@redqueenmeg: pesticides are lipophilic, so the amount dissolved in water will be infinitesimally smaller than the amount that can be found in fatty breast milk
But breast feeding reduces MY cancer risk! So I guess I should just pump, throw out my milk and give the baby formula? Hmmm, I suspect a Similac/Medela conspiracy!
Why does the person with the boobs have to change? It should be the farmer or whoever the hell thinks it's ok to spray poison all over our food. The boobs don't even need to come up in this conversation.
And if the mother doesn't breast-feed, those toxic dioxins stay in her own body, contributing to a higher risk of breast cancer among women who have never nursed.
@GirlFailer: Lol! Luckily, fasting also reduces dioxins without risk to others (except then in the sanitation water, of course -- this stuff never really goes away).
Maybe we need to lay off the pesticides not the boobs. Also, when is the series of studies proving that men ruin their children with every choice they make? *tapping toe* I'm waiting....
I worked at a children's museum for a while, and we had a little fake grocery store the kids could pretend to shop in. In it was a can of baby formula. A woman came up to me with her son one day, holding the formula, and pointed at me and told him "THIS is the kind of person who will TRICK you into putting HARSH ARTIFICIAL CHEMICALS like THIS into YOUR body and other children's bodies" and then asked me why I INSISTED on having things like that in the museum.
I mean there were so many things wrong with this that i didnt even know where to start but i just told her
"Actually my sister was born lactose intolerant, and without 'Harsh Chemicals' like that she would have died.
I always cringe when people hate on the LLL. It kind of bothers me all the articles about the crazies are called "La Leche League" when they freakin' have nothing to do with that particular story. (I think some people don't even know they are an actual organisation and just use the term as a vaugue mean name.)
In my experience they as a group are very helpful to women who want to breastfeed and weren't judgey at all. They were the only ones who offered any help when my first son had tongue tie and I will be forever grateful to them. Like it or not the medical profession is not very well trained in breastfeeding or problems which arise for women and babies while breastfeeding and the LLL really helps a lot of people.
Anyway, end rant. I'm not a member or anything. I just know the women I met from the LLL were lovely people who really just want to help other people who want to breastfeed. (They were really nice to people wanting help weaning due to work too.)
I think their group is really needed. Like I said, the medical profession SUCKS on this issue.
@applejuice: As I mentioned downthread, my mother was a La Leche League member and has told me many stories of helping women who did not think they could breastfeed to be able to do so. I always grew up with nothing but good associations with La Leche League as a result. As long as their work is being done in a non-judgmental way (which I believe it is), I think it is good and necessary work to do.
I have a one month old who is breastfeeding, and that theory kinda makes me feel like crap. I've been totally hellbent on breastfeeding my child, and it isn't going so well. My breasts have never produced enough for him, and it was worsened by him having jaundice, so I've had to supplement him with a bottle from the beginning. Now he breastfeeds several times a day but only for five minutes at a time, and gets much more satisfaction from the bottle. I have been struggling with feelings of guilt and well, sadness, about this from the beginning. It's totally irrational, but I feel like a terrible mother because I can't breastfeed him exclusively. My pediatrician hasn't helped becuase she wants me to forego the bottle and spend every waking moment 'coaching' my breasts into producing more by feeding him constantly and using a pump. Oh, and throwing away his pacifier. I'm already back at work and just don't have time for this. So yeah. Feeling kinda like a failure. I was already feeling pretty shitty about the whole situation, but to think of it as my boobs are mourning the death of my child...well that just makes me want to cry.
@kaiwhakamarie: Are you and I having the same life? I was dead set on breastfeeding, but my baby doesn't latch well and my supply is pitiful so we've been breastfeeding, bottle feeding, and pumping.
One thing I can say is that wanting to breastfeed and not being able to makes you feel like complete shit. You can know that it isn't your fault, but somehow I've never felt like more of a failure. I'm still pumping, my breasts are still receiving that stimulation, but does it add to depression? Hell, yes. That study is total crap to me, their conclusions are suspect at best.
And on a personal note, I would urge you to find a new pediatrician. I've been pretty lucky in that I have totally understanding lactation consultants who are totally not judging and have fed my baby formula without saying anything nasty. My pediatrician and OB have been very encouraging and tell me just to do what I can. My life is much better because of that.
@jleigh: I have been considering making the jump to a new pediatrician. She's great in all other areas, and she isn't judgy at all, but she keeps making gentle suggestions over and over of things I need to do to get him off formula. He's in the 90th percentile and has a pound and a half this past month so she's even gone so far as to say that the formula is causing me to overfeed him and he may become overweight if I don't switch exclusively to the breast. I mean, seriously? He was almost 10 lbs when he was born, so I mean, no surprises there.
It is amazing how crappy you do feel when you can't successfully breastfeed. Hell, the term 'successful' is relative. My husband keeps saying that I'm able to breastfeed him at all means it IS successful and I shouldn't be so hard on myself. Easier said than done. And studies like that do NOT help.
More proof that the "science" of evolutionary psychology is just another tool to validate the superiority of frightened masculinity and make sure women can never hope to meet the numerous contradictory expectations heaped on them.
stacyinbean promoted this comment
Edited by Mireille is German for the Bart, the. at 08/28/09 3:47 PM
Mireille is German for the Bart, the. was starred
Mireille is German for the Bart, the. was unstarred
I totally came up with this hypothesis on my own a couple of years ago! But without all the judgey bits this guy added. It explains in part why ovulation is repressed while breastfeeding (which is not 100%). So if you bottle feed your body thinks your baby died and tries to get pregnant again sooner. That makes sense.
However - I'm not sure I buy the correlation between bottlefeeding and depression, and certainly not that it is a causal relationship. For many moms bottle is best, due to a variety of circumstances.
Thank God we have people to tell us what to do with our bodies and what bad people we are if we don't agree. I'm not sure whether or not I'll breast feed when I have a baby, I was planning on making a decision based on my life circumstances and health in order to do what was best for my baby and myself, but now that I know babies DIE (from diseases! And from your mind going to crazy town!) without breast milk, the choice has been made for me. Thanks Scientific American!
The Breastfeeding Brigade is really starting to irritate me. My mother is a Type 1 diabetic, and both my sister and I were bottle-fed because of it. ALL THREE of us are FINE. Some women can't or won't breast-feed. Shouldn't that be treated as a reproductive choice as well?
@Ruby_de_la_Booby: It doesn't normally. They used to tell women this, but nowadays they say it is okay for women with diabetes to breastfeed (in fact, it has been shown to help many women's insulin levels and also help prevent diabetes in their children). Like so many other things understanding of this area has grown in leaps and bounds in recent years.
@Ruby_de_la_Booby: What applejuice said below. I'm not clear on the details, but I know bottle-feeding was a personal choice she made because of her diabetes. She might have been counseled by her OBGYN to go for bottle-feeding as well, since this was back in '87.
I am currently breastfeeding, and it is HARD. It's such a leap of faith, not knowing when your milk will come in, not knowing how many ounces the baby is actually getting, worried about keeping up your supply. The whole "breast is best" idea sets you up to think, it's natural, it will be second nature, it will be easy. I have wept/screamed/freaked all over breastfeeding. My body might not have thought my baby was dead, but I'm sure it has hated me for all the stress.
Is your baby fed? Is your baby thriving? Is your baby loved? These are the question that matter.
@Ruby_de_la_Booby: Absolutely. And, as another current breastfeeder, I hate the propaganda that the La Leche League puts out saying that "if it hurts, you're doing it wrong". EVERY SINGLE PERSON I've spoken to who has breastfed their babies all said that it hurt to varying degrees for the first 2-8 weeks. If I'd known that a couple months ago, I could have saved myself a lot of grief and tears! Due to the propaganda, I thought I was defective in some way. And that's oh so helpful!
I really think that my new crusade is to run counter to the whole "it's natural and your body knows what to do and so will you!" school of thought to let other women know that yes, it is natural but it takes practice and time and it's hard and tiring and somewhat painful at times. But it gets better and you get used to it and you and the baby get better at it.
@ZenScout: I tell this to everyone I know who is new to breastfeeding! I think knowing that it is hard at the start is and it gets better is so valuable. Seriously. That alone makes it easier the second or third time around. Just knowing that it is normal.
Also, they always tell mothers here in the UK that breastfeeding is not established for 6-8 weeks. I don't think most people get the total hang of it until that time or after. I always think what a shame it is in the US that most women have had to go back to work by the time it is getting easier.
(And, FWIW, LLL was helpful to me with my first baby whereas the medical people (the midwives and doctors) were AWFUL. My first two son's had toungue ties and the doctors and midwives not only had bad advice, they wouldn't listen to me at all when I kept telling them there was a problem. The LLL people I talked to weren't pushy at all, acknowledged that breastfeeding is hard at first and actually knew what they were talking about in regards to breastfeeding. And they pointed me in the right direction for a solution. I'm not sure if you've actually had first hand experience with them or are just going by the generalizations that people make - I'm just saying - in my own experience they had a much more realistic view of breastfeeding than the medical profession - that ran parralell to what you are saying. :) )
09/22/09
09/23/09
09/23/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/23/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
*brought to you by GirlyQ for a better world*
09/22/09
Another article, another day, another reminder you're fucked if you do, and you're fucked if you don't.
I second your remarks and would just to remind everyone to wear clean underwear.
09/22/09
09/22/09
*sigh*
Round - GirlFailer
09/22/09
08/29/09
I mean there were so many things wrong with this that i didnt even know where to start but i just told her
"Actually my sister was born lactose intolerant, and without 'Harsh Chemicals' like that she would have died.
08/28/09
In my experience they as a group are very helpful to women who want to breastfeed and weren't judgey at all. They were the only ones who offered any help when my first son had tongue tie and I will be forever grateful to them. Like it or not the medical profession is not very well trained in breastfeeding or problems which arise for women and babies while breastfeeding and the LLL really helps a lot of people.
Anyway, end rant. I'm not a member or anything. I just know the women I met from the LLL were lovely people who really just want to help other people who want to breastfeed. (They were really nice to people wanting help weaning due to work too.)
I think their group is really needed. Like I said, the medical profession SUCKS on this issue.
08/28/09
08/28/09
08/28/09
08/28/09
I think I just needed to rant about that.
08/28/09
One thing I can say is that wanting to breastfeed and not being able to makes you feel like complete shit. You can know that it isn't your fault, but somehow I've never felt like more of a failure. I'm still pumping, my breasts are still receiving that stimulation, but does it add to depression? Hell, yes. That study is total crap to me, their conclusions are suspect at best.
And on a personal note, I would urge you to find a new pediatrician. I've been pretty lucky in that I have totally understanding lactation consultants who are totally not judging and have fed my baby formula without saying anything nasty. My pediatrician and OB have been very encouraging and tell me just to do what I can. My life is much better because of that.
08/28/09
It is amazing how crappy you do feel when you can't successfully breastfeed. Hell, the term 'successful' is relative. My husband keeps saying that I'm able to breastfeed him at all means it IS successful and I shouldn't be so hard on myself. Easier said than done. And studies like that do NOT help.
08/28/09
08/28/09
However - I'm not sure I buy the correlation between bottlefeeding and depression, and certainly not that it is a causal relationship. For many moms bottle is best, due to a variety of circumstances.
08/28/09
08/28/09
08/28/09
08/28/09
Here are a few sources:
[breastfeeding.about.com]
[www.breastfeed.com]
Some sources at Kellymom: [www.home.kellymom.net]
08/28/09
08/28/09
Is your baby fed? Is your baby thriving? Is your baby loved? These are the question that matter.
08/28/09
I really think that my new crusade is to run counter to the whole "it's natural and your body knows what to do and so will you!" school of thought to let other women know that yes, it is natural but it takes practice and time and it's hard and tiring and somewhat painful at times. But it gets better and you get used to it and you and the baby get better at it.
08/28/09
Also, they always tell mothers here in the UK that breastfeeding is not established for 6-8 weeks. I don't think most people get the total hang of it until that time or after. I always think what a shame it is in the US that most women have had to go back to work by the time it is getting easier.
(And, FWIW, LLL was helpful to me with my first baby whereas the medical people (the midwives and doctors) were AWFUL. My first two son's had toungue ties and the doctors and midwives not only had bad advice, they wouldn't listen to me at all when I kept telling them there was a problem. The LLL people I talked to weren't pushy at all, acknowledged that breastfeeding is hard at first and actually knew what they were talking about in regards to breastfeeding. And they pointed me in the right direction for a solution. I'm not sure if you've actually had first hand experience with them or are just going by the generalizations that people make - I'm just saying - in my own experience they had a much more realistic view of breastfeeding than the medical profession - that ran parralell to what you are saying. :) )