Like several others here, I agree she seems very nice and am glad she's doing well writing her own stuff, but honestly I'd rather listen to elevator music than her lukewarm nothing country pop. It's way edgier.
I'm not in Taylor Swift's demo in the least. I'm 26 now (and had to YouTube her because I had no idea who she was) and when I was 19 I was too busy wearing short skirts, Doc's and swearing my allegiance to all that is rock and roll. So, yeah, it's hard for me to understand why a 19 year old is writing these kind of songs. Songs that I, as a 13 year old, probably would have gotton more out of than at 19.
But, honestly, I think this is a lot of hubbub over not that much. I watched and listened to that Abigail song that was supposed to be slut shaming and... didn't think it was that at all. I thought it was about going to far with a boy only to have him ditch you later. And, yeah, that happens. It's telling girls that boys lie and that if they tell you they love you they might not always mean it as much as you do.
Also, I thought the one about loving the boy next door was perfectly legitimizing to the expieriance of young teen girls who fantasize about an out of reach guy and thinking that "well, if he just KNEW me he'd totally dump that hot girl he's with..."
I think at the end of the day the only weird thing is that I feel like the experiences she sings about are more that of 13 year olds and not 19 year olds. And I'm surprised she still has that in her.
I am 28, and firmly on Team Taylor. The points I'd make in her defense have already been made down thread by far more articulate commenters than I, so I will simply say that, regardless of the EXTENT to which she has sexytimes, I do hope she is getting at least some frequent hugging action from young Mr. Lautner.
In all seriousness, though, a couple folks have thrown out Dolly as an example of someone who's some kind of feminist icon, and I love me some Dolly, but please, have you ever listened to the lyrics of "Jolene"? And I see some mentions of Alanis, too, but even she released "Head Over Feet" as a single (rather than, say, "Not the Doctor" or "Right Through You"). I don't know, I guess I am sort of wading into the fray here, but I see "Fifteen" and "Fuck and Run" as two sides of the same coin, that coin being, "Wish I hadn't dated/smooched/boned/fallen in love with that dude, since he turned out to be an asshole and now I feel bad about it." In closing,
@Penny_Esq: I just have to defend Dolly here - "Jolene" is a very accurate and moving portrayal of a desperate woman. Feminist artists aren't required to produce "feminist approved" art, and I have heard many stories of women who heard "Jolene," recognized themselves in the lyrics, and began to gather the resolve to leave their husbands. Also, look up the lyrics to "Just Because I'm A Woman" sometime.
@BeckyIva: Okay, so I've tried to respond appropriately and succinctly a couple times but haven't made it happen... May I say, I'm in agreement with you here. I am firmly on Team Taylor, as I said, and when I invoked Dolly and Alanis and Liz Phair, it was in response to the criticism below that someone who writes lyrics that invoke or defer to the patriarchal narrative is necessarily A Bad Feminist whose cultural influence Undermines Womanity. I disagree, and I used Dolly, Alanis, and Liz, as examples of the fallacy of that logic. I see, rereading my comment, that I come across as being negative about Dolly, but my point was really that most, if not all, female artists perform songs with lyrics that sublimate patriarchal messages, then translate and redistribute them to receptive listeners as stories of either typical dudes' advantage-taking of women, or typical fairy-tale (aspirational) dudes' adoration of women. Then we all relate, and gather together under those standards/banners. The idea that there are "legitimate" female artists, (e.g., Alanis and Dolly) whose bodies of work fall somewhere outside this sphere of feminist criticism, is a fallacy, and my aim was to highlight that.
In short, my point was, don't be all "Taylor Swift's music undermines feminism" and then invoke Alanis or Dolly as women whose music and lyrics, on their faces, does not. And in that vein, commenters below have lamented "Love Story" and have either been unaware of, or have brushed off the fact that, "White Horse" is Part II of that narrative. It takes context to make "Jolene" into a woman-positive narrative; likewise, "Head Over Feet" is "forgivable" in light of "You Oughta Know."
Jesus, I could write a whole nother ten pages on this (and I did, in fact, write a paper in college, 2002, on this topic vis a vis Britney); long story short, sometimes we invoke one woman's life and career as a way to undermine and criticize another's (Dolly v. Taylor), when in reality they are both tremendously powerful, successful women, and the difference between them TODAY is that Taylor is 19 and Dolly is 63 and gets the depth of context afforded to people with 40-year, rather than 4-year, careers.
I hope this is not completely nonsensical. It was clearly not "in short." Sorry. It's a topic that gets my blood flowing and synapses firing. Nothing but love for Dolly.
@Penny_Esq: Well! That was quite a response! I get you now. Glad to know we share a love of Dolly, and you inspired me to look up the lyrics to "White Horse"... Wow, that really does show a different side. I may go download it to see if it sounds as cool as it reads...
I love and adore Taylor and I am weirdly protective of her. Also, she's growing up. I am convinced she has a Jagged Little Pill album in her. We just have to wait. I don't see what being mean towards her accomplishes. She's nice! And doesn't dress skanky!
What is it about niceness that offends so many people? Is it envy? Misanthrophy? Paranoia? (I'm lookin' at you, Hess) I have no issue with Swift delivering nice love songs that make numerous listeners feel good. As a music critic, I'm often told that so much supposedly "honest" music is about rage, murderous hatred, depression or explicit lust - and yet, too many artists who deliver those goods are the opposite of their schtick when the step off the stage. Just another phony act. Now if Swift delivers nice love songs simply because that's just she wants to do then fine. I'm not expecting her to jam with Japanese noise artist Merzbow anytime soon or pull a Kathleen Hanna and scrawl "whore" on her belly and scream, "Suck my left one." While I find the instrumentation of her music to be bland and not contributing much to country-pop, it's fruitless to quickly suspect that her princess-fantasy is diabolically phony and must be ruined for society's sake.
Maybe we want her to be more adult. I don't like current country music because it's all bland and boring and nothing like Johnny Cash or even Pasty Cline or even Dolly. Are we expecting her to act like an adult when she is a product of her background? A fairly protected girl who writes about love and romance without knowing anything about it because she hasn't been allowed to feel anything but the sanitized version. Even Alanis Morisette who wrote some really amazing songs at Taylor's age was still showing her youth a little because as she aged she realized that love isn't as all encompassing as she felt it to be at 19. As adults, we have to encourage our youth to look at more. I have quite a few students that are doing the whole waiting until marriage thing and I want to be a mom and I say, that's great, but maybe you should give yourself room for reality. I try to let them know that their decision is their decision, but their decision to be a virgin is no more right or wrong than someone else's decision to not be one. I try to give them the wisdom of the few years I have on them while still letting them be age-appropriate. They're all about Taylor's age too.
I would like to go on record that we should be referencing her as Taylor Swift, country-singer, pop-princess, and aspiring rap star.
Anyone who makes such an AWESOME video with T-Pain deserves as much. In fact, in the video she MOCKS her nice girl status "I KNIT SWEATERS, YO." in a way that's refreshing and kind of like "I get that I'm not that exciting of a person because I like to knit and bake but that's what I like to do let me wrap about it with T-Pain!" Because I'm 24, and I like to knit and bake.
My only problem with Swift is that her music is terrible. Keep on rocking those sparkly dresses and being fake-shocked when you win awards live via satellite, Taylor, but I'm gonna listen to L7 in my little corner over here.
@brendahamLincoln: Yeah, that. Which in my mind, makes what Kanye did to her even more inconsiderate. Him and Beyonce will be back to various award shows time and time again, year after year. Taylor's time in the sun is limited unless she makes some drastic changes, so she needs to enjoy it while it lasts. Even for a pop star, her music is saccharine, I'm talking shades of Debbie Boone.
@Justine: Wow, I didn't even think of that, but you're right. I'd be surprised if she's not playing county fairs in a few years time. She's super popular now, but I don't see her having the staying power of her "tormentor" or Beyonce.
I'm totally out of step with music culture, I had no idea that she was meant to be a sparkly princess. All I knew was that she wrote one of the Jonas brothers into a breakup anthem, and then twisted the knife with her "Hey Joe, I'm doin' real well, and hosting SNL!" singalogue. Which made me laugh and laugh.
So if she's meant to be a pure little lamb, I had no idea. Her songs are annoyingly catchy, and I find her (pretty tame) vindictive streak sort of awesome. Who HASN'T wanted to take a jab at their jerk ex-boyfriend/personal Kanye, while smiling sweetly?
@limber: I agree I had not really thought of what her public persona was set up to be.
I've always liked her simply because her songs are exactly like a teenager diary. At 20 going on 21 I'm at an age where I'm not in a teenage world anymore but I wouldn't know it by the teenage behavior this is still prominent in my work and university life.
When her first songs came out I was her prime target audience. I felt like she gave teenage girls away to be sad that didn't have the so-called emo vibe to it. It was a sparkly happiness that cried in her(my) room when relationships I had bigger dreams for fell to pieces.
For this reason I'll always support the (current) music she is putting out. And I'm going to enjoy myself at her concert this May :)
You know what? I've always had a sort of demure, sweet, old-fashioned manner. It's not affected, it's just my personality. Which means that when people project their inaccurate assumptions and prejudices onto me, they are surprised to find out that I'm smart as a motherfucking whip, with frequently subversive ideas. Just because she isn't fitting strangers' ideas of what a feminist acts and looks like doesn't mean she isn't one, or won't be when she has some age and experience and good reading material under her belt.
Let her wear cute dresses and write songs about boys, but don't use those things to make guesses about her intelligence or beliefs.
@suck_it_monkeys: Well said - just because she isn't controversial doesn't mean that she's not smart, feminist, strong, or anything else. In fact, a female musician who can play both sides of the card in regards to femininity/feminism may reach a broader audience than anyone else could. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
Even though it totally irked me to hear college-age girls belt out "Romeo save me, I've been feelin' so alone," I would have been totally inclined to agree with you because a feminist certainly does not need to be overtly sexual. But then I saw her "15" video, which Sady Doyle discusses in the link hortense listed, and I was swayed Doyle's analysis. The judge-y attitude goes beyond "I'm a cute, doe-eyed romantic" and into the dangerous realm of slut shaming.
But one song does not a career make, so I guess we'll see what happens when she gets older. Luckily 15 wasn't one of her more popular hits.
@imamouse_duh: Except the girl she sings about is her best friend. And the redhead in the video is actually the best friend. I don't really see the slut shaming. The problem isn't that she lost her virginity, but that the guy she had sex with was an ass. At least, that's how I always read it.
Sometimes the simplest answer is more than likely the truth; that Taylor Swift is a 19 year old girl with a lot of talent. Yours truly had some pretty ridiculous notions about life, the world, and relationships when I was 19, and I'm definitely not singing the same tune (ha ha, see what I did there) 13 years later. I doubt she will be either.
This may date me, but when I grew up I worshipped Marie Osmond when she was 18. Her and her family were unlike anything I grew up around and I would spend every Friday night watching her and her brothers on their corny variety show. In sharp contrast, girls my age were doing drugs, dressing slutty and getting pregnant at 13, while I lived in an arrested development of pure ignorant bliss.
Although Marie has had her troubles (two divorces and a very public postpartum depression period), she still remains the sweet, innocent girl I looked up to. If Taylor has the right people around her, she can survive the trappings of Hollywood. I really hope she can.
Between her goofy appearance on Dancing with Stars and those creepy dolls she sells on QVC, I still love Marie Osmond!
I always forget that she's older than I am. I like her and find her refreshing, and like Sadie, developed a girl crush on her style against my will.
Part of the reason she seems so likable may have to due with the fact they we're surrounded by the opposite as far as young entertainers go.
I have to say though, I kind of love Nick Jones (the youngest, I think). He has type 1 Diabetes, and so does my 12 y.o. cousin. She wrote him a letter and got to meet him...she was encouraged and absolutely thrilled.
I have never seen or heard Taylor Swift perform. I find it odd that her detractors believe that a "wholesome" image can only arise from a cynical ploy to sell more albums. Actually, at Taylor’s age I would have related far more to her than to a Britney or Xtina and I would much rather under age girls followed her style of dressing than that shown by the nine year old sister of Miley recently in Jezebel. As for deriding the lyrics for not being edgy, well that sentiment just about consigns the entire output of western popular music to the rubbish bin.
In all seriousness, I yearn for a return to the nineties.
At first, I was accepting of the whole new squeaky-clean Hollywood generation but it has officially begun to bug me. The vast majority of teen idols do not make good role models for kids and parents used to know that. I'm just sick of these uber-pure Jonas Brother type celebrities. They all seem either artificial or extremely annoying.
As for Swift, I genuinely like her. While I dislike the "super wholesome image and princess-fairy-tale" aspect of her popularity, I feel like that's only from others projecting that image onto her. Plus, the girl actually has talent, which is becoming alarmingly rare these days (have I mentioned the Joans Brothers already?). I get really sick of her "Ugh, that boy is so cute! I wish he liked me!" songs but hopefully as she becomes are more respected artist, she'll realize that she doesn't need that trite anymore.
That said, I REALLY MISS THE '90s! Think about it, we had the Spice Girls preachin' girl power and teen comedies starring thirty year-olds and featuring realistic/non-preachy messages. Those were good times that the youth of today will never be able to get back.
P.S. I hate you, Disney Channel. You went from Bug Juice and Even Stevens to Hannah Montana and JONAS. YOU'RE RUINING THE YOUTH OF AMERICA!
@JessickerFletcher: Man, that was incoherent, wasn't it? Who cares, I've been wanting to rant about the Jonas Brothers ever since my tweenage neighbor told me that she and all of her friends agree that "the Jonas Brothers are WAAAAAAAY better than The Beatles," and when her brother made a "the Jonas Brothers are obviously homosexual" comment she responded "Ew, gross. They can't be gay, they go to church and they're not perverted. Besides they're too hot to be gay."
@woodsey: Yeah, she's in for quite a shock. Specific to 3: I feel like at least 90% of the men I'm attracted to prove to be of the homosexual persuasion. Also isn't the tween girl hot-scale another name for the "Zac Efron Pretty Richter Scale (in which the magnitude of prettiness is logarithmic)?
@JessickerFletcher: I agree! Music got extremely bipolar for female artists after the 90s. There's always violent switch between overtly sexualized and repressed seemingly innocent songs. In the 90s, there seemed to be a more calm balance with TLC telling us to be cautious and define our own definition of beauty, Spice Girls encouraging us to be wild and crazy and enjoy life, and En Vogue challenging us to free our mind.
I find Taylor Swift so vanilla that I can't really enjoy her music. The songs are too homogenous in a Nickelback way. There's no passion or introduction to a new way of thinking.
I hate that the Disney Channel morphed into a bland mush when it had such a variety of shows and naturally talented kids. I became disillusioned that they tried to make all their actors triple threats in the Kids Bop variety and immersing themselves in tv movies. I breathe a sigh of relief that talented young girls like Dakota Fanning, Abigail Breslin, and Jamia Nash don't fall under their allure.
@weirdgasm: "I find Taylor Swift so vanilla that I can't really enjoy her music. The songs are too homogenous in a Nickelback way. There's no passion or introduction to a new way of thinking."
ONE WORD: HEARTED.
(Seriously, your comment perfectly defined everything - well almost everything; MTV has nothing related to music anymore and tabloids have reached critical mass - that I find wrong with today's pop culture)
@boss_lady: So true. How often does Taylor Swift make public appearances in t-shirts and overalls? I'm guessing never. But I've sure seen her in short skirts and strapless dresses a lot.
@JessickerFletcher: I hated that shift from music to (skewered) reality shows. Our lives have already been with so much harsh reality. I'm not even 20 and I already seen as much as some people have seen their whole lives. Music used to be an escape, an assurance that things would be just fine. I don't know if it's too extreme to say this, but technology is the salt to that wound. I miss the days when we were just there for the show and the show ended rather than having a real-time update of the performers.
@JessickerFletcher: What? The hottest Jonas brother trips off my gaydar like crazy. In my experience, it works that way... some of the hottest guys play for the other team. Gay guys are apparently the Yankees of sexual orientations, or something.
01:55 PM
12/06/09
But, honestly, I think this is a lot of hubbub over not that much. I watched and listened to that Abigail song that was supposed to be slut shaming and... didn't think it was that at all. I thought it was about going to far with a boy only to have him ditch you later. And, yeah, that happens. It's telling girls that boys lie and that if they tell you they love you they might not always mean it as much as you do.
Also, I thought the one about loving the boy next door was perfectly legitimizing to the expieriance of young teen girls who fantasize about an out of reach guy and thinking that "well, if he just KNEW me he'd totally dump that hot girl he's with..."
I think at the end of the day the only weird thing is that I feel like the experiences she sings about are more that of 13 year olds and not 19 year olds. And I'm surprised she still has that in her.
12/06/09
In all seriousness, though, a couple folks have thrown out Dolly as an example of someone who's some kind of feminist icon, and I love me some Dolly, but please, have you ever listened to the lyrics of "Jolene"? And I see some mentions of Alanis, too, but even she released "Head Over Feet" as a single (rather than, say, "Not the Doctor" or "Right Through You"). I don't know, I guess I am sort of wading into the fray here, but I see "Fifteen" and "Fuck and Run" as two sides of the same coin, that coin being, "Wish I hadn't dated/smooched/boned/fallen in love with that dude, since he turned out to be an asshole and now I feel bad about it." In closing,
LEAVE TAYLOR ALONE!!!1!1!!11!
12/06/09
12/06/09
12/06/09
In short, my point was, don't be all "Taylor Swift's music undermines feminism" and then invoke Alanis or Dolly as women whose music and lyrics, on their faces, does not. And in that vein, commenters below have lamented "Love Story" and have either been unaware of, or have brushed off the fact that, "White Horse" is Part II of that narrative. It takes context to make "Jolene" into a woman-positive narrative; likewise, "Head Over Feet" is "forgivable" in light of "You Oughta Know."
Jesus, I could write a whole nother ten pages on this (and I did, in fact, write a paper in college, 2002, on this topic vis a vis Britney); long story short, sometimes we invoke one woman's life and career as a way to undermine and criticize another's (Dolly v. Taylor), when in reality they are both tremendously powerful, successful women, and the difference between them TODAY is that Taylor is 19 and Dolly is 63 and gets the depth of context afforded to people with 40-year, rather than 4-year, careers.
I hope this is not completely nonsensical. It was clearly not "in short." Sorry. It's a topic that gets my blood flowing and synapses firing. Nothing but love for Dolly.
07:58 AM
10:04 AM
12/05/09
12/05/09
12/06/09
She's a cutie. And she's doing just fine.
12/05/09
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12/05/09
Anyone who makes such an AWESOME video with T-Pain deserves as much. In fact, in the video she MOCKS her nice girl status "I KNIT SWEATERS, YO." in a way that's refreshing and kind of like "I get that I'm not that exciting of a person because I like to knit and bake but that's what I like to do let me wrap about it with T-Pain!" Because I'm 24, and I like to knit and bake.
12/05/09
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12/05/09
So if she's meant to be a pure little lamb, I had no idea. Her songs are annoyingly catchy, and I find her (pretty tame) vindictive streak sort of awesome. Who HASN'T wanted to take a jab at their jerk ex-boyfriend/personal Kanye, while smiling sweetly?
12/05/09
I've always liked her simply because her songs are exactly like a teenager diary. At 20 going on 21 I'm at an age where I'm not in a teenage world anymore but I wouldn't know it by the teenage behavior this is still prominent in my work and university life.
When her first songs came out I was her prime target audience. I felt like she gave teenage girls away to be sad that didn't have the so-called emo vibe to it. It was a sparkly happiness that cried in her(my) room when relationships I had bigger dreams for fell to pieces.
For this reason I'll always support the (current) music she is putting out. And I'm going to enjoy myself at her concert this May :)
12/05/09
Let her wear cute dresses and write songs about boys, but don't use those things to make guesses about her intelligence or beliefs.
12/05/09
After all, feminism is a lot about accepting women how they accept themselves.
12/05/09
12/05/09
12/05/09
Even though it totally irked me to hear college-age girls belt out "Romeo save me, I've been feelin' so alone," I would have been totally inclined to agree with you because a feminist certainly does not need to be overtly sexual. But then I saw her "15" video, which Sady Doyle discusses in the link hortense listed, and I was swayed Doyle's analysis. The judge-y attitude goes beyond "I'm a cute, doe-eyed romantic" and into the dangerous realm of slut shaming.
But one song does not a career make, so I guess we'll see what happens when she gets older. Luckily 15 wasn't one of her more popular hits.
12/05/09
12/05/09
Let's get together and send her a "THIS IS WHAT A FEMINIST LOOKS LIKE" t-shirt, please?
12/05/09
12/05/09
Although Marie has had her troubles (two divorces and a very public postpartum depression period), she still remains the sweet, innocent girl I looked up to. If Taylor has the right people around her, she can survive the trappings of Hollywood. I really hope she can.
Between her goofy appearance on Dancing with Stars and those creepy dolls she sells on QVC, I still love Marie Osmond!
12/05/09
Part of the reason she seems so likable may have to due with the fact they we're surrounded by the opposite as far as young entertainers go.
I have to say though, I kind of love Nick Jones (the youngest, I think). He has type 1 Diabetes, and so does my 12 y.o. cousin. She wrote him a letter and got to meet him...she was encouraged and absolutely thrilled.
12/05/09
12/05/09
At first, I was accepting of the whole new squeaky-clean Hollywood generation but it has officially begun to bug me. The vast majority of teen idols do not make good role models for kids and parents used to know that. I'm just sick of these uber-pure Jonas Brother type celebrities. They all seem either artificial or extremely annoying.
As for Swift, I genuinely like her. While I dislike the "super wholesome image and princess-fairy-tale" aspect of her popularity, I feel like that's only from others projecting that image onto her. Plus, the girl actually has talent, which is becoming alarmingly rare these days (have I mentioned the Joans Brothers already?). I get really sick of her "Ugh, that boy is so cute! I wish he liked me!" songs but hopefully as she becomes are more respected artist, she'll realize that she doesn't need that trite anymore.
That said, I REALLY MISS THE '90s! Think about it, we had the Spice Girls preachin' girl power and teen comedies starring thirty year-olds and featuring realistic/non-preachy messages. Those were good times that the youth of today will never be able to get back.
P.S. I hate you, Disney Channel. You went from Bug Juice and Even Stevens to Hannah Montana and JONAS. YOU'RE RUINING THE YOUTH OF AMERICA!
12/05/09
That girl's got a lot to learn.
12/05/09
12/05/09
1. no one is better than the Beatles for so many reasons there is not enough time in world to even discuss it. Accept as fact.
2. the Reverend Ted Haggard
3. Every guy over an 8 on the tween girl hot-scale = raging homo or at the very least styled by one (see Zac Efron).
12/05/09
Unrequited crush on your cute, hot, kind male BFF, ahoy!
12/05/09
12/05/09
I find Taylor Swift so vanilla that I can't really enjoy her music. The songs are too homogenous in a Nickelback way. There's no passion or introduction to a new way of thinking.
I hate that the Disney Channel morphed into a bland mush when it had such a variety of shows and naturally talented kids. I became disillusioned that they tried to make all their actors triple threats in the Kids Bop variety and immersing themselves in tv movies. I breathe a sigh of relief that talented young girls like Dakota Fanning, Abigail Breslin, and Jamia Nash don't fall under their allure.
12/05/09
ONE WORD: HEARTED.
(Seriously, your comment perfectly defined everything - well almost everything; MTV has nothing related to music anymore and tabloids have reached critical mass - that I find wrong with today's pop culture)
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