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Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive

John McCain Plans To Win The "Real" America After You Godless Commies Are Locked Up
Revealed: How To Scare A Republican, Bore A Democrat
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Scout
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
what is this "sex' of which you speak

*perplexed*
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Snowbunny
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
You aren't a teen having sex if you're 21 years old. Then you're a 20-something having sex.
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alouette
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
This post reminds me: I must go make my annual checkup appointment at Planned Parenthood! And then thank them for providing it to me since I was 17.
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lynxwings
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
It's impossible to teach teenagers that premarital sex is a bad, dirty, shameful thing without teaching them that all sex is a bad, dirty, shameful thing. If anything is going to cause a public health problem, it's that, because people who think that sex is a bad, dirty, shameful thing are much more likely to be too ashamed of themselves to buy condoms. Buying condoms is admitting that you're having sex.
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Snowbunny
12/30/08

@lynxwings: I haven't ever had to buy condoms though, they give them out to the 14-24 crowd.

And the best way I've heard of teaching kids not to have sex is to have their parents talk about how much THEY like having sex. Then they'll be super grossed out by the idea and ever time they start getting freaky they'll imagine their parents and BAM! Instant boner control. Once they're mature enough to accept the fact that their parents had a sex life and seperate their own they're mature enough to have sex.
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lynxwings
12/30/08

@Snowbunny: Where do you get free condoms in high school? I always bought mine until I got to college.

Of course, I went to Catholic school.
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Snowbunny
12/30/08

@lynxwings: Pridefest (in Milwaukee). I go every year for the gay-boy underwear rave and free condoms.
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PilgrimSoul
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
"I believe marriage is an institution between two unwilling teenagers..."
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bluebears
12/30/08

@PilgrimSoul: if whats his name, Palin baby daddy, marries her i will die of shock. unless its 2012 and Palin is running for the nomination.
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Scout
12/30/08

@PilgrimSoul: drae I say "I believe marriage is an institution between two unwilling people, regardless of age"

I know this is only my opinion but I never understood how it ended up that a financial agreement (aka: marriage) ended up having all these romantic connotations. Marriage was created and implemented as a "security agreement" and "child-bearing contract" not "love til death do us part"

But I digress
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BearDownCBears
12/30/08

@Scout: Just because an institution starts off as one thing doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be appended.
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Scout
12/30/08

@BearDownCBears: i'm grumbling about marriage because I, personally, do not believe in it - just stating an opinion not attempting to enter a discourse is appendages : )

btw

+ Watch video

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Grim Reaper of the Forest
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
I feel like the whole abstinence thing needs a update. I'd like to see sex ed that says sex when you are 12-14 might not be the best thing, sex when you are 15-18 might be fun but teenage boys can be assholes and are generally bad in bed, so if you are not ready, you're not missing much, and sex from 18 until you get married at age 30 should be encouraged.
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badmutha
12/30/08

@treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest: Heehee! I got married at 30!
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WaltzingMatilda
12/30/08

@treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest: I like where you are going with this.
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Crabby Cakes
12/30/08

@treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest: Yes, especially to the "teenage boys can be assholes." I know not all are, but those won't be the ones pressuring you to have sex. Chances are, teenage asshole is NOT going to "the one" and he WILL leave you broken-hearted, confused and in turmoil.

PS- those teenage asshole-types will leave you broken-hearted and in turmoil whether you sleep with them or not.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/30/08

@treecut...Grim Reaper of the forest: I would totally sign up for this class.
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sumerfish
12/30/08

@Crabby Cakes wants some Dance Biscuits.: Teenage girls can also be assholes, and teenage boys can be not ready. Real talk. But they are easily convinced, especially if the persuader has boobs.
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
12/31/08

@sumerfish: @FrannyG: Oh, I agree, I was just aiming that impromptu sex ed curriculum at the young ladies. For boys, it would read that teenage girls can be jerks and might dump you two weeks later for that hot soccer player in English class.
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SarahMC
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
Also, I used to get very very anxious and pray aggressively after I'd have sex with my boyfriend (as a 20 year old!!) in college. I'd want to do it but thought it was a sin, then I'd do it and feel horribly guilty about it. Yeah, real great pathology to overcome.
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badmutha
12/30/08

@SarahMC: This is a common occurence, more common than you can even imagine. It is funny that you thought you were the only one.
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SarahMC
12/30/08

@badmutha: I didn't think I was the only one but I was super paranoid that I'd go to hell for the sin of premarital sex and even more upset because my boyfriend was (and is - we're still together) an atheist and I just KNEW he'd be in hell.
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SarahMC
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
How is it a good thing that teens who are GOING to have sex view safe sex as bad?!
Oh, I know, because when they eventually break their stupid purity promises, they'll get the punishment they so richly deserve for being naughty.
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
My mom raised me with a "sex is something you wait to do with someone you love, don't ever feel like you have to give someone a blowjob, make sure you've really talked it out" approach....but when I told her I'd had sex and wanted to marry my boyfriend she said "What, am I supposed to be glad you're not sleeping around and getting VDs?"

So...um... maybe pick an approach and stick with it?
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badmutha
12/30/08

@Mkp-hearts-NYC: Parenting is never easy. And she is your Mom, so she has to give you some shit, right? Just kidding.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/30/08

@Mkp-hearts-NYC: I was looking for my Cipro prescription yesterday for the UTI I currently have and my mother looked at me and said, "You had sex with him already?? You've been on, like, 4 dates! No wonder you have slept with 800 people!"

I told her that 800 people was not even a rational number, and one that is reserved for people in sex work mostly. So she sighed and said, "Fine. 100 people." I assured her that is wasn't even half of that, but thanks for calling me a slut, Mom!
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
12/30/08

@TheVaginaWig: haahahaha....love it.

Oh moms.
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badmutha
12/30/08

@TheVaginaWig: WHAT!? oh for pete's sake.
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Crabby Cakes
12/30/08

@Mkp-hearts-NYC: My mom found out I was having sex BECAUSE I got a VD, (I kept saying STD and she didn't know what that was,) and I wasn't sleeping around, my ex may or may not have cheated and he may or may not have known he even had HPV, but whatever. My mom was uber-supportive and awesome, so thank god for that.
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KathrynwithaY loves Joan Collins
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
Yeah...the whole guilt and hellfire stuff made me give up being Catholic. I took up sex instead.
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vamusical
12/30/08

@KathrynwithaY loves Joan Collins: Try Lutheranism, it's like Catholic Lite! My first hookup was in a sleeping bag at a church lock-in, and our youth group's "sex talk" one sunday basically consisted of our pastor telling us that sex was special, not to take it lightly, and be smart about it. Works for me!
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badmutha
12/30/08

@KathrynwithaY loves Joan Collins: Clearly you have never been around Southern Baptists. At Baylor, the largest Baptist university in the world, girls are expelled if they turn up pregnant, and they can not reapply to get back in. No shit, true story.
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JinxyMcDeath
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
I lost my virginity in my early/mid 20's and I was the ONLY virgin that all my friends knew at that time. That includes so-called "conservatives." I didn't have sex for multiple reasons but the two main ones were:

1. Self-respect. I had dated anyone long enough to believe that they weren't going to dump me the next day.

2. Fear of STDs. A close family member of mine died of AIDS when I was a teenager. Watching someone you love die of AIDS is the biggest contraceptive you can get. My last boyfriend tried to get me to have sex without condoms and all that came out in response was "My [relative] died of AIDS." And there was this silence and then "ok, condom it is"

And I'm as liberal as they come (except for my apparent "conservative" views on Israel which is weird...but whatever).
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Alys Brangwin can't stop the beat
12/30/08

@SarahMC: Exactly! Pregnancy it is!
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sarahxo
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
*ahem*

I'm uh

uhh

a teen who is Catholic and therefore doesn't believe in premarital sex.

I think.

Although I certainly believe in birth control!

Anyway, I wouldn't take a pledge, I mean, that kinda squicks me out. But I know that I would get guilty feelings if I had sex now.

So yeah, just my input.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/30/08

@sarahxo: Everyone is entitled to have their own beliefs, and I commend you for standing up for what you feel is right. However, as you get older, fall in love for the first time, and generally mature you may feel differently. And that's okay. The only thing I would ask is that you do read the facts, understand why you hold those beliefs, and if you can defend them and believe in them, then I say go for it!

But if you do decide to have sex before marriage, don't beat yourself up over it! Lots of us have done it, and we are still good people :)
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bluebears
12/30/08

@sarahxo: I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to wait until marriage because thats part of what you believe. But don't beat yourself up if it doesn't happen, life is long and twisty.
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emilyanne
12/30/08

@sarahxo: I grew up Catholic and I didn't lose my virginity until my late teens (19 to be precise) which was a lot later than my friends but I don't regret that.

As it turns out I had premarital sex and I'm glad about that because I didn't meet the man I loved until later and if I'd married the first one then we'd have been divorced by now.

Anyway what I really wanted to say is that you should certainly wait until it feels right and is with the right person and if that happens with marriage than great but don't feel guilty if it doesn't because the God I was raised with is a forgiving God and I don't believe he wastes his time condemning people for sex outside marriage.

The whole point of Catholicism is the possibility of redemption rather than endless guilt. In my opinion anyway.
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morninggloria
12/30/08

@sarahxo: There's nothing wrong with having beliefs and convictions. I used to share your beliefs, back when I was a teenager. You may continue to have them throughout your adult life, or you may change your mind. If you do change your mind, there's no shame in it.
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WaltzingMatilda
12/30/08

@sarahxo: Former Catholic teen here. The trick is - your belief in birth control (which I share wholeheartedly) goes completely against our faith. During Pre-Cana it took every ounce of self-control that I had not to point out that "Natural Family Planning" "manipulates" fertility (which is the problem with ye olde birth control!).

I feel so bad about the guilt you would feel, but I totally felt some of it up until I got married. Sucks. By the way - I'm going to hell. So your former Catholic teen is now kind of a dabbling in Catholicism late 20-something.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
12/30/08

@sarahxo: Here's what my mom told me and it served me well. Don't have sex until you know that after, if he/ she just walked away forever, you'd still be glad you did it. Have it when you would have no regrets. And double birth control (pill & condom) will help :)
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sarahxo
12/30/08

@BrutallyHonestBabes: That's really good advice, thanks.

:]
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WaltzingMatilda
12/30/08

@sarahxo: And btw - marital sex is pretty awesome. There's nothing wrong with waiting. I wouldn't let your guard down because you may feel weird about the belief that you hold. :)
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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
12/30/08

@sarahxo: I was you 10 years ago. Um, 15 year ago. Yeah. I keep forgetting I'm old. :)

This is overshare, but I ended up having engaged sex. After talking it over with my spiritual-director nun. I was almost 23. There was birth control. I felt good about all those decisions -- the waiting, the having, the BC. The not-pledge making because it's squicky. :)

The most important factor in my decision, which sounds like it's probably an important factor in yours, is that I knew my values and I knew my VALUE as a person. So I was content to make my decision in my own way in my own time, despite frequently feeling like the last virgin on the planet. (Which I now know was totally not true.)

I never really felt like any of my friends were making a bad decision or a wrong decision when they did decide to have premarital sex, as long as they used the same criteria I did -- they knew their values (which, while different from mine, were still good values) and their value as a person. The only ones I was uncomfortable with were the ones who were making the decision out of fear or pressure or something like that.
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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
12/30/08

@emilyanne: "The whole point of Catholicism is the possibility of redemption rather than endless guilt. In my opinion anyway. "

Word.
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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
12/30/08

@WaltzingMatilda(theOriginal): Meh. 80% of American Catholics use birth control and some percentage of those who aren't using it are actively attempting to get pregnant. You're pretty hard-pressed to find a priest who'll get up at you about it unless you've got a really conservative one. The US Church has basically quietly taken the position it's a personal decision. You could get the pill prescribed "for regularity" from the moment it was available at Catholic hospitals (until we started trying for a family, I got mine from a local Catholic hospital); in 1975, when my parents did pre-Cana, their priest told them, "You're not supposed to use birth control but you probably should. Everybody does. Confess it if you end up feeling bad about it."

We got the same NFP spiel in pre-Cana but I felt free to ignore it since I knew it was totally pro-forma.
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RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee)
12/30/08

@sarahxo: You gotta do what is best for you. I had "engaged" sex with my first husband and to me it made a difference because for the first time fooling around felt right enough to go all the way.
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bitchyolympian
12/30/08

@Eyebrows McGee: My priest, during our pre-marital counseling, said 'you both know the Church's teaching on children and birth control? Fine, we don't need to discuss that further.' I'm totally comfortable with accepting my Church's teaching on the sancitity of life and still choosing to use birth control in my daily life. I don't think God will condemn for choosing to not be a baby factory (I have 3 kids, btw)
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WaltzingMatilda
12/30/08

@bitchyolympian: I loved my priest in my pre-marital counseling (which in my diocese is awesomely kept separate from the pre-cana misery) when he pretty much noted that we shared the same address and just glossed over it and barely mentioned sex. I was so relieved. I was not going to lie to him and was thankful not to have to talk about it.
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Ultraprison!
12/31/08

@sarahxo: i read a really great interview with a priest where he said, "you know, it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that you can't use birth control if you're having nonmarital sex." then he went on to say people shouldn't be making babies with strangers and stuff.

i just want you to know that it's really tough being Catholic right now, and our religion is notorious for endless ways to sin. but if you have premarital sex, it's not wrong. sex is a beautiful thing. and it's fun. when the time is right, you'll know.
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bluebears
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
Was Dr. Healy smoking crack when she summed that study up? How is a sense of guilt about having sex a good thing? Likewise how are these kids safer because they are having "less" sex? safer=condom.
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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
12/30/08

@bluebears: Yeah, that article made me want to throw the magazine across the room. Which is totally a problem when reading things online.
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bluebears
12/30/08

@Eyebrows McGee: lift with your legs.
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BluebellaElliot
12/30/08

@bluebears: I know right! "Less" sex isn't safer, really, it only takes one time for something to go wrong. Condoms people! They should be free and handed out at all sorts of places.
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Crabby Cakes
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
Virginity pledges are ineffective because human beings are biologically wired to want to have sex.

Maybe it's the "biological" part that upsets conservatives, it sounds so science-y.
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Snowbunny
12/30/08

@Crabby Cakes wants some Dance Biscuits.: If God didn't want us to have sex he wouldn't make us want to have sex. Science!
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morninggloria
12/30/08

In reply to Teen Sex: Conservative Values Aren't Always Constructive
And! How can anyone be guilty about fucking? Safe fucking is wonderful and fun and feels awfully good.

Hey everyone! You know that really fun thing that you enjoy doing a lot that isn't hurting anyone? It's dirty and wrong. You should feel bad about it. Because God doesn't like fucking.

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badmutha
12/30/08

@morninggloria: Basically that is what they have been putting in kids heads. I have always been straight with my daughter and educated her about everything, but she goes to a Catholic school and her friends feel the same way: Sex before marriage is skanky.
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morninggloria
12/30/08

@badmutha: Sex before marriage is AWESOME. It's the same with what they tell you about drinking and drugs.
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bluebears
12/30/08

@morninggloria: @badmutha: can't we have a goddamn happy medium in this country? why is it all either paris hilton or purity rings?
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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
12/30/08

@morninggloria: God LOVES sex! It was in our marriage benediction. No lie! It's all prettied up in churchy language, but the Catholic benediction tells you to do it, do it lots, and have fun doing it. Which is also, incidentally, what our priest told us. :)
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badmutha
12/30/08

@bluebears: Exactly.
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morninggloria
12/30/08

@Eyebrows McGee: But you're talking very liberal Catholic god, not psycho hosebeast Christian god.
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morninggloria
12/30/08

@bluebears: A happy Medium, like Patricia Arquette on payday?
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bluebears
12/30/08

@morninggloria: exactly. would that really be so hard?
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HokeyPokey
12/30/08

@morninggloria: Catholic upbringing here which means being exposed to LOADS of sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll. Anyway, I decided I wasn't going to have sex in high school because everyone in HS seemed like a douchebag. But MAN, once I got into college, watch out. Sex = good times (for me anyway).
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rosasparks
12/30/08

@bluebears: The US is not a happy medium place. Most people can't handle happy mediums, as it challenges their beliefs, and makes people very uncomfortable.

Nuance is tricky, hell, pretty much anywhere.
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bluebears
12/30/08

@rosasparks: can't you let me have my naive hope? sigh....
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dirtybee
12/30/08

@HokeyPokey: I feel cheated - I had a Catholic upbringing - sex exposure, yes, but no drugs anywhere. I saw drugs for the first time waaaay too late in life.
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rosasparks
12/30/08

@bluebears: Ooooh, I'm so sorry...

But, seriously, we can't get anyone to come to the table on some of this stuff. God knows I wish we could. I don't want minisparks to have to deal with all this shit. She's a happy, masturbating little girl, who I hope will grow to be a happy, sexually curious & active with whomever girl and woman. I will not allow ANYONE to make her feel bad about any of it.
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Crabby Cakes
12/30/08

@Eyebrows McGee: Did the priest say it during the service, in front of all your friends and families? Did your husbands family audibly gasp when the priest suggested you should let God into your bedroom and start a dynasty?

Are you my SIL??
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