Jezebel 
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New York, 5:03 PM
Thu Nov 26
42 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/27/09
I think the question of being considerate at the dinner table is an interesting one, though. Like most other vegans/vegetarians I know, I go out of my way to pretend that I totally don't care what other people eat around me, that I don't think less of them for eating meat, that their justifications about why they do it make sense--for them. I roll my eyes "good-naturedly" at their offensive jokes. I do that partly because I don't want to provide ammunition to those whose main argument against veganism is the humorless/uptight/judgmental attitude of those who practice it, and I do it partly because I love my friends and family and know that they are kind, thoughtful, and progressive people, better than me.
But it is endlessly frustrating to me to sit at the table with those friends, the ones who treat their pets like family and cry at SPCA commercials, who coo at videos of piglets and kittens and donate to animal shelters, and watch them willfully and defiantly ignore the massive horror that is the provenance of their factory-farmed food. I ate meat for half my life, so I know what it is to put the thought out of your mind, to focus on Betsy the happy cow, pretend you are only eating the miniscule proportion of meat and dairy that is "humane," and reassure yourself by looking at the people who are joyfully eating meat around you. The truth is everywhere, though, and sometimes it's hard to go along with the fantasy just to be nice. #natalieportman
10/27/09
10/27/09
Now...for Ms. Portman's rape comment: You fucking rape-apologist, STFU.
Thank you. Done and done. #natalieportman
10/27/09
10/27/09
Oh well. Don't quit yer day job. #natalieportman
10/27/09
There is a difference.
And I really don't think refusing meat as a guest at dinner equates as judgement. Sure, I feel bad about it sometimes as a non-member of the overall group because I'm refusing something, but I didn't become a vegetarian to become a follower anyway.
All of my friends and acquaintances know my beliefs, but not because I lecture them. They'll either ask me or we'll have a discussion on the topic. And while not eating meat is a belief I hold close to my heart, I can't be presumptuous enough to tell someone else how they should live or eat. This lifestyle isn't for everyone, and the only thing I adamantly advocate to everyone is to be conscious of where your food (animal, vegetable or mineral) comes from. Doing our part in some small way can lead us all to happier, healthier lives for ourselves and our animal counterparts.
So, in conclusion, yaaaaaaaaaay for non-judgement and everyone living and eating consciously and harmoniously! :) #natalieportman
10/27/09
Frankly, I doubt many people will read this essay and jump ship to veggie lifestyles, especially when her language is so harsh and a first reaction may be defense (in which case, you've lost your target audience). I don't watch or listen to actors for their personal opinions. They're not gurus. So, perhaps their fame lends them automatic audiences, but I'm not so sure that some actors deserve it. #natalieportman
10/27/09
I have no problem with vegans or vegetarians who do it for health or environmental reasons. The problem is, when pressed, it seems like the "meat is always wrong" folks are usually out of touch with where their food actually comes from.
Slaughtering animals is way more shocking for the slaughterer than for the slaughteree. There's no dread. No lasting pain. None of what makes death scary to people. A chicken killed by human hands dies a faster, more dignified death than most of us will ever experience.
When you're actually around farm animals, you can't deny that it's what we're supposed to do and this is the way it should be. We've co-evolved with these things for thousands of years. They need us even more than we need them. A cow's ancestors chose this over freedom. On a farm (not a factory farm) there's not much pain caused by humans. They suffer sometimes, but from disease and injury, and farmers try to fix whatever is wrong with them. Our ability to do that is what made hanging out with people a good deal for 'em in the first place. They live well-fed, disease-free lives, protected from predators. They get to reproduce better than in the wild. It doesn't end well, but that's true for us, too.
So yeah, when she says "what stories do we want to tell our children through their food?" I don't want to leave meat out of that. I'd much rather they slit a pig's throat with their own hands than eat a bag of fucking Doritos and pretend that food comes from factories. #natalieportman
10/27/09
10/27/09
Christ on a motherfuckin' pony already. #natalieportman
10/27/09
10/27/09
P.S. NY I Love You was one of the worst movies I've seen all year. #natalieportman
10/27/09
10/27/09
I've read her piece several times over and I'll still can't figure out how she can go from the legitimate health concerns of factory farming to it being some sort of moral imperative. And if Portman is such a word-traveler as her profile would lead to believe, how is it that she never addresses the fact that most people (hell, most people in the US alone) cannot afford a vegan lifestyle, or even to buy grass-fed meat and organic veggies?
I don't look down on vegetarianism/veganism at all, but equating the necessity to be polite at a host's dinner table with rape, especially after signing the Polanski petition, should get you some time in the corner to think about what you've done.
10/27/09
Great point. One of the best arguments for vegetarianism is that it is a progressive, ecologically sound practice. If the United States cut their meat consumption, there would be visible, lasting, and positive economic and ecological changes. Attacking meat-consumption from a moralist perspective just makes you sound superior and haughty. #natalieportman
10/27/09
10/27/09
the reason i think that making a moral argument is a bad idea in this case is because morals are personal and subjective and not shared universally or sometimes even amongst people who live within the same socio-political culture. you can't simply tell someone "this is morally bad" and expect them to take you at face value if it doesn't line up with their own moral compass. anytime you make a moralistic argument you risk sounding superior and haughty because you are assuming the righteous moral take, whether you're talking about eating meat or premartial sex.
you can, however, make a very strong ethical case as to why eating meat is ethically wrong and be a lot more effective. and part of that ethical reasoning can stem from the same base feelings as your personal moral conviction (it is unneccesary, it is cruel, etc), but instead focuses on what we should be doing in opposition to what we shouldn't be doing (the actions versus the beliefs) because ethics is the objective study of right versus wrong within society. morals are personal, ethics are social. ethical arguments are more effective, persuasive, and logical than moral arguments. you can hold a moral conviction and still make an ethical argument, but that is not what natalie portman did. she made a very simplistic moral argument.
and just so you know, im a vegetarian--for ethical reasons. #natalieportman
10/27/09
While we may disagree on what we put on our mouths we can all agree it's the individuals choice. But we can mostly all agree that rape and meat are not the same, except that rape is meant to take your power and make you feel like meat.
So Ms. Portman, go tell what you said to that 15y.o. girl who was gang-raped that we all read about here, a child two years older than your beloved Polanski's victim. Go tell her your glib blatherings. Then wipe her tears off with all the money it takes to be in a place to say such audacious bullshit.
/self-important rant over #natalieportman
10/27/09
I haven't shared a table with people eating meat in several years, and I prefer it that way. I'm not going to tell my friends, "if you're getting a burger, then I'm not eating with you," but it generally does ruin my whole meal. most of my friends are incredibly considerate in that they don't eat meat around me, and they warn me when they are going to buy it at the farmer's market. for me to demand that nobody in my social circle eat meat, that's a bit too much. my social circle would shrink overnight.
the boyfriend/fiance still eats carcass, and it's a big bone of contention. I'm giving him until I get my PhD to go vegetarian (before we get hitched). and even if he won't give it up completely, there will be no meat allowed in the house. I didn't think it would bother me, living with meat-eaters, until this fall. it bothers the shit out of me every single day when my roommates cook meat, and next week I'm checking out a vegetarian co-op to which I plan on moving once my lease is up for this place.
so while I don't necessarily agree that eating meat is equivalent to rape, I do think it's an excellent point of discussion. I'd rather say that if you don't condone a person committing violence against another person, then why the hell should you condone a person committing violence against an animal? especially a defenseless animal that can't fight back and whose life is ended purely for the enjoyment of man? I think if you saw someone kicking a dog, you'd intervene. but nobody wants to think about what happens to the cows and pigs and birds before they get on their plates. #natalieportman
10/27/09
this is like the argument i would have with my theology teacher in catholic high school every year: "so you're telling me the innocent child born into buddhism, who lives his life in a manner most catholics would find morally ok, has no chance at heaven because he wasn't "privleged" enough to be born into a catholic home?" he'd always say yes, and i would always laugh out loud and tell him my protestant butt is gonna really enjoy proving him wrong once inside the pearly gates.
10/27/09
10/27/09
i'm trying to discuss why this isn't a moral issue, but a social one. if we all had more access to those foods, then there would be more vegetarians/vegans, and your argument wouldn't seem so secondary to a truly horrifying food-availability problem we have throughout the world.
you know what would help? a small farmers market stand by the train station here, staffed by vegans and vegetarians, selling local produce with healthy recipe suggestions. produce would be cheap and much needed, and everyone can stand to eat more veg! how come i've never seen that?
10/27/09
10/27/09
10/27/09
I respect vegetarians and some of my absolute best friends are vegans as well, but I would like to believe that they don't judge my moral character because I genuinely enjoy the occasional well prepared steak.
Eating animals shouldn't be viewed as a crime in any respect, functioning as omnivores is a natural and understandable aspect of human existence, we have canine teeth for a reason, and that's rippin' apart flesh. Does our society consume too much meat? Absolutely. It this resource garnered all too often in a way that is detrimental to society and the animals? You bet. But is the consumption of meat for sustenance a morally reprehensible act? Certainly not.
If anything, this has me all the more curious about this week's Top Chef. #natalieportman
10/27/09
10/27/09
I would happily sit down to a meal with @heatstroke and @andromache for many of the reasons you laid out, even though (or perhaps because ) I'm a vegetarian. I don't refuse to eat with people of another religious, political, or cultural belief, so why would I do the same because of their choices in food? #natalieportman
10/27/09