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tomatoheart
11/25/08

In reply to
Any doctor who has been trained to do a D&C (which pretty much all dr.s go through ob/gyn training in med school), can use that method as an abortion.

Many planned parenthood locations around the country have opened up their doors to medical student rotations to get trained on women's health and abortion training.
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AmberPulvillus
11/25/08

In reply to
I just took my best friend to have an abortion last week -- she was only 6 weeks in and neither of us had any qualms about terminating at that very early stage (I think there needs to be good medical reason past the 1st trimester, it's just where I personally draw the line).

However, I'm disturbed after reading this article because of the rough treatment of the women. I can't imagine why any woman should be screaming in pain. Now, having gotten an IUD (a form of birth control that is inserted in the uterus) without any pain meds and without having ever been pregnant (and hence having a tiny uterus and cervix), I've felt the painful pinch of the teneculum and cervical dialators, and though I cried and gasped, I was not writhing and screaming in agony. That seems to indicate unneeded roughness on the part of the doctors, and so it is VERY troubling to me. I'd hate to think that my friend suffered any of that...
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portia_sue
11/25/08

>AmberPulvillus<
She probably didn't, at that early stage. Mine was at 7 or 8 weeks, and it was nothing like that article described.

The more I think of it, the more I wonder if the hospital setting had something to do with it. Mine was at the local PP, which is tiny, and as I said earlier, there was a whole group of women doing it together.

I felt like everyone was in it together, and if one person got upset, everyone would just reach out to her a little. It was totally unexpected for me. I thought it would be more private, and at the time, I resented the fact that I wasn't by myself. But maybe it did me good to see other women going through the same thing.
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coochiemama
11/25/08

In reply to
Women screaming and writhing during their abortion? Really?

Mine was not that much more uncomfortable than a regular pelic exam. The worst part was the sucking sound of the machine. But intense pain? No. I want to call bullshit on this. Anyone?
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portia_sue
11/25/08

>coochiemama<
I already posted, but yes, bullshit.

Most of the women I was with (at a Planned Parenthood, it's a very communal experience, you all recover together in a little room) had had the opportunity to take Valium, which I couldn't because I had to drive home. And they were all fine. And I was fine, with no pain meds besides a Motrin.

Maybe they were emotionally in pain. I wasn't at the time, but I certainly have had a few moments since when I felt a little sad.
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CherriSpryte
11/25/08

In reply to
I wasn't quite aware of the pain involved in a medical abortion - namely the "metal teeth in the cervix" part. And, despite my zero knowledge of the medical profession, I'm sure there's gotta be a less painful way to do this.
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haricot
11/25/08

In reply to
I didn't think the vacuum method was supposed to hurt. These women are sedated and still screaming from the pain.

Scared the crap out of me.

Is this true?
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tomatoheart
11/25/08

@haricot: I wasn't sedated -- felt crampy, but not scream-worthy.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11/25/08

In reply to
Fascinating read. Am glad they included a pregnancy in there, too. As if it were any less horrifying for a med student. Just like I think it'd be fun to show pics of ripped perineums and carry jars of placenta at anti-abortion rallies to counter their gruesome fetus photos. Surgery ain't pretty, no matter what you're making right.
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J.D.Regent
11/25/08

@HeatherNumber1: loved how clearly the article made that point.
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SarahMC
11/25/08

In reply to
And half the anti-choice commenters are "relieved" that Lesley "saw the light" and chose not to become an abortion provider. FFS, these people are stupid. She made a practical decision based on a number of factors, not because she got squicked out by the procedure and suddenly opposes it.
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J.D.Regent
11/25/08

@SarahMC: yeah in fact when she had to scoop out all the POC was the time she was least upset. It seemed like the main issues were lifestyle ones of being an obgyn and also the shitty way residents were treated.
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haptotrope
11/25/08

In reply to
If babies had gills (or otherwise were not cute) this wouldn't even be an issue.
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SarahMC
11/25/08

@haptotrope: Newborns AREN'T cute, let alone tadpole lookin' fetuses. Blech.
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umamimama
11/25/08

@SarahMC: Unless you have a thing for Winston Churchill, in which case newborns are totally hot.
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Hana Maru
11/25/08

@umamimama: I've known some babies to look distinctly like Jerry Falwell
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J.D.Regent
11/25/08

In reply to
After reading that article the main thing I know for sure is that if I ever need an abortion and have the option to take the pill instead of having surgery, I'm taking it. Oh, and I'm never going to med school.
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MediocreFred
11/25/08

@J.D.Regent: From what I've heard a medical abortion can be pretty nasty, drawn out and painful. Heavy bleeding and serious cramps. Like you're laid up for days bleeding through heavy duty pads.

And they are only available before 10 weeks.
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J.D.Regent
11/25/08

@MediocreFred: i know. but did you read the article? A surgical abortion doesn't sound too fun either. Maybe if they could just knock me out...
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BiteMeMitchell!
11/25/08

@J.D.Regent: @MediocreFred: I had a surgical one that I was completely put under for. (This was 15 years ago, I don't think that's common practice anymore.) It's deeply unpleasant and painful afterwards, like the worst period cramps imaginable multiplied by 50. But from what I hear from friends etc, the medical ones ain't a whole bunch of laughs either. This is why it bugs the crap out of me so much that the anti-choice brigade spread this myth that there are feckless sluts out there using abortion as a form of contraception. Abortion - tricky to come by, immensely painful and debilitating and potentially dangerous. Let's have one a month!
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portia_sue
11/25/08

>Anointynointy<
I had an abortion without any medication at all, and it wasn't so bad. Usually they give you Valium or something to kind of smooth you out and help you not get nervous, but I couldn't do that because I didn't have a ride home. They inject your cervix with numbing meds, and dilate it, and that's really one of the worst feelings ever, but it's quick. The actual procedure feels like really bad cramps, and you're just totally aware of your body in a weird way, like you can feel the inside of your uterus (whic isn't numbed at all). And yes, for a few days later it is like really bad period cramps. But I would do it again just for the speed and the certainty of it. The abortions using pills seem so dragged out.
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Dita Dimoné
11/25/08

In reply to
Still, in a long-sleeve, black scoop-neck top, jeans, shiny black rain boots and a tan sweater vest tied lightly at her waist, she was a picture of elegance. Her chin-length blond-streaked hair was tied into a tiny pony tail, accenting her angular features.

The point. I do not see it.
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J.D.Regent
11/25/08

@Crunchy Stars: demystifying potential abortionists?
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DinnerBelle
11/25/08

@Crunchy Stars: Right? As much as I loved! and was totally intrigued the content of most of this article, I couldn't help but think that if this woman wasn't elegant and attractive, maybe she wouldn't have been shadowed, her choice of specialty wouldn't have mattered and this article wouldn't have been written.
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badmutha
11/25/08

@KittyConner: I think it is trying to normalize her and let people know she is not some kind of "other."
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hellosunshine
11/25/08

@Crunchy Stars: I'm just trying to figure out how she tied a sweater vest around her waist, seeing as how vests have no arms!
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SarahMC
11/25/08

In reply to
I'm really motherfucking sick of women who aren't able to have children, mourning the loss of potential adopted babies who've died b/c of abortion. Like other women are just walking wombs for them.
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SarahMC
11/25/08

In reply to
I just read the full article; it's very good. I also, stupidly, read some of the comments. It seems the vast majority of WaPo readers are anti-choice.
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Penny
11/25/08

@SarahMC: The article is SUPER good, I had to forward it to quite a few people.

I skipped the comments....
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SarahMC
11/25/08

@Archetype: It's shocking. You'd think there'd be SOME ardent pro-choicers commenting on the article. It's scary to realize how many fetus-worshipers are among us.
I'm sad Lesley chose not to pursue abortion as a specialty.
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Speeble
11/25/08

@SarahMC: Seriously read the Monday discussion too. The doctor featured responds to some of the questions posted by WaPo readers. That doctor is one classy lady.
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SarahMC
11/25/08

@Speeble: You're right, the discussion is a little more balanced, and thoughtful on the part of the commenters.
The one asked her to look the kid from Life Goes On in the eyes and tell him he shouldn't have been born, lol. Way to piss the point, idiot.
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I_b_meh
11/25/08

In reply to
It takes a special kind of person to stand up to a shit-storm of biblical proportions like the crazies can bring. Even as pro-choice as I am, I can't say that if I were a doctor I could put my family through it and risk my safety every day. I suck.
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MissyMcCLung
11/25/08

@I_b_hatin: I couldn't either. I am vehemently pro-choice, but would never personally choose an abortion and could never provide one.
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Penny
11/25/08

In reply to
Everyone, I HIGHLY recommend you read this article in full. It's crazy interesting.
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theysaidwhat
11/25/08

@Archetype: That really was an interesting read. And it explains so much about doctors!
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littlebunnyfoofoo
11/25/08

In reply to
But are they including in that term D&Cs which an OB/GYN must be able to perform due to certain types of miscarriages? Technically that is a type of abortion, right? Obviously, it's a good thing and a medical necessity, but I've heard the pro-life crazies often want to eliminate that procedure as well.
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NefariousNewt
11/25/08

@littlebunnyfoofoo: The fanatics don't care -- they see this issue as black and white. Look at the rhetoric during the campaign about a woman's health; do you honestly think that any of the fundies give a damned about what's best for the patient, a.k.a. the mother-to-be? No! Their whole mindset revolves around an unborn child, a child they will not give a damn about once it's born, so long as it is born. There's is the religion of death, acolytes of the Grim Reaper.
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PinkSoxHat
11/25/08

@NefariousNewt: Oh Newt, you forgot your quotation marks! Women's "health."
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NefariousNewt
11/25/08

@PinkSoxHat: Sorry... it's been so long since McCranky lost I'm beginning to forget.
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ItchykooParker
11/25/08

@littlebunnyfoofoo: Maybe a better term is "anti-choice". I am pro-life, and pro-choice.
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