo
    12/14/09

    @Penny: I can't say for sure whether or not her clients would have paid for her work if they knew she was a woman, but I can say the field is certainly a boys' club. I work at a web design company as a receptionist and I have seen far more qualified women get passed up when promotions are possible. We have four partners one of whom is a woman and her job is mostly to oversee the money and operations of the client side of things. The feeling I've gotten from some of our clients is that they want women talking to them about the project, but they want men doing actual technical work and design.
     Reply
    Penny promoted this comment rentkyo was starred rentkyo was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    12/14/09

    @rentkyo: I agree that the web design field is disproportionately represented by men, but it does also have to do with the particular business/product as well. For example, I work in an industry and all of our product/web/graphic designers in house are female. Every last one.
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of spamanda spamanda
    12/14/09

    @Penny: I posted this above, but I was a graphic designer for many years. In my experience, there were mostly (if not ALL) women designers at the ground level, doing the majority of the work. The managers were almost always men (even when they weren't more qualified), and when we DID have male designers, they were immediately taught new skills -- like web design -- that the rest of us weren't "allowed" to be a part of.
     Reply
    spamanda was starred spamanda was unstarred
    Image of I, Zombie Normal I, Zombie Normal
    12/14/09

    In reply to "Taking A Man's Name Opened Up A New World:" Why A Blogger Hid Her Gender
    I'd like to take this opportunity to admit that I am not actually a zombie. I just used that moniker to open some doors, as being among the living was just not working out like I had planned.

    Plus, people were telling me that if I were a dead commenter, I would get more attention and really live my dream. Of course, zombies make less than even living female commenters, so it wasn't a completely fleshed-out plan.
     Reply
    I, Zombie Normal was starred I, Zombie Normal was unstarred
    Image of GreyEminence GreyEminence
    12/14/09

    @I, Zombie Normal: You sit on a throne of lies!
     Reply
    whynotshesaid promoted this comment GreyEminence was starred GreyEminence was unstarred
    Image of Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd)
    12/14/09

    @I, Zombie Normal: Hehe, "fleshed" out.

    I really and truly am a dictatrix, but I'm not as benevolent as advertised. Sorry.
     Reply
    Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) was starred Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) was unstarred
    Image of whynotshesaid whynotshesaid
    12/14/09

    @GreyEminence: You smell of beef and cheese!
     Reply
    whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred
    Image of That_little_attention_whore That_little_attention_whore
    10:17 AM

    @I, Zombie Normal: I am actually not really an attention whore. but the dog in profile pic is. so I have assumed a dog's identity to get the attention I so crave. wait....maybe that makes me an attention whore after all. carry on.
     Reply
    That_little_attention_whore was starred That_little_attention_whore was unstarred
    Image of voteforme voteforme
    11/16/09

    In reply to The "Glamor" Of Prostitution And The Outing Of Belle De Jour
    People need to recognize the difference between personal choice and the public good. The likes of Magnanti (and Sasha Gray, if we care to discuss all sex work) present these stories as being about things that they simply like to do...or so they have convinced themselves. I am not sold of the idea that they're not merely justifying their chosen occupations. But these individual women are entirely beside the point. The sex industry has nothing to do with the welfare or empowerment of women. #belledejour
     Reply
    clevernamehere promoted this comment voteforme was starred voteforme was unstarred
    Image of EmpressZombie EmpressZombie
    11/16/09

    In reply to The "Glamor" Of Prostitution And The Outing Of Belle De Jour
    I am not really for if it doesn't harm and if the woman is not coerced, then it's ok line of thinking. It's still an unequal relationship between man and woman. And I don't think it helps men either. Do former prostitutes (uncoerced) feel comfortable around men? Does Belle de Jour still think about men in the same way before she became a prostitute? I think it's harmful for relationships between men and women.

    Maybe one day when men and women are more equal, it will be more balanced, but that's not the world at the moment. And yes, some people working in the industry are fine, but for the sake of those who aren't, I'm quite happy to make it illegal. I think someone who's forced into it is more important than one who's fine with it.

    There are so many women (I'm not talking about children here, totally different issue) who are forced into prostitution. Some aren't forced into prostitution, but there are still lots of men who go to prostitutes. It-s a massive global industry. These men DON'T care whether the woman is forced or not. It's not that they don't know. Everyone knows lots of women are trafficked. If even a number of men cared, there won't be as many trafficked women in the world. The fact that there are so many means the majority of men who visit prostitutes DON'T CARE. They will probably use the justifications used by the uncoerced.
    What does that do to the mental being of a person who doesn't care whether a woman is coerced or not? How do they treat womankind in general? So I don't feel it's not harmless when some people are not coerced and can choose.

    I hope someone can understand my very roundabout explanation. It's not something I can really express, just a sensation of wrongness. #belledejour
     Reply
    yvanehtnioj promoted this comment EmpressZombie was starred EmpressZombie was unstarred
    Image of BytheSea BytheSea
    11/16/09

    @EmpressZombie: that's why it's called acting. Pretty girls who command a high price don't get the johns who think they're forcing anyone to do anything. (No, I don't believe this blogger calmly made this choice because she liked having sex for money. No one does.) Aside from indulging a kink, men are paying for some degree of "girlfriend experience," a sense that the girl is enjoying it, and the girl is putting on that show. Shoud they see through it? I don't know. Men don't see things like that. They're paying for a service and part of that service is the acting. #belledejour
     Reply
    BytheSea was starred BytheSea was unstarred
    Image of AlexaD AlexaD
    11/16/09

    In reply to The "Glamor" Of Prostitution And The Outing Of Belle De Jour
    @Algren Perhaps you just weren't able to manage your time in the job appropriately, given the nature of your comments. As someone who's been working for almost two years now, I don't suffer from any of the issues you claim to.

    And I absolutely agree with not using the phrase "selling your body" with respect to prostitutes. We sell a service, period. When I leave a client, I take my body, and my mind, with me. #belledejour
     Reply
    Her Grace promoted this comment AlexaD was starred AlexaD was unstarred
    Image of Algren Algren
    11/16/09

    In reply to The "Glamor" Of Prostitution And The Outing Of Belle De Jour
    "Now that she's out in the open, Magnanti could point out that her writing doesn't "glamorize" prostitution — it merely reveals that for some women, sex work can have big payoffs and manageable risks." I'm sorry, but this makes me angry. As a former $500 call-girl from Chicago, I would beg to differ about the 'manageable risks'. Just because the clients wear white collar does not mean they without danger. And there is always the threat of being busted by cops hiding in another room watching you on a video screen. Most importantly, even now, 20 years later, I still have trouble trusting men. And there are other countless forms of residue from that life from something as small as not wanting to wear sexy lingerie for my boyfriend because it feels like being with a trick to over-reacting in terrible ways when a man I don't know touches me even in the most casual manner. Wounds come from in all shapes and sizes and if this woman was able to move on without any then I am impressed. However, just because she does not share any darker stories, does not mean that they didn't happen. The woman is selling a book and a blog. Prostitution is never glamorous! It's hard work, dirty work, often sad work, sometimes erotic work but it is work and it's rarely pretty no matter how much you are paid to do it. #belledejour
     Reply
    Algren was starred Algren was unstarred
    Image of quesadillaap quesadillaap
    11/16/09

    In reply to The "Glamor" Of Prostitution And The Outing Of Belle De Jour
    I feel like the problem is that places like Las Vegas, where men expect sex, they don't question if there is a difference between women like this, and women who have been brought there against their will. They don't ask if the girl is a scientist making some extra money and enjoys her work, or an under aged child being held against their will. #belledejour
     Reply
    boxspelunker promoted this comment quesadillaap was starred quesadillaap was unstarred
    Image of LazyHippo LazyHippo
    11/16/09

    In reply to The "Glamor" Of Prostitution And The Outing Of Belle De Jour
    I don't blame her for working as a call girl, or making her identity public. I do, however, blame her for Billie Piper. #belledejour
     Reply
    Her Grace promoted this comment LazyHippo was starred LazyHippo was unstarred
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