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New York, 5:57 AM
Wed Nov 25
57 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Trulymadlyme Trulymadlyme
    11/10/09

    In reply to Readers Not That Into Self's Pseudo-Kelly Clarkson
    Zoe's cover sold better because people are way, way more into pooping bonuses than pooping surprises. Duh! #kellyclarksonself
     Reply
    Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred
    Image of judgingamy judgingamy
    11/10/09

    In reply to Readers Not That Into Self's Pseudo-Kelly Clarkson
    Kelly Clarkson also hasn't done much recently, to my knowledge. Zooey had a highly buzzed-about movie. I'm sure that's a factor. #kellyclarksonself
     Reply
    judgingamy was starred judgingamy was unstarred
    Image of morninggloria morninggloria
    11/10/09

    In reply to Readers Not That Into Self's Pseudo-Kelly Clarkson
    Next months headlines:

    GET FUCKING TINY!

    How to Photoshop yourself
    into someone that
    even your guy
    won't recognize!

    You're not skinny enough. #kellyclarksonself
     Reply
    morninggloria was starred morninggloria was unstarred
    Image of sequined sequined
    11/10/09

    In reply to Readers Not That Into Self's Pseudo-Kelly Clarkson
    Might it not also be worth noting that the Kelly Clarkson cover is really dull? Besides not looking like Kelly, it's just not as pretty and cheerful.

    Plus, right next to it on the newsstand I can pick up Shape, which always features the same bikini-clad body thigh-high in water with a different celebrity's head pasted on, and what's not fun about that? #kellyclarksonself
     Reply
    sequined was starred sequined was unstarred
    Image of Bos'un's Mate Bos'un's Mate
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    So the essence of Lisa Danziger at her best is David Spade with a shaved mug?
     Reply
    Bos'un's Mate was starred Bos'un's Mate was unstarred
    Image of theringer theringer
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    What is this "personal best?"
    That makes no sense.
    Bring her into the studio, select a great, flattering outfit from the wardrobe department, do her hair and makeup to perfection and hire a great photographer to light her in the most flattering way and take 200 pictures, 1 of which, will be her personal best. That will be the beautiful image of how great Kelly Clarkson can look. That's aspirational. Making her taller and thinner is just fiction. No one would suggest that the cover of the magazine has to be an untouched picture of the bare faced, messy-haired, just got out of bed, Kelly Clarkson. She should look her best. That photo is simply not her best, it is someone else's.
     Reply
    Hana Maru promoted this comment theringer was starred theringer was unstarred
    Image of Hana Maru Hana Maru
    08/14/09

    @theringer: It's a nonsensical concept. It's driving me crazy.
     Reply
    Hana Maru was starred Hana Maru was unstarred
    Image of EudoraAegeus EudoraAegeus
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    Okay, full disclosure: I'm a guy, so I realize I'm not in this site's core demographic. But to me, this post seems a little shortsighted. Most, if not all, the women I know understand that, when they're browsing covers of glossy magazines, they're looking at art, not photographs. I know I do. I mean, this is 2009. When it comes to non-paparazzi shots of female celebrities, we know we’re usually seeing altered images. Thinking otherwise – when there have been so many Faith-Hill-in-Redbook-type “scandals” - is just naive.

    So I ask you: What’s the big deal? You argue – as you have been for years - that these images perpetuate an unrealistic standard of beauty, and subsequently make women feel inadequate. But if women KNOW that these images are digitally manipulated and enhanced – that the kind of beauty they portray, like that of a painting, can’t actually be attained in everyday life – wouldn’t they be more inclined to just appreciate (or revile) them for what they are? I’d like to think most of you would know better than to legitimately judge yourself against, essentially, a work of art.

    Self’s Kelly Clarkson cover might be digitally enhanced. But I’ve already talked to several Self readers who think it’s beautiful, interesting, inspiring, or fun - as you yourself argue all covers should be.
     Reply
    JerseyGrrrl approved this comment EudoraAegeus was starred EudoraAegeus was unstarred
    Image of JerseyGrrrl JerseyGrrrl
    08/14/09

    @EudoraAegeus: Ms. Danziger, is that you?

    OK, you make some good points. And maybe you should be right in what you're saying. But I only speak for myself when I say that yes, I compare myself to airbrushed, Photoshopped images CONSTANTLY. You know the photos are "worked on" when you see them (not to mention that most of the raw files are images of people with supernatural DNA anyway).

    But images are powerful. And the pragmatic part of your brain that tells you it's impossible to look like these images kind of shuts off. You want to look like them anyway. I seriously stare at my face and am disturbed to be able to see my pores. I feel bad about the fact that my thighs have some dimples on them, despite regular exercise.

    But enough about me. Because maybe I can be written off as one crazy. I mean, I do keep a cat. But what about men? I believe more men than admit it compare "real" women to these images and find them wanting. That's a whole other issue, not unrelated.

    Finally, I think these "worked on" images serve an important purpose: They undermine readers' self-images (maybe not your little sampling, but most of us), and put them in a mind-set to consume products and services aimed at changing themselves. I mean, if we looked at pictures of REAL people all day, with wrinkles, pores, dimples and split ends, we might just feel less scared about how imperfect we are. And that would mean a LOT less business for a lot of industries.
     Reply
    JerseyGrrrl was starred JerseyGrrrl was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    08/14/09

    @JerseyGrrrl: "I believe more men than admit it compare "real" women to these images and find them wanting. That's a whole other issue, not unrelated."
    You don't even have to just believe it. There are studies that have documented that it happens.
    Columbia did one of the first ones. Horribly depressing stuff.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin) Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin)
    08/14/09

    @EudoraAegeus: Well, I think women expect cover images that reflect the content and message of the magazine. A cover like Lady Gaga’s on Rolling Stone is a cool combination of manipulated reality that I’m okay with. I know I won’t ever have a blond afro and lay around naked covered in large bubbles, so I look at that and think "That's a crazy cool image and it catches my eye."

    With IN STYLE magazine, I expect a traditionally attractive and stylish cover and a model that is recognizable as herself. A VOGUE cover I expect an image that is more high fashion and maybe somewhere between IN STYLE and RS in terms of reality.

    With Kelly on the SELF cover, she's just standing posed in pants and a purple top, an outfit many women might wear out and a setting (or lack thereof) that is more realistic. I think women know an artsy cover when they see one, and this isn't meant to be that. With a magazine titled SELF it’s just totally disingenuous to present a human that is NOT her self.
     Reply
    Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin) was starred Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin) was unstarred
    Image of The Liquor Fairy The Liquor Fairy
    08/14/09

    @EudoraAegeus: At issue is not whether it's a beautiful cover. At issue is that the editor decided the cover would be more beautiful if Kelly's body were digitally manipulated to appear 50 lbs. thinner. That decision contradicts the magazine's "love yourself, body confidence, etc." philosophy.
     Reply
    JerseyGrrrl promoted this comment The Liquor Fairy was starred The Liquor Fairy was unstarred
    Image of Hana Maru Hana Maru
    08/14/09

    @EudoraAegeus:
    Knowing that an image is not Kelly Clarkson is not the same as seeing the real Kelly Clarkson on the cover of the magazine. The message remains, that this is how women are supposed to look, and there is a paucity of alternatives. And although the average Jez reader may know that magazine covers are altered, many do not. I certainly didn't when I was a teenager. That's why it matters that Jezebel is calling them out. BTW, The Faith Hill scandal was broken by Jezebel. It was a big embarassment for the magazine, who try to keep the real images under wraps to maintain an illusion.

    I'm one of a huge segment of women who has literally never not worried about gaining weight. Frankly, you, as a man, have no idea what it is like to grow up surrounded by messages that your value is in your looks, your body, your usefulness to men, and how whatever else you may do in life, your looks are always up for evaluation. Why are men's magazines and women's magazines filled with pictures of women? The message to men is "Enjoy looking at this hot woman" The message to women is "Fix yourself so men will want you like they want her" Women have a double consciousness in which they self objectify, in anticipation of men.

    If you want us to stop giving a shit about the cover of Self, you can do more than harangue us about it. You can stop objectifying women and stop consuming media that does. You can call out your male friends when they do. You can listen to discussions among women and ask questions without assuming we are being naive or silly to care about someting you don't care about.
     Reply
    Hana Maru was starred Hana Maru was unstarred
    Image of Rosaxé Rosaxé
    08/14/09

    @EudoraAegeus: Whether or not women know the images are photoshopped (some don't actually), the issue at hand is that "personal best" is defined as being 10 lbs thinner. Even more insulting is that next to photoshopped Kelly is a quote about her loving herself just the way she is. Apparently Self doesn't agree with that.
     Reply
    Hana Maru promoted this comment Rosaxé was starred Rosaxé was unstarred
    Image of whynotshesaid whynotshesaid
    08/15/09

    @EudoraAegeus: You know, I know intellectually that these photos are all 'shopped so much they might as well be paintings, but it doesn't keep me from feeling like a blotchy, fat, ugly mess when I look at them. I'm actually an attractive, fit woman but that all goes out the window when I see svelte women with impossibly flawless skin looking back at me every time I go to the store to get some damn food.

    Also, I suspect by your last paragraph that you might not be here just as an observer. You "talked to several Self readers"? Dude, I don't even KNOW several Self readers, and I'm their target demographic.
     Reply
    whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred
    Image of fairy princess fairy princess
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    You know, if SELF wants to only show people at their personal best, and they don't consider Kelly Clarkson to be at her personal best weight, then they shouldn't have put her on the cover. That would be a bitchy judgment for them to make, but at least they could then stick by their guns. There are plenty of rail-thin, stereotypical celebrities they could feature instead. Stop trying to relate to the common woman if you're then going to turn around and backhand her by telling her "We think you should accept yourself the way you are...but only if you're already 100% perfect."

    I also loved how in this interview they kept referring to the cover as a "poster." Call it what you will, but what you did was still wrong.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ promoted this comment Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin) approved this comment fairy princess was starred fairy princess was unstarred
    Image of Blueberry26 Blueberry26
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    Why is she talking about the import of a colorful cover? The cover isn't even colorful. It is mainly composed of purple, white, and black. Besides, no one was taking issue with the colors used. So that was kind of stupid and out of nowhere.

    I wish Kelly Clarkson would say something about this whole thing. Like, how she feels about them drastically changing her size and essentially saying that the way she is (and is happy being) isn't good enough, about her *true self* being a lot thinner. Her silence makes me wonder.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ promoted this comment Blueberry26 was starred Blueberry26 was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    08/14/09

    @Blueberry26: She has to protect her career too; she's being pragmatic IMO, unpleasant as that may be. There may even be clauses in her contract as to what she can and can't say.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of QueenCeleste QueenCeleste
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    I work in magazine publishing and let me tell you that as stupid as her comments are, the real truth is that people won't buy magazines that feature people who aren't perfect looking (i.e. skinny and gorgeous) on them. And when people don't buy magazines, editors lose their jobs, especially in this economy. As much as people say they want diversity and they want to see all body types, they don't follow through at the cash register. There's a reason editors Photoshop covers and most of it has to do with making sure they sell a shit load at the newsstand, not because they have weird body issues they haven't worked out yet with their therapists.
     Reply
    labeled promoted this comment QueenCeleste was starred QueenCeleste was unstarred
    Image of labeled labeled
    08/14/09

    @QueenCeleste: What's your back-up for that? I mean, when was the the last time anyone tried it? It sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me.
     Reply
    Edited by labeled at 08/14/09 1:10 PM labeled was starred labeled was unstarred
    Image of QueenCeleste QueenCeleste
    08/14/09

    @labeled: Covers are tested before publication all the time. Also, sales of covers are carefully compared and subjects are ranked and analyzed down to the tiniest detail.
     Reply
    QueenCeleste was starred QueenCeleste was unstarred
    Image of labeled labeled
    08/14/09

    @QueenCeleste: With whom are the covers tested? Again, I'm cynically thinking self-fulfilling prophecy. I was in a target/demo group for ebay for a while, until I realized that for the most part, all they wanted was a sort of echo-chamber + plausible deniability. "See, our users WANT this!" - when in reality, dissenting opinions were generally just swept under the rug. But ebay was able to keep a lot of this group together by pushing the feeling of inclusion - we were cool because we were special, and in the loop.
    Not saying that's how it is with cover testing. Just sayin'.
     Reply
    labeled was starred labeled was unstarred
    Image of labeled labeled
    08/14/09

    @labeled: Also, FTR, I haven't bought a magazine other than Southern Living or Texas Monthly in over.. hmm... probably six years ago I bought InStyle frequently.
     Reply
    labeled was starred labeled was unstarred
    Image of chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfish chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfish
    08/14/09

    @QueenCeleste: I've worked in the magazine business for the past decade, and you're absolutely right. Art directors do it because it's what people buy. If people didn't buy it, it would stop. But they do. Idealized images are what sell.
     Reply
    chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfish was starred chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfish was unstarred
    Image of QueenCeleste QueenCeleste
    08/14/09

    @labeled: They use market research firms to find people who read similar magazines. It wouldn't make any sense from a bottom line perspective to just get people who already like the magazine the way it is because that would limit the audience. They want as many readers as possible (more readers = more money from advertisers) so they use cover testing to find the covers that will appeal to the broadest group of people possible. Believe me, if editors could sell lots of magazines using more diverse body types, we'd already be seeing it and they'd be on the TV chat shows shilling the hell out of it. They WANT to make money. What you are seeing on magazine covers now is what people are willing to buy. It's the market place in action.
     Reply
    QueenCeleste was starred QueenCeleste was unstarred
    Image of Hana Maru Hana Maru
    08/14/09

    @QueenCeleste: I don't buy that readers don't want diversity or we would get it. Usually, the one token WOC/ fatty is put on the cover in an expected slow month like January. Celebrities are altered to look so generic, I often can't tell who they are just by looking. The interviews inside are blandly interchangeable. Don't magazines seek to please advertisers first, then the readers the advertisers want?

    Anyway, The Vogue Italia Black Issue broke records for sales. Women were clamoring for more.
     Reply
    Hana Maru was starred Hana Maru was unstarred
    Image of Rosaxé Rosaxé
    08/14/09

    @QueenCeleste: Gwyneth Paltrow's Vogue cover was one of the worst selling covers of 2008, yet I guarantee she'll have plenty of Vogue covers in the future. I feel like this is similar to the "black models don't sell covers" argument.
     Reply
    Hana Maru promoted this comment Rosaxé was starred Rosaxé was unstarred
    Image of whynotshesaid whynotshesaid
    08/15/09

    @QueenCeleste: Actually, as a former magazine reader, I'll tell you why I stopped buying magazines - because I realized you all recycle the same content over and over again. It has nothing to do with who is on the cover and everything to do with what's inside them.

    The only lady mag I still read is Elle, and that's because it has E. Jean, great book reviews and interesting features. It's certainly not because Jennifer Aniston was on the cover this week.
     Reply
    whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred
    Image of random_play random_play
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    "Aspirational" is the most annoying buzzword ever. I finally looked it up and noticed the last definition:

    5. Medicine/Medical.
    a. the act of removing a fluid, as pus or serum, from a cavity of the body, by a hollow needle or trocar connected with a suction syringe.
    b. the act of inhaling fluid or a foreign body into the bronchi and lungs, often after vomiting.
     Reply
    random_play was starred random_play was unstarred
    Image of lies_n_hubris lies_n_hubris
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    While leafing through my roommate's copy of Self, I found a picture of three women (probably no older than 20) playing volleyball on a beach in bikinis. All were beautiful, all fit.

    Two were so photoshopped they were blatantly missing bellybuttons.

    Now I am desperately searching for a plastic surgeon to remove mine, Barbie-style. Thanks Self, for reminding me what my Best Self truly should be!
     Reply
    cate3710 promoted this comment lies_n_hubris was starred lies_n_hubris was unstarred
    Image of LilSalo LilSalo
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    I work for a magazine and actually worked for SELF for 2 years. There is NO image that is published that is NOT retouched in some way. The reality is that NONE of the images reflect reality...every image is altered to look "better" in the eyes of the designer/art director.
     Reply
    ihateyourescalade promoted this comment JerseyGrrrl approved this comment LilSalo was starred LilSalo was unstarred
    Image of ihateyourescalade ihateyourescalade
    08/14/09

    @LilSalo: Agreed. I work for a women's mag too, and though our art director has a very, very soft touch, we still Photoshop every image, and we still use twentysomething girls to represent fortysomething women. Women's magazines exist for no other reason than to sell beauty and fashion advertising. That is it. And you sell more beauty and fashion advertising next to images that make readers feel like they need that body slimmer and that wrinkle cream.
     Reply
    ihateyourescalade was starred ihateyourescalade was unstarred
    Image of labeled labeled
    08/14/09

    @LilSalo: We get that. But I think the world is tired of it. Not just Jezebel, but, everyone. Maybe it's a reaction to the recession - we're just tired of trying to be something we're not and we can no longer afford it, on many levels.
    Whether it's an "it" bag, must-have car, or whatever - people are realizing the true cost of items, and are no longer willing to go into debt to prove our worth.
    Once you make that leap... wouldn't it be a step to realizing what your true worth is? And that is not a size, or the ability to compare yourself to other women's measurements.
    I think we're moving back to a more natural state - where canning preserves are just more rewarding than spending four hours on a treadmill so someone else will approve of your ass.
    So I guess we've just lost patience with the bullshit.
     Reply
    labeled was starred labeled was unstarred
    Image of ihateyourescalade ihateyourescalade
    08/14/09

    @labeled: I would SO love you to be right. I wonder, though, if this justified weariness is true of the McMansion-living, Juicy Couture tracksuit-buying, leased Beamer-driving idiocracy, or just of, you know, the smart people.
     Reply
    ihateyourescalade was starred ihateyourescalade was unstarred
    Image of labeled labeled
    08/14/09

    @ihateyourescalade: It's a start, right?
     Reply
    labeled was starred labeled was unstarred
    Image of NaldoHecuba NaldoHecuba
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    You know what? This is all a complete overreaction, and it's the straw that broke this camel's back in terms of Jezebel spouting off totally uninformed BS about the magazine industry. I might check back for Snap Judgments and kitten videos, but you guys have lost one formerly very loyal and regular reader.
     Reply
    ihateyourescalade promoted this comment NaldoHecuba was starred NaldoHecuba was unstarred
    Image of ihateyourescalade ihateyourescalade
    08/14/09

    @NaldoHecuba: I work in women's magazines too. Have worked at several. Everything about the original post is 100 percent accurate.
     Reply
    ihateyourescalade was starred ihateyourescalade was unstarred
    Image of Hana Maru Hana Maru
    08/14/09

    @NaldoHecuba: Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
     Reply
    Hana Maru was starred Hana Maru was unstarred
    Image of bonita applebum bonita applebum
    08/14/09

    In reply to Self Editor Says Photoshopped Covers Capture "Essence Of You At Your Best"
    Best part? When Emme called it Shape, not Self. Same thing really.

    Months ago I remember reading a description of one of those mags by a jezebel editor describing it as: like your friend that only ever talks about her diet and workout regimen. It gets old fast.

    I have no patience for these publications. My niece came in carrying one a few months ago. She doesn't work out and doesn't cook. "Why do you want to hate yourself?" I asked, "Throw that garbage out."
     Reply
    Anna N. promoted this comment bonita applebum was starred bonita applebum was unstarred
    Image of Anna N. Anna N.
    08/14/09

    @bonita applebum: That was me, and the article was this: [tinyurl.com] I really think Shape and Self are worse than fashion mags in a way because they act like they are good for you while being so, so bad.
     Reply
    Anna N. was starred Anna N. was unstarred
    Image of Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin) Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin)
    08/14/09

    @Anna N.: I totally agree. I read Women's Health for awhile and it made me feel *worse* than Cosmo etc. because the same diet tips were being promoted as health and athleticism, which I'd always identified with. Suddenly I was comparing my body to soccer players, runners etc instead of, oh.. I don't know.. enjoying sports because they're fun.
     Reply
    Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin) was starred Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin) was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    08/14/09

    @Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin): "because the same diet tips were being promoted as health and athleticism"

    That's not an accident.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of bonita applebum bonita applebum
    08/14/09

    @Anna N.: Absolutely agreed. But I couldn't get the link to work.
     Reply
    bonita applebum was starred bonita applebum was unstarred
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