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In America, We Value Most Lives

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checkyaself
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
This is Hilarious, not the actual story but the responses.

When this was posted on the Leftovers section earlier this week on Jezebel nobody commented on it more people commented in the new Playboy show, but now everyone is pretending to care especially seeing it happened to a black woman. Where were all of you guys on earlier this week, or is Playboy just more interesting on Tuesdays and dead babies more interesting on Fridays?
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Evie Havok
01/09/09

@checkyaself: I would have said something but I wasn't on this site that day.
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formergr
01/09/09

@checkyaself: I can only speak for myself, but I often miss Leftovers, or if I do skim it it's easy to miss an item since it's, you know, a bunch of leftover items just posted en masse.

So no, I'm not just pretending to care what happened to this woman, and I'll thank you for not making such radical assumptions about us commenters.
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Evie Havok
01/09/09

@I_Love_AFI: Being that I will always comment on posts that have something to do with race/class. It's my topic.
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checkyaself
01/09/09

@checkyaself:

I take that back this is not hilarious this is sad. It is sad that on a site trafficked by women (many who consider themselves feminist) a story on Playboy will get more responses than one about a dead baby and then when you add a black face to it people want to send out their pity induced condolences and outrage.

However, its not just the commenters when I read the story on CBS news.com I came right here to Jezebel to see if they would have a post on it but there was no real post just a link in the Leftovers section, under a picture of scantily clad women.

Maybe I need to get my panties out of a bunch sex sells and why shouldn't women be able to buy into it as well.
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SarahMC
01/09/09

@checkyaself: I don't think that's fair at all. Of course more people are going to comment on a post about ONE topic than a short blurb surrounded by a dozen other short blurbs. Leftovers goes up after I've already left work and I'm sure the same is true for a lot of other readers; I don't comment as often at night and when I due it's typically on threads I was already participating in during the day.
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Beets.Go.On is the Fat Yogini
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
That is horrifying. I hope she takes that fucking hospital for everything she can, not that that could come close to undoing the damage they've done. That's just shockingly disgraceful. My heart breaks for her.
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LKG1
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
When I gave birth to my son, we named him after my husband. When one of the (White)nurses came into my room she asked me the folowing questions:

1) Have I registered for W.I.C. yet?
2) Did I name my child after my father? (Wait. What?)
3) Did I need the forms to register my son with
Medi-Cal(welfare).

After lovingly placing my son down, I proceeded to get in her behind with the following, probably making me out to be the "angry Black woman" she expected me to be. "Never mind the 2 carrot diamond/platinum ring on my finger. Never mind the fact that I'm more than insured and where did that W.I.C. comment come from? And damn it all to hell, how do you figure that I named my child after my father?? I'm married to a White male so by no means am I racist. But I have to say that racism is alive and well in this country."

She stood there with her mouth open and mumbled something. At that point I just showed her the door and reported her to the hospital. Needless to say I didn't see her again for the remainder of my stay.

My heart goes out to this woman. Nobody should ever have to go through something so horrific. EVER.
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Evie Havok
01/09/09

@LKG1: Good for you. I applaud you for putting her in her place.
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
01/09/09

@LKG1: WOW. I don't think I'd have been able to handle that in any way that could be construed as "calm". You just made me feel very proud, sort of by-proxy I suppose, but still.
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LKG1
01/09/09

@terribletwenties aka Aesop's Foibles: Thank you. I'm known for cutting a person with a smile. :-)
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
01/09/09

@LKG1: I wish I was like that. Being the type that would rather just plain cut someone, I have to do a great deal of self-suppression.

:) And you are most welcome.
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Jessi Ramsey
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
Goodness how did I miss this thread?

So much to read and respond to, so little time.
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Red-headed bookworm
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
It's a horrible, horrible thing to happen to this woman but, if they think his body was incinerated and authorities have dug through trash at landfills, I don't know if I disagree with calling off the search for his body. Locally, a few years back, a woman was killed and the presumed her body was dumped in a dumpster. They checked landfills and couldn't find the body. If you can't find an adult, think how hard it must be to find an infant. I don't think we should be angry with those who stopped searching for the body but rather those at the hospital who did this in the first palce.
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
Just looking at her face and knowing what she's going through makes me rethink having children. Not only because of all the abductions and abuse that happens all the time (I mean for fuck's sake, that AMW guy's kid was beheaded!! That fucking monster actually...oh Jesus I can't continue) but then you have to worry about the obviously real possibility that your baby will be thrown out like garbage. And while I do agree with those of you who've said that had this would NEVER be allowed to happen to a white family, I also think that regardless of race/class/socioeconomic status, this is an absolute OUTRAGE. AND IT MAKES ME WANT TO THROW UP WHILE MURDERING SOMEONE. I feel sick, honestly. Not that it will change anything, but she and her innocent little baby will be in my prayers.
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sassy
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
You have got to be fucking kidding me.

One of my best friends is expected to go into labor this weekend, and now I feel like I should GPS her baby.
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nellicat
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
It is horrible that the woman doesn't have her baby's body to give a proper funeral/burial/cremation. I guess I'm pretty much removed from it, because from teh time I was a little girl my parents have planned to donate their bodies to medical school for experimentation/teaching/educational purposes, so a corpse just doesn't seem sentimental to me. After reading Mary Roach's book on corpses, I feel even more strongly.

But obviously, most people feel differently, including this mother. For MOST people, this is a horrendous thing and my heart breaks for this mother who wants to give her baby a proper funeral and fitting tribute. It must be horrendous to believe that the sacred was treated so callously as to be made profane. Sad, sad story.
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J.D.Regent
01/09/09

@nellicat: I would donate my body to science but I still wouldn't want it thrown out in the trash.
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nellicat
01/09/09

@J.D.Regent: That's interesting. I don't want to threadjack, and I realize that I sound callous, and I really, really am NOT callous because for most people this is really traumatic.

But . . . why not? Why is moldering in the ground better? You're dead. You don't care anymore. The decaying flesh that used to be YOU are completely inanimate matter.

Again, I know most people see it differently. Even medical schools have burial/cremation ceremonies where teh donated bodies are reverently treated. I see the symbolism of this, but it's really just symbolism.

If your corpse is going to molder in the earth or be consumed by fire anyhow, and if your friends/family can pay their respects and remember you in a ceremony without your corpse present, why would it matter?
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J.D.Regent
01/09/09

@nellicat: I think the fact that the family can't pay respects to their child's body is a big part of the reason it's not ok to throw it into the trash. I don't mind if I am cremated, or donated to science, or feasted upon by cannibals, but I want my family to be able to dispose of my body in a way that befits their religious and personal beliefs and to say good bye to it. The problem with this case is not the eventual laying grounds of the child's body, but the fact that his surviving family was not treated with enough respect to be able to decide what happened to his body.
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nellicat
01/09/09

@J.D.Regent: Yes, I understand stand taht I can sympathize, but I can't empathize, because I really wasn't taught to think about our corporeal bodies that way. Yes, it is horrible what happened to this poor mother - my heart aches for her. To not be able to grieve for your baby in the way that you believe would be the most healing would be horrible. To believe that your baby was treated like trash would be well nigh unbearable.

I know I am biased, but I do wish more people were raised with the beliefs my parents instilled in us. If this woman had been, her grief over the death of her child wouldn't be compounded over her grief over not being able to grieve him properly and her agony over his body being treated like "trash."
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formergr
01/09/09

@nellicat: I was raised in a manner similar to yours, and also don't really care about corporal remains. But if this were my baby, I'd be PISSED, and greatly upset. Not because the lack of body would prevent me from mourning, but because I'd be very paranoid and wondering what the heck happened.

The last thing this woman remembers is being semi-conscious and holding what she was certain was a breathing baby. The next thing she knows is she is being told the baby is 1) dead, and 2) gone. I would be insane with various scenarios running through my head of what really happened, and would find it hard to believe anyone. So I think in this particular case, having attitudes similar to ours would not have spared her from additional grief.

I'd want to see a body so I know my child is undeniably dead, and then secondarily an autopsy to find out what happened. Because any hospital negligent enough to lose a *baby's body* may certainly have been negligent enough to contribute to its death.
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nellicat
01/09/09

@formergr: Those are all excellent points I hadn't really considered. I guess I accepted that the baby was born dead or died shortly after birth. How awful.
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aubonpam
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
And healthcare in the USA manages to astound me with it's callousness, once again.
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shorty63136
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
Something like this happened in St. Louis a couple of years ago. They put the wrapped-up baby in a linen closet.
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whatsername
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
In America, we value most lives

Sorry for conflating other stories with this one but I am fucking filled with RAGE for the way the underclass, black or white, but mostly black, is treated in America.

Oscar Grant.
Robbie Tolan.
Baby Moore and his mom.

AND THIS IS JUST THE LAST TWO WEEKS.
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Evie Havok
01/09/09

@whatsergem: The headline should be changed to: "In America, we value (white) lives." I think that would be more accurate.
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whatsername
01/09/09

@I_Love_AFI: A friend and I were emailing about this today (we're not Americans, we're on a whole other continent) and we just cannot understand how this shit STILL HAPPENS!! Its like there's no rhyme nor reason, and like we really don't matter, still. Thats the feeling that comes up (I'm being very careful here, I don't want to incite a flame war on race, so I'm describing a feeling, not necessarily fact). But thats the immediate, gut, instinct that goes with it.

And then sadness.
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peperony and chease
01/09/09

@whatsergem: Don't get me started on Oscar Grant. You don't lock that officer up but you'll jail protesters? That he meant to use his taser is an acceptable excuse? Bitch please. I was in Oakland last night and the police helicopters were hovering like Sarah Palin over a wolf.
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whatsername
01/09/09

@peperony and chease: Jailed protestors? WTF? I've been dying for that story to be reported here. I cannot, just CAN.NOT believe that the officer hasn't even been questioned yet (since I last checked).

Stay safe there in Oakland.
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peperony and chease
01/09/09

@whatsergem: Just remember, those videos of an unarmed facedown unresisting man being shot in the back are "inconclusive." What the fuck.
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Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
How did the hospital know the baby was discarded in the trash?

Someone must have copped to it...
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arodriguez.romero
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
I am remembering that poor kid who died from the abscessed tooth in Baltimore due to lack of access to dental care(a hobby horse of mine).

This case and that one absolutely reflect class-ist and racist issues, imo.
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SisterMaryMartha
01/09/09

@arodriguez.romero: There was a boy in Philly who was taken away from his mother - because his teeth were so rotted out.
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CherriSpryte
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
..... there are no words. This is horrible.
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Jamie Sommers
01/09/09

In reply to In America, We Value Most Lives
But the family and the hospital disagree over whether Bashere was born alive.

What fucking difference does it make??!!!! You don't fucking throw a child in the fucking trash you motherfuckers!
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chrisdag
01/09/09

@Jamie Sommers: It matters greatly regarding how body/remains are handled and what the responsibility/liability issues for the hospital. The hospital has a huge vested interest in saying that the baby was not born alive because stillborns are treated differently under the law.
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Ramseylicious
01/09/09

@chrisdag:
But even if the baby were born dead...is the protocol ever to throw the baby in the trash????
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