@nyc-caribbean-ragazza: Yes, they went to Breyer or someone, you know, reasonable first, and he was like, BISH PLZ. So they took it to Thomas, natch. On the other hand, even Scalia is smart enough to see that this business is a total non-starter and a complete waste of the Court's valuable time. It takes four votes to grant Cert, and truly I can only see Thomas and maybe Alito going there. I don't think they're going to hear the case, especially after the fallout from Bush v. Gore (which was an atrociously bad and wrong decision, but for which the justification for hearing the case was at least legitimate-ish.)
Personally, I'm also sick of all this mainstream media bashing. I know that it has a lot of faults, that television news is atrocious and that budget cutbacks to appease shareholders make papers turn out progressively worse products, but it is still an important place where news gets dug up, evaluated and disseminated.
The smearing of the mainstream media's reputation and the lack of trust that people have in it is the result of a purposeful campaign by the reality challenged and our own incompetences. It really helps propagate shit like this because there are no longer sources that everyone can agree upon, there is no point of common fact that everyone can turn to and say "Hey, they're saying this in these few places can we at least agree on that?"
It hurts our ability to have a reasonable dialogue and come to the middle between two opposing viewpoints. It's the same thing that folks try to do with science denial, create a wedge and work people apart until they're no longer even agreeing on basic facts.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of great blogs out there that are doing a lot of good work pulling together different sources and digging up their own information to break stories. I mean, my feelings there should be clear based on the fact that I'm here, taking this seriously and have a huge nerd crush on Megan.
They're only going to get better as mainstream reporters migrate into the business and the blog environment coalesces into bigger and better HuffPos and Jezebels.
@rmric0.yes.we.did!: I nominate Democracy Now and Amy Goodman for consistantly reliable news with no guff. Plus she is receiveing the Alternative Nobel Peace Prize next week, so mucho props to her.
Folks, it's obvious we're not going to sway him/her. "Drinking from the Kool-Aid™" is an apt phrase, because when one decides to believe whatever they are told, by people of less than stellar reputation, they may as well have moved to Guyana themselves.
As I've stated, this issue would have manifested itself before the election, if Obama had not been able to present sufficient proof of citizenship to be placed on the ballot. That's it. If crazy people want to challenge it, fine. They will lose. Then they can go back to their quiet suburban homes, flip on the computer in their library, and continue to blog about about the vast "left-wing conspiracy." And we will not have to read about it.
@NefariousNewt: i dont think there's a left_wing conspiracy. it's funny you should assume im some crazy right wing mccain nut. im so far left that i think calling obama 'progressive' is an insult. this whole election was an insult to all of us who are awake and have been sickened for the last 8 years only to watch everyone else get duped by a false prophet.
i probably shouldnt even mention him being related to odingo from the luo tribe and all the voting fraud that went on there. but at this point what the hell. im ready for 'worst comment of the day!' or whatever.
@dchan: i probably shouldnt even mention him being related to odingo from the luo tribe and all the voting fraud that went on there. but at this point what the hell. im ready for 'worst comment of the day!' or whatever.
well, we know that voting fraud is genetic so you may have a point there.
@dchan: Have you ever even READ the comments here? I am 100% sure that the vast majority of us are far more progressive than Obama, and I don't think one of us thinks he's perfect. It's just such a blatant lie you're pushing about us.
I know the movement to remove "natural-born citizen" from the Constitution was starting with the Republicans who wanted to put Schwarzenegger up there, but could there maybe be a movement for that now? It's a stupid and antiquated law at this point, given that anyone coming from Austria or Indonesia or wherever trying to take over the U.S. would probably be called out by Chris Matthews within seconds.
I really appreciated all of the CH's this week featuring Latoya. She really brings it on, and I felt that the discussions were more substantive than usual. Keep up the good work, and bring her back as often as possible!
Since when must one born on U.S. soil have two American-born parents to be considered a natural born citizen?! It's like they're trying to set a precedent that would disqualify a whole shit load of Latin@s from ever becoming POTUS.
@SarahMC: No, they're trying to claim he wasn't born in Hawaii. If he had two American parents I don't think it would matter.
I did a little research into this crazyness yesterday. Interestingly, several different sources have come up with birth announcements in two different Honolulu newspapers. So, yeah, if it's all fake it's one of the biggest conspiracies of all times.
@yellow_dog: clearly Obama's parents just put those ads in the paper way back when though in furtherance of their dastardly plan to make him President. I mean, come on, logic and common sense dictates that line of thinking.
@SarahMC: If you are born in the US you are an American. My younger cousins have 2 Congolese parents but are American by birth.Heck your parents can be here illegally, but if you are born here, you are American. They are actually trying to change the law regarding anchor babies.
@amoureuse is a second class citizen: Yes I knew that, which is why I almost spit my Honey Bunches of Oats this AM when they reported that these loonies are trying to invalidate his citizenship in this way. That is why I wondered whether this was just a way for them to prevent American-born people with (illegal?) immigrant parents from seeking the presidency.
@yellow_dog: Little factoid I just learned. Chester Arthur, president #21, was rumored to have been born in Canada to a U.S. mother and an Irish father.
@Jamie Sommers: Me. That guy is hysterical & bubbasparks does the BEST impression of him. H. Ross Perot is like a crazy relative that shows up for the holidays and just rants & raves. Eventually, you just hug him & hand him another egg nog.
I followed the link about the "no girls allowed" club over to Bloomberg. It's pretty interesting, actually. Barney Frank, for whatever reason, is the one throwing gasoline on a fire with the supposed sexism. When I read between the lines it appears to me that Sheila Bair has locked horns a bit with the "bailout team" because she "is too focused on protecting her agency rather than the financial system as a whole". Well, folks, I think that's her job.
Anyway, I don't think the Obama administration will try to push her out and I think the perceived sexism in the issue was created by Barney Frank. (Or maybe I'm just desparate to maintain my allegiance to the Obama administration, at least until they actually get into office!)
@yellow_dog: 1. Meh, biased, but I trust Barney, who incidentally was accused of the gasoline thing after he suggested that people who blamed his support of Fannie/Freddie for causing the crisis were mostly capitalizing on racism. 2. "is too focused on protecting her agency rather than the financial system as a whole." …um, since investment banking collapsed her agency is sort of responsible for insuring and regulating the financial system as a whole. Bloomberg might have pointed that out, oh well. 3. How much you want to bet she doesn't work too well with this guy?
So, let me get this straight: NOW is promoting Carolyn McCarthy, a congresswoman with a proven track record on women's issues, and we're criticizing them for that.
@Majrhoulihan: McCarthy would be a better choice, IMO. I've always liked her. It would also be nice if at least one NY senator came from outside the five boroughs.
@SarahMC: That's just the delicious icing on their crazy racist cake. Ideally once they end this you'll only be able to be president if you can trace your ancestry back to Increase Mather.
It doesn't matter where Obama was born. His mother was American. There was a 1992 Supreme Court case about passing citizenship on to your children, and guess what: if you have an American mother, you're American by default.
@drivebyillusion: This is true, but the Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 also includes a provision (as yet uninterpreted by SCOUTUS) that states: "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." The question is what "natural born" means in this context. Though it doesn't fucking matter because Obama was born in Hawai'i.
12/05/08
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In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination.
-Mark Twain
12/05/08
12/05/08
The smearing of the mainstream media's reputation and the lack of trust that people have in it is the result of a purposeful campaign by the reality challenged and our own incompetences. It really helps propagate shit like this because there are no longer sources that everyone can agree upon, there is no point of common fact that everyone can turn to and say "Hey, they're saying this in these few places can we at least agree on that?"
It hurts our ability to have a reasonable dialogue and come to the middle between two opposing viewpoints. It's the same thing that folks try to do with science denial, create a wedge and work people apart until they're no longer even agreeing on basic facts.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of great blogs out there that are doing a lot of good work pulling together different sources and digging up their own information to break stories. I mean, my feelings there should be clear based on the fact that I'm here, taking this seriously and have a huge nerd crush on Megan.
They're only going to get better as mainstream reporters migrate into the business and the blog environment coalesces into bigger and better HuffPos and Jezebels.
12/05/08
12/05/08
As I've stated, this issue would have manifested itself before the election, if Obama had not been able to present sufficient proof of citizenship to be placed on the ballot. That's it. If crazy people want to challenge it, fine. They will lose. Then they can go back to their quiet suburban homes, flip on the computer in their library, and continue to blog about about the vast "left-wing conspiracy." And we will not have to read about it.
12/05/08
i probably shouldnt even mention him being related to odingo from the luo tribe and all the voting fraud that went on there. but at this point what the hell. im ready for 'worst comment of the day!' or whatever.
12/05/08
well, we know that voting fraud is genetic so you may have a point there.
12/05/08
psst - Your credibility is calling. It says you need to produce facts, not rants.
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Thanks to Ann Magnuson & Bongwater for helping me put this in perspective.
12/05/08
I saw Christiane Amanpour on the Colbert Report and she said that it's "eeeee-rak". She rules, therefore it's the law.
[www.colbertnation.com]
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It's like they're trying to set a precedent that would disqualify a whole shit load of Latin@s from ever becoming POTUS.
12/05/08
I did a little research into this crazyness yesterday. Interestingly, several different sources have come up with birth announcements in two different Honolulu newspapers. So, yeah, if it's all fake it's one of the biggest conspiracies of all times.
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He has dual citizenship (by birth), maybe Obama needs to hold a press conference and renounce his Kenyan-ness to make some people more comfortable.
12/05/08
[www.nytimes.com]
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It is so wrong that minisparks hates cereal for breakfast. I LOVE IT. Sigh.
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Ross Perot is remembered fondly? By whom?
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(Do I want him running our country? No.)
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Of course, my parents (love them though i do) might not be entirely with it, so infer what you will
12/05/08
Anyway, I don't think the Obama administration will try to push her out and I think the perceived sexism in the issue was created by Barney Frank. (Or maybe I'm just desparate to maintain my allegiance to the Obama administration, at least until they actually get into office!)
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Am I missing something here?
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The question is what "natural born" means in this context. Though it doesn't fucking matter because Obama was born in Hawai'i.