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New York, 5:19 PM
Mon Nov 9
52 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/26/09
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Those who go take the Birthright trips generally tend to already be more religious than other Jews, and more religious Jews are more likely to marry within the faith than non-religious Jews. #birthrighttrips
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@Tchotchke: Hahaha - skank you very much! I figured it was dated but have heard it perpetuated by many of my Jewish friends - and then only because they'd heard it from someone, most likely a parent or relative. Thanks for the clarification! #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
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The books that I have read on Jewish conversion, and what a Rabbi told me, concerned the question of genetics and how it was more practical to use the mother as a means of classification. But! I am sure that isn't the whole picture. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
Kids can be such dicks, and it sucks when they pick attitudes up from their parents and repeat 'em. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
My tribe which lived in East Africa forever was indeed Jewish at a certain point and I am oddly, Jewish, in terms of Genetics. Which for the fucked up racist Western issues I add.
I learned this because of participating in a medical study that involved in this. [en.wikipedia.org]
And if my wonky heritage can cure this, more power. I just try to balance it with Ethiopian Jews who have gotten the shaft.
10/27/09
The result is people reducing Middle Eastern politics to a football match. #birthrighttrips
10/27/09
10/27/09
@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: That's why I prefer not to tell people that I converted, though it can be hard to keep it a secret. It's no one's business if I'm "Jewish enough". If I had been born Jewish, but was still exactly as observant as I am now, it would be all good. But as a convert, people who are more observant can often be a bit judgy. :-/ #birthrighttrips
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10/26/09
Most Jews who enter inter-faith marriages don't stay Jewish, which is why these programs exist in the first place. Everyone has the right to practice and maintain their cultue (I come from an inter-faith family, and have grown to understand the importance of this right through firsthand experience.) #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
Also, the article says that 60% of intermarried Jews in the Boston area are raising their children Jewish. #birthrighttrips
10/27/09
Where I'm from, many Jews are turning away from Judaism just to fit in with non-Jewish relatives or circles. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
The trip itself was amazing, considering it was free, but I didn't like the people I met very much. They were very cliquey and kind of stuck-up and they took Judaism so seriously that it kind of creeped me out (could be just my trip though, it was a Hillel group) . My father is not Jewish, but my mother's parents were Orthodox and I was kind of raised Reform, and nothing about my experience thus far as a Jew really applied to that sort of atmosphere. The parts I found most creepy were the speeches at the end where they talked about "Jew haters" and the pamphlet someone gave me called "Why Marry Jewish."
With that said, four years later I am seriously dating a nice Jewish boy and have started taking my faith more seriously. Anecdotally, I have heard that many people who went on Birthright came back and became more religious/broke up with their bf or gf. One girl I heard broke up with her Jewish boyfriend because he wasn't religious enough for her.
I think that besides the proselytizing, being in an environment where you can see and meet so many Jews who embrace and celebrate Judaism sends a very powerful subliminal message. A lot of Jews are the product of a diaspora who grew up without a sense of religious community, or the pressure of social conformity, so they began to see Judaism as out-of-date and backwards, especially the part about marrying within the faith. Bagels and lox and making fun of your grandma aren't enough to keep you from marrying someone you love. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
10/26/09
Yeah, I'm sure I would have had a very different experience on a different trip. For one thing, a lot of people on my trip knew each other already because it was a university Hillel group and I had never set foot in the building until the trip.
Sadly, I'm 26 now so I think I missed the cut off for future trips :( #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
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Actually, the fact that I heard so much about Israel growing up and then my first trip there was so odd...it made me sad that I couldn't have had more of an "organic" experience. I mean, they wouldn't let us leave the hotel at night and we had to sit around having kind of psychobabble group discussions about Judaism. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
I had the "Don't marry non-Jews" message grilled into me in Hebrew school and it made me really uncomfortable. My teachers and my mom didn't understand my objections. When I said that it was equivalent to saying "don't marry non-whites," my teacher responded that I could find black Jews. When my brother got engaged to a Christian, he felt the need to sit down with my parents and reassure them that they weren't bad Jewish parents because of it.
I figured that if I dated a Jew, it would be because I'm passionate about my religion and involved in Jewish programs, both attending and leading, so my chances of dating a Jewish guy would be statistically higher. It worked--I met my boyfriend last year at a Hillel event. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
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I've been a practicing Jew my entire life, had a bat mitzvah, am an active member of my congregation. I could not be more culturally and religiously Jewish, yet Israel does not recognize me as a Jew--solely on the basis of bloodlines. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
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It's like telling me I need to apply for US citizenship when I was born here and so were the past 5 generations of my family.
10/27/09
10/26/09
I will now share my favorite graffiti that I see around Tel Aviv: "Make beautiful babies; marry an Arab!" #birthrighttrips
10/27/09
That is my icon. and also my favorite graffiti/life motto.
(A close second, although it was actually a sticker- 'lama lo beivrit', written out in English letters. My friend stole it from outside the column that music store on Sheinkin. I died.) #birthrighttrips
10/27/09
10/27/09
I just reread my previous comment. I fail at grammar. #birthrighttrips
10/27/09
A choice convo at the store:
(After telling the dude that my friend's dad, who she was buying a CD for, likes the musical Hair): "Hair, what are you talking about, pubic hair? Just choose a goddamn CD already! What's your problem?"
I love him. #birthrighttrips
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What people are bothered by is that there is an educational/cultural group that pushes in group marriage. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
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Also, do you honestly, truly believe that people in other religions don't encourage/force/kindly suggest that their kids marry others in the same group? Have you been living under a rock?
10/26/09
Then again, I might be totally biased because I come from a interracial and interfaith marriage (parents from completely different cultures) and I've loved every moment of it and cherish all the traditions. Plus my relatives have never said anything negative to my parents about their marriage even though they come from traditional and religious backgrounds.
If some one criticizes white people for being against interracial marriage, it doesn't mean their argument is invalid just because there are plenty of black people who are also against interracial marriage. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
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I can understand why someone would want to marry someone within their religion - faith is important to a lot of people, and the idea of marrying within the faith is by no means unique to Judaism. I think the problem is the combination of marry in the faith + dwindling population (you think the Jews have it bad, you should check out the numbers for the Parsis!)
So, really, it's more about keeping a community intact or even growing. If that's the case, why limit your options to someone in the community when you can bring in some new blood, and make the world your dating pool?
Or as they say in Utah, you gotta flirt to convert.
Hey - if it works for the Mormons, I say give it a shot.
No seriously - in the mind of your average LDS guy or gal in Utah, the fact that the nice young man/young lady you have your eye on happens to be a gentile is not going to stop you from your dream Temple wedding - au contraire, it's up to you to use your charms to bring them to the light.
Converting to French Canadian is a bit of a long shot (it is a complicated ritual involving maple syrup, hockey sticks, and a tub of poutine. I personally am unqualified to administer it - I think it's because I'm a Leafs fan - but I digress) but converting to Judaism is, for some people, a realistic option (some sects are more accepting of converts than others, I realize that) and could address both the relatively small dating pool for the marriage-minded AND help counter the problem of declining numbers.
(And seriously, talking of LDS conversion, I knew people who converted, not because their significant other wanted to raise their kids LDS - which they could do regardless - but because their significant other wanted a Temple wedding - which their own relatives would be unable to attend. Anyway)
I'm not saying the Jews should start sending off their young men to bring in new souls (not that I would object if some cute Jewish boys showed up at my door, arr arr) but maybe the concept of marrying within the community could be augmented with the option of bringing someone new into the community. But, this would also involve a conscious effort to be welcoming and accepting of converts, and treat them as equals to anyone else in the community. #birthrighttrips
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I don't think intermarriage risks a second Holocaust. I generally agree with Arendt that the isssues that lead to genocide have little to do with the race, religion or culture of the scapegoated. Also, in Nazi Germany, intermarriage was protective. Intermarried Jews had a very high survival rate and many managed to make it through the whole war openly living in Germany.
The fact that Birthright includes completely non-religious Jews makes it more ethnically based than religiously based. Its a little like if some Irish organization was giving free trips to Belfast in the 80s to encourage marrying Irish people and supporting the IRA. Obviously the IRA and the Israeli government aren't really comparable and the the situation in Northern Ireland had a significant religious component, but its the closest situation I can come up with.
On the religious side, the article actually says that in Boston, intermarried couples were more likely to raise their kids Jewish than anything else (60%). I'm also not so sure the majority culture is the reason so many intermarried Jews do not raise Jewish children. Up until fairly recently, intermarriage was so frowned upon that intermarried children weren't welcomed. There is still an element of this- I just heard of a wedding between a man who was raised Modern Orthodox and a non-Jewish woman- half his family refused to come to the justice of the peace wedding, her entire family was supportive. I would be surprised if whatever children they have are raised Jewish since the whole incident must have been very alienating. Also, if you're intermarrying you're probably not super religious to begin with.
As for the co-mingling of cultures- its inevitable. Judaism has already been influenced by other cultures. Food is an obvious example- a lot of what is considered Jewish- bagels, lox, challah, etc. is related to what gentiles were eating in Eastern Europe.
I don't think Birthright is evil, but I do think there is an off putting undercurrent. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
Maybe I'm stupid, but I was shocked! My boyfriend is Jewish, and he says that this is what these trips are "for"... I really don't want to believe that, but it's hard to ignore! #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
I can understand why someone would want to keep their religion and cultural heritage alive, but if you yourself aren't connected with Judaism beyond blood, why would it matter if your wife was Jewish/raised your children Jewish? Forgive me if this sounds patronizing; it's an honest question. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
Just look at Glee. Any other race or culture and it would be incredibly racist. Because Puck's a Jew it's funny.
10/27/09
10/26/09
We even had a group "Judaic Activity" where we had index cards with life aspirations and had to put them in order of priority. Every group but mine put, "marry a jew" or "raise my children jewish" at the top. It got very heated. Kids were saying that, even if they met and fell in love with someone outside the faith, it could never be serious. Fucking infuriating. Not because I seem to attract ex-Catholics, but because it seems absurd to limit your heart to happiness for any reason.
And don't even get me started on their views on homosexuality. There were two lovely boys on my trip who kept their relationship secret so they could share rooms as a couple. I was one of a handful who knew about their ruse and it made me so proud that they were giving a big fuck you to the program.
But hey, this spiritual agnostic got a free trip to a gorgeous country by virtue of the religion of her mom's vagina, so I can't complain can I?
10/26/09
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I'm also going to go ahead and say I am not knocking the program or anyone who goes on it. what I hear about the program is generally very positive. I apologize if I offend anyone.
10/26/09
If you're thinking of going, go on the progressive political trip. I don't remember the name of the company, but... google it? #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
10/26/09
I have at this point aged myself out of the program. I did decide a while ago that I was not going to go to Israel before there was a resolution to the conflict, though. I did try to explain this to a Birthright alum and I might as well have told him I eat babies. He just couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to go on Birthright/to Israel. I was trying to explain my position very politely and he still walked away from me in mid conversation.
10/26/09
Can I hug you. Because that made me laugh so hard, having literally had the same conversations with friends who as teens went on these trips.
And even ignoring Palestine, I do have to give a holla to my Ethiopian Jewish peeps who are currently suffering some serious discrimination and strife in Israel, which oddly never was mentioned to my friends during the (~25 people) trips. #birthrighttrips
10/26/09
I can only speak for my trip, but we definitely discussed the conflict and the many contradictions inherent in the land of Israel. Did the organizers have an agenda to push? Of course, but the trips are offered to encourage young Jews to be advocates for Israel and to propagate Judaism (by having babies.)
I also have to disagree that the trip participants are screened and selected based on how receptive they would be to the message. I know unaffiliated, half-Jews that were selected and synagogue-going, full Jews that were wait-listed. If anything they would be more likely to select the unaffiliated, as they are the ones who the organization wants to reach the most.
It might seem unbelievable that a ten day vacation could be life-changing, but it certainly was for me. After my trip, I decided to return to Israel and am currently working on my master's and studying Hebrew and Arabic. I wasn't brainwashed, but my trip really made me want to explore this beautiful, tragic and often infuriating part of the world. #birthrighttrips
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10/27/09
I personally like to travel to areas of conflict, but that's just me! #birthrighttrips
10/27/09
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