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CherriSpryte
11/15/08

In reply to
I just got back from DC's protest - over 5,000 people were there, according to the organizers. It was pouring rain (there's a tornado watch, apparently?), and DC is variously shut down b/c of the G20 protests - still, it was a huge protest, ending up in Lafayette park (across from the White House), and was really inspiring and moving. Everyone I heard was talking about how you can't blame minorities - or any one group - for this, and we all need to unify. It was a really awesome event. :)
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newgirloldtown
11/15/08

In reply to
The rally in Portland was one block down from the Farmer's Market, so there were a ton of families milling around. It's a rare non-rainy weekend day in Portland, so the turnout seemed pretty good! It's nice to know there is so much love and happiness around, despite the recent setbacks.
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Don't Get It Twisted (don't take mah starhhh!)
11/15/08

@newgirloldtown: just got back from this. The sound system was so bad! I couldn't hear hardly anything! So I just held my glittery, "Can I Vote on Your Marriage Now?" sign and smiled.

ps: loved the weather!
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stevienixxx
11/15/08

In reply to
i just got back from the one in my town- chico, ca. we are a pretty small city and there was over 400 people there! it was very peaceful, lots of awesome speakers, and then we marched through downtown. lovely.
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Jenloveshercurves
11/15/08

@stevienixxx: I was there too!
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so5minutesago
11/15/08

In reply to
I'm ready to get shit on this one, but I'm not sure protesting is the right course of action. The people of california (influenced heavily by the Mormon church, but still) voted to ban same-sex marriage. These rallies are protesting legislation that everyone got to vote on, and that passed by a pretty error-proof margin. Instead of protesting, GLBTA peeps need to regroup and look at their legal options. Protesting is just going to make people scared of the 'militant' gays. It's a really bad PR move.
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whats_in_a_name
11/15/08

@so5minutesago: Just because more people support one site of an argument doesn't mean that it's the right side or that the minority should be quiet about their disapproval. If that was the case slavery would still be legal, there wouldn't have been any civil rights movement, or women's rights movement.
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so5minutesago
11/15/08

@whats_in_a_name: That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that politics is all about bringing people over to your side (as cynical as that might sound). The pro-prop 8 group did a great job of that. They convinced people that the gay and pro-gay community were a bunch of scary people targeting their kids. And you know that the news coverage of these rallies is going to focus on the few people with signs about turning people gay or whatever. The stereotype will be perpetuated. But if the gay community can mount a strong offense and a cohesive message, maybe advertise on television, get spokespeople to go on the news shows while the lawyers are trying to figure out the best way to get Prop 8 knocked down, it will no longer be "those scary gays are trying to shove their sexuality down our throats." People will warm to the message of equality, it just has to be presented in the right way.

(Oh, and I'm not against all protests. Far from it. I just think in this case it's not the best idea.)
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Jenloveshercurves
11/15/08

@so5minutesago: Did you see a protest? I have been to a couple and mostly they are people that are mourning the loss of their rights. Today's protest in my home in Chico, CA was particularly interesting because it was mainly straight and gay couples marching in our downtown with their children. It was illustrating that their families don't share the values of hate and exclusion. I think largely people are coming out to illustrate, "Hey I have values too. Those values include love and tolerance. My family is also important and deserves recognition." As some anti-prop 8 commercials pointed out, only around 30% of California's children grow up in a two parent household where there is a mother and father. The other 70% of children growing up in California deserve to have their family valued just as much as the "traditional" ones. I think another issue with this is that the LGBT community and allies were not vocal enough. They thought that by playing nice, they would win. Ultimately those fighting for prop-8 played dirty and into people's most homophobic core. We should have been more vocal to illustrate how many of us do not support hate.
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The One
11/15/08

In reply to
Why is there an anti-Prop 8 rally in NYC? We didn't vote against it. Hell, we didn't vote on it at all, but I still had a hard time getting down Broadway a little while ago.
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haguenite
11/15/08

@The One: Because some people want to show solidarity with their country(wo)men. It's called empathy and standing up for what you believe in, and is more important than your convenience.
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hellosunshine
11/15/08

@The One: Solidarity.
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The One
11/15/08

@haguenite: @hellodarling loves president obama!!!: Whatever. It just seemed pointless to have all these anti-Prop8 signs when WE NEVER VOTED ON IT.

And as someone who does support gay marriage, it's probably not a good idea to piss me off with pointless inconveniences like getting jostled and nearly missing an appointment.
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Kater Tot
11/15/08

@The One: While I understand the inconvenience, the symbolic protest of Prop 8 (since a. California is a "bellweather state" and b. the right for same-sex couples to marry was actively TAKEN AWAY after being granted) relates to the overall national debate on the issue, and a cursory search of New York's same-sex marriage laws isn't exactly promising [en.wikipedia.org] even if there isn't an outright ban... so far.

I protested in Madison, WI - the state has a same-sex marriage ban written into its Constitution, which I voted against. I walked in our protest march because I find the state ban to be in violation of civil rights (and since it's a football Saturday, all of the homophobic assholes from the rural areas came into town to watch the Badger game), because my friends who DID marry in California now have their marriage called into question, and because I was at San Francisco's City Hall the first day they handed out marriage licenses. Seeing all of the long-term couples with children, all of whom had to fight for that while those who abuse their spouses and children don't have to is enough to make me think that "traffic inconvenience," no matter where one lives, is pretty petty a concern by comparison, even if you don't live in California.
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haguenite
11/15/08

@The One: I've a feeling the LGBTQ community wouldn't terribly mind if they had to do without your vote.

Boo. Fucking. Hoo.

When your civil rights are trampled on, THEN you can complain. Implying that LGBTQs should be grateful for your bitching and moaning, because you wouldn't vote against taking their rights away is just wrong.
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The One
11/15/08

@haguenite: Are you the official spokesman/woman for the LGBTQ community?

I wonder what they think of having a charmer such as you speaking for them, and doing your best to repel people.

Can you stop screeching and spewing spittle all over the place long enough to point out where exactly I said that they "should be grateful for [my] bitching and moaning"? Because "implying" doesn't count, as you are an obnoxious asshole who is looking for a fight.

Since you are stupid enough to need a clue, I'll give you one: NYC is already rather gay-friendly, so pulling this in downtown NYC doesn't do anything but piss off people who are already on your side and don't need any education or whatever.

But if you keep insulting and trying to pick fights with enough people, maybe you can turn off enough and get them to no longer support you.
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haguenite
11/15/08

@The One: Taking this pissing contest out of here and into your messages.
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The One
11/15/08

@haguenite: Not interested. You're too obnoxious and hateful to have any kind of sane discussion, and I don't need your vileness in my messages.

I'll just leave you with something to consider: How many times has gay marriage been on the ballot in various states? And how many times has it passed? Not at all, if I remember correctly. Perhaps you should look into the approach that you are taking and how you are coming across to people -- both those who support it and those who don't -- because what you're doing now isn't working.
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The One
11/15/08

@haguenite: I was quite clear in expressing my wish to NOT have contact with you, but you still felt it necessary to spew your hatred on my message page.

Knock off the harassment.
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The One
11/15/08

@Kater Tot: Good points. Thank you for making them in a nice and sane manner.

As for your friends who married in California, I heard that their marriages will almost certainly still stand as valid (they'll be grandfathered in, like when the drinking age rose from 18 to 21).
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haguenite
11/15/08

@The One: Yes, we get it. I'm insaaaaaaaane! Loony! Move on.
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The One
11/15/08

@haguenite: Yes, you are nuts. Almost makes me wonder if you're some right-wingnut bent on turning people against gays, with your obnoxious, over-the-top confrontational style.

I guarantee that I've done more to change people's minds on this issue than you have, just by talking respectfully to them and appealing to their sense of fairness, instead of insulting them and acting like a nutjob.
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kelsium
11/15/08

In reply to
I'm going to the one in my town! My anger has been steadily growing over this since it happened. This is not something that anyone should be forced to come to terms with. It is wrong.
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musicpup
11/15/08

In reply to
There's no protesting going on in my area of Germany, but they will be in my thoughts. I hope this will accomplish something!
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LunaLLena
11/15/08

In reply to
Yesterday I saw people protesting as I was driving to work, it made me really happy until I saw someone holding a, "Mormons took away my rights" sign. Blaming people isn't going to fix this, protest and changing minds is.
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Kilotwat
11/15/08

@Monsita: I disagree completely. The Mormon church mounted a full out, international campaign to affect an election. They've completely violated their tax-exempt status. They need to be held liable, if not by the IRS, then at least in the public eye. Doing so will discourage them and other churches from unfairly meddling in elections from now on, which will go a long way in ensuring gay rights for all.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
11/15/08

@Kilotwat: Serious question: what will it take to get their tax-exempt status lifted? Does the IRS have to take up the cause, or does it come from Congress, or what?
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Kilotwat
11/15/08

@TheFormerJuneBronson: It has to come from the IRS. Mind you, the IRS has pretty much rolled over for even modestly sized religious organizations. For instance, the Church of Scientology actually broke into IRS offices, and the IRS still granted them tax-exemption. With the immense political clout the Mormon church has, there is virtually no chance of their tax-exemption being removed. However, they can and hopefully will be pressured into curbing their campaign activities. They can be investigated by the IRS, and various local government agencies. They can be audited. All this would be uncomfortable for the church, as well it should be.
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bigleggedwoman
11/15/08

@Kilotwat: Right. Agitprop, anyone? Start a fucking discussion!
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bigleggedwoman
11/15/08

@TheFormerJuneBronson: I have a hunch that a lot of IRS employees are Mormon and there would be serious resistance.

LDS is everywhere. Vegas: they don't approve of drinking but they will take your money while you drink.
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bigleggedwoman
11/15/08

@Kilotwat: You stated it better than I could, and I agree. There will have to be a 'concerted effort' over time.
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hellosunshine
11/15/08

In reply to
If you're in/near Monterey, please please please go to this one, because one of my absolute favorite people is the organizer!

[jointheimpact.wetpaint.com]
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bigleggedwoman
11/15/08

@hellodarling loves president obama!!!: Greetings from Ventura! Wish we could be there - but go get 'em!
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hellosunshine
11/15/08

@bigleggedwoman: Unfortunately, I'm in NYC, so I'm sending him lots of good energy!
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NefariousNewt
11/15/08

@bigleggedwoman: Same here. Can't attend today, but will be there in spirit!!!
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