I work as a therapist in a domestic violence center/shelter. You hear this over and over again. The average woman will leave her batterer 7 times before she leaves for good. And, actually, she is in more danger when she leaves him. That is when lethality is the highest, because the batterer feels his control is slipping. We have participants that come to our center, only to leave our services after a few weeks or months because they have returned to their abuser. And then, a year later, they return to try again. It is not an easy process, and DV is about power and control. The batterer has the power and control over the victim, and he knows how to manipulate her in order to maintain that power and control.
We cannot judge Rhianna. The only thing that can be done is to offer her support, resources, and education, and let her know that you (not us, exactly, but the people in her life) are there when she is ready to leave. But it is ultimately her decision. And she will not leave until she is really, truly ready to.
While I'm sad for her, I'm even more sad that this issue has been made so public, and people that do not understand anything about the dynamics of an abusive relationship will judge her for actions that many, many women have taken before her.
@Laines: Excuse me? Where exactly in this thread did I attack you, or say anything about your choices regarding your siblings?
I don't think I will "find another audience." I thought I was participating in a thoughtful discussion about domestic violence and the psychological realities of the cycle of abuse.
But thanks for making it seem like I am gung-ho about Rihanna returning to Chris Brown, or any other woman going back to her abuser, just because I refuse to believe that cutting them off entirely is the best way to encourage them to leave.
@BrightonShiny: You can say that b/c you've never been there.
Most of the time abuse doesn't start with the hitting. It starts with breaking down your sense of self until you feel like you *deserve* the hitting, or the kicking, or the rape, or whatever it is the abuser does to you.
This is another case of privilege speaking first. It's so easy to say, 'I'd leave.' But find a woman you respect who you know to have been abused, and see what she says about it.
For me, I like to believe I'd leave if I got hit. But my sense of self worth can be fragile, and I know damn well that it probably wouldn't take much to make me believe I deserved it.
@snarkhunting: I would never say that I'm 'grateful' for what I went through, but in some ways I don't regret the experience of being abused because it caused me to be compassionate and have insight when it comes to other women who go through this stuff. Before I met my ex I was saying the same stuff, that if you go back after the first time, you deserve what you get, etc.
If you read the research and literature on domestic abuse you will see that it is carefully done over a period of time, so that the victim is completely blindsided and brainwashed and by the time they realize how fucked up the situation is, they have no real control over their own choices. It isn't as simple as somebody flying off the handle and hitting you one day in an argument - that is a cut and dry instance of 'so and so snapped' and is much easier to have perspective on. But when it begins gradually, starting with comments here and there, financial manipulations, sexual manipulations, slow isolation, a gradual escalation in violence and abuse...it's like the old saying 'if you throw a frog in boiling water he'll jump out, but if you put him in a pot and slowly heat it to boiling he'll let himself get cooked'. That's exactly how it is.
My best friend's sister lived in a domestic violence household for over 10 years. She married at 16 and had three kids by the time she was 21. Her husband beat the crap out of her. She showed up for Jess' wedding with two black eyes. Jess offered her money, a place to stay, found her shelters, and offered her any and all resources at her disposal to get her out, but she always went back. Why? Because 'I love him'. Jess finally got ready to throw in the towel for good and cut her out completely, and I convinced her not to. After what I'd been through, I had enough insight to understand the situation. And it's lucky that Jess didn't give up on her, because her sister actually got up the guts to leave the guy last year. And she hasn't been anywhere near him ever since. Sure, it took her 10 years, but she did it. And she's lucky that when she did, Jess was there for her, or she might never have done it.
i'm so saddened by rihanna going back to him. is it possible he can change? yeah, but if i were her, i wouldn't stick around to find out. also, three weeks is hardly enough time to change anyone. the fact that things have gone back to normal for them just proves that this whole remorseful act from chris is premature. also, enough about her being a young girl. i'm 23 and i know this shit is fucked. if she's old enough to make this decision, she's old enough to know that it's fucked. the problem isn't her age, it's that she's deluded. and like too many people, her threshhold for bullshit it way too high.
Lil Bow Wow, are you serious? I knoew couples that after 30, 40, 50 years of marriage, NEVER hit each other. If they can do that, Chris Brown can do it. You say he's human? Well most REAL men I know wouldn't act like that.
The Rihanna news suddenly made me hear Brenda Lee singing the lyrics to one of the most pernicious "love" songs of all time. "You always hurt the one you love The one you shouldn't hurt at all You always take the sweetest rose And crush it till the petals fall You always break the kindest heart With a hasty word you can't recall So If I broke your heart last night It's because I love you most of all"
@DontFearTheReaper: Survivors of DV here and elsewhere talk about how fucking HARD it is to leave. The entire culture in which we live supports "standing by your man"--just look at the outpouring of support for Chris Brown from women.
I sincerely hope that if you ever have a daughter or sister or young friend who ever struggles with abuse, you won't say to her, "You're an idiot for going back to him, and I will have no sympathy for you when he hits you again." Faced with that attitude, where will she go when he does?
Smart, lovely, successful women of my acquaintance have struggled to leave their abusers in part b/c of the culture of shame that surrounds them. Only "dumb" women get beaten, so clearly they must be dumb. It's a disgusting myth, and somehow I feel like your comment perpetuates it.
Of course, I've always been reasonably pretty and very shy, and I've kissed exactly 0 (and no girls, either), so, you know, I am inclined to THANK Blake Lively for owning up to not having kissed lots of guys.
@Laulau: I am conflicted. A cousin of my mom's stayed with us a bit when I was a kid, b/c her husband had been beating her. (Her father, my great-uncle, apparently beat the crap out of the husband when he found out.) But he got help, and learned that the abuse he saw growing up was not something he wanted to continue, and they've been together ever since.
However, I feel like banking on those rare success stories is incredibly dangerous. If the guy can get help and become a decent man, great. But how many of them can't or won't? And, as PilgrimSoul said, it isn't like CB was acting terrifically remorseful. So, you know, I have my doubts.
I'm trying not to be angry with Rihanna. Disappointed, yes. But sympathetic.
@PrettyPrettyPrincess: What annoys me is that your earlier comment about her loving and hating the fame made me think, "Hm. I bet I could add an interesting discussion of how Britney represents a modern version of female poetics to my dissertation introduction when I revise it for a book."
I...can't decide which part of my brain is to blame for this. Is it the academic or the ... I'm not sure I can call it "Britney fan" side, b/c I'm not a fan, exactly. "Britney sympathizing" side of my brain?
@snarkhunting: Exactly, the Briney sympathizing side. Mine is busy second-guessing everything. Somehow the Southpark ep, where they show her being hunted by everyone, kind of expressed it for me.
02/28/09
We cannot judge Rhianna. The only thing that can be done is to offer her support, resources, and education, and let her know that you (not us, exactly, but the people in her life) are there when she is ready to leave. But it is ultimately her decision. And she will not leave until she is really, truly ready to.
While I'm sad for her, I'm even more sad that this issue has been made so public, and people that do not understand anything about the dynamics of an abusive relationship will judge her for actions that many, many women have taken before her.
02/28/09
I don't think I will "find another audience." I thought I was participating in a thoughtful discussion about domestic violence and the psychological realities of the cycle of abuse.
But thanks for making it seem like I am gung-ho about Rihanna returning to Chris Brown, or any other woman going back to her abuser, just because I refuse to believe that cutting them off entirely is the best way to encourage them to leave.
02/28/09
And I'm glad, for what it's worth, that you convinced your friend NOT to throw in the towel on her sister.
02/28/09
Best. Casting. EVER!
02/28/09
Most of the time abuse doesn't start with the hitting. It starts with breaking down your sense of self until you feel like you *deserve* the hitting, or the kicking, or the rape, or whatever it is the abuser does to you.
This is another case of privilege speaking first. It's so easy to say, 'I'd leave.' But find a woman you respect who you know to have been abused, and see what she says about it.
For me, I like to believe I'd leave if I got hit. But my sense of self worth can be fragile, and I know damn well that it probably wouldn't take much to make me believe I deserved it.
02/28/09
If you read the research and literature on domestic abuse you will see that it is carefully done over a period of time, so that the victim is completely blindsided and brainwashed and by the time they realize how fucked up the situation is, they have no real control over their own choices. It isn't as simple as somebody flying off the handle and hitting you one day in an argument - that is a cut and dry instance of 'so and so snapped' and is much easier to have perspective on. But when it begins gradually, starting with comments here and there, financial manipulations, sexual manipulations, slow isolation, a gradual escalation in violence and abuse...it's like the old saying 'if you throw a frog in boiling water he'll jump out, but if you put him in a pot and slowly heat it to boiling he'll let himself get cooked'. That's exactly how it is.
My best friend's sister lived in a domestic violence household for over 10 years. She married at 16 and had three kids by the time she was 21. Her husband beat the crap out of her. She showed up for Jess' wedding with two black eyes. Jess offered her money, a place to stay, found her shelters, and offered her any and all resources at her disposal to get her out, but she always went back. Why? Because 'I love him'. Jess finally got ready to throw in the towel for good and cut her out completely, and I convinced her not to. After what I'd been through, I had enough insight to understand the situation. And it's lucky that Jess didn't give up on her, because her sister actually got up the guts to leave the guy last year. And she hasn't been anywhere near him ever since. Sure, it took her 10 years, but she did it. And she's lucky that when she did, Jess was there for her, or she might never have done it.
I have talked entirely too much on this thread!
02/28/09
02/28/09
02/28/09
02/28/09
"You always hurt the one you love
The one you shouldn't hurt at all
You always take the sweetest rose
And crush it till the petals fall
You always break the kindest heart
With a hasty word you can't recall
So If I broke your heart last night
It's because I love you most of all"
02/28/09
I sincerely hope that if you ever have a daughter or sister or young friend who ever struggles with abuse, you won't say to her, "You're an idiot for going back to him, and I will have no sympathy for you when he hits you again." Faced with that attitude, where will she go when he does?
Smart, lovely, successful women of my acquaintance have struggled to leave their abusers in part b/c of the culture of shame that surrounds them. Only "dumb" women get beaten, so clearly they must be dumb. It's a disgusting myth, and somehow I feel like your comment perpetuates it.
02/28/09
02/28/09
02/28/09
02/28/09
Of course, I've always been reasonably pretty and very shy, and I've kissed exactly 0 (and no girls, either), so, you know, I am inclined to THANK Blake Lively for owning up to not having kissed lots of guys.
02/28/09
However, I feel like banking on those rare success stories is incredibly dangerous. If the guy can get help and become a decent man, great. But how many of them can't or won't? And, as PilgrimSoul said, it isn't like CB was acting terrifically remorseful. So, you know, I have my doubts.
I'm trying not to be angry with Rihanna. Disappointed, yes. But sympathetic.
02/28/09
02/28/09
I...can't decide which part of my brain is to blame for this. Is it the academic or the ... I'm not sure I can call it "Britney fan" side, b/c I'm not a fan, exactly. "Britney sympathizing" side of my brain?
02/28/09