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How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
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topsy
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
Prince was always a combination of the sacred and the profane. I thought that everyone knew that; he's mentioned God in his music from the very beginning. His message was that sex wasn't dirty and bad; it was a gift from God. I'd heard about Larry Graham pouncing on him but I didn't realize that it had gone that far. Mr Nelson is welcome to knock on my door any damn time he pleases. I'll be alright because I'm the daughter of the woman who is so into Christian doctrine that Jehovah Witnesses deliberately AVOIDED our house. I once saw an more experienced solicitor wave off an obvious newbie who was innocently walking up our driveway, Watchtower in hand.

Oh and Prince still has the sexy! 'Somewhere Here on Earth? Goddamn!!
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Red-headed bookworm
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
Hey! People, Jehovah's Witnesses aren't freaks and not everyone believes exactly the same thing. It's like all other religions...some of the people who read this site happen to be members of that religion. I'm not sure when it became cool to have an entire post bashing a religion on this site.
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Brigit
11/17/08

@Red-headed bookworm: We've bashed aspects of other religious sects before and pretty harshly as well. Religious institutions are social groups that are, and should, be open to criticism. Any form of bigotry found within them is a legitimate reason to call them out.

I understand that when one forms part of a group and the group is criticized one might feel personally attacked/criticized.

However, what is being criticized is the result of various people within the group fomenting an environment in which bigotry is allowed.

Examples: Catholicism and rapey priests (all Catholics I know want those fuckers in jail or worse), and Mormons and homophobes (when again, most Mormons I know are not homophobes).
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Red-headed bookworm
11/17/08

@Brigit: Criticism is one thing but I don't remember another post where the post as well as the comments were free reign to make jokes at the expense of an entire religion.

However, what is being criticized is the result of various people within the group fomenting an environment in which bigotry is allowed.

Examples: Catholicism and rapey priests (all Catholics I know want those fuckers in jail or worse), and Mormons and homophobes (when again, most Mormons I know are not homophobes)

That criticism is fine. What I am having an issue with is the fact that Jessica felt it fine to make a post poking fun at a religious view and all the posters seem to think it's fine to make fun of the religion in general, rather than criticize some of the members. And, I don't know if sect is a good description. It tends to have negative connotations.
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VivaNashvegas
11/17/08

@Red-headed bookworm: I think it's not so much the religious views per se, as most people have no idea what beliefs JWs hold, at all.

I'd say it's more the door-to-door proselytizing that's the bone of contention with the faith.

As to Prince, it's the apparent dissonance between his apparent homophobic views (as quoted) and his long history of androgeny and openness as expressed in his music.
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Red-headed bookworm
11/17/08

@VivaNashvegas: So it's cool to poke fun at things you don understand? That's the issue I have here. I cannot think of or find any other post on here where a religion was open to such criticism and poking fun, especially when most people don't know much about it.

And yeah, I know people don't like the door to door thing but we aren't the only ones who do it. Our view is that Jesus said to go make disciples, hence going to people's doors.

As for Prince I do agree his views now are at odds with his past and while yes, our religion does have a more conservative view, I will say that people don't always say things the best. What I hear at church is that it's not out place to judge anyone, it's God's. That's what I apply. I don't condemn anyone for their actions. It's up to God to determine what's in their hearts. I go with the "love your neighbor" thing and leave it at that.
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Jessi Ramsey
11/17/08

@Red-headed bookworm: [jezebel.com]

Here is a past post on religion that sparked a very critical discussion of all religious beliefs.
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Red-headed bookworm
11/17/08

@Jessi Ramsey: Yeah, I remember that one. I think the real thing that bothers me is tone of Jessica's post and how it allows everyone else to comment. That post you linked was written a bit more respectfully of religion in general. The comments here are kind of disrespectful but I expect the Jezebel writers to be more respectful of things. Would they write a post like this or allow these comments about Catholics or Muslims?
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Brigit
11/18/08

@Red-headed bookworm: Yes they have written sharp criticisms about those religious groups:

Islam

[jezebel.com]

[jezebel.com]

Catholicism

[jezebel.com]

[jezebel.com]!/how-does-the-church-pay-for-all-those-boys-it-molested-evict-the-nuns-307150.php

Atheists

[jezebel.com]

Buddhism

[jezebel.com]

Not to mention the countless articles during the FLDS raid, and very, very sharp criticism over the Mormon Church action/inaction.

Of course some criticism is warranted, while some of it is totally uncalled for, but it's certainly not out of the ordinary.
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Red-headed bookworm
11/18/08

@Brigit: THanks for the links. I was trying to find examples. And Muslims on those posts complained about the bashing of Muslims. I just get tired of the bashing of pretty much all religions on this board. It's like religion is open to any and all criticisms or poking fun or sterotypes that would get you disemvoweled if you did it about a race, sex or sexual preference. It seems like a double-standard. I'm done saying anything on this post.
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MadameO asks - WWOD?
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
Purple one's posse say that the interviewer got it all wrong, that Purple is actually tolerant and he was refering to the love that jesus said to spread around. TAFKAP [the artist formerly known as prince] can spread that love ALL over me any day - PLEASE knock on my door!
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lalaland13
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
Anyone else remember him doing the Super Bowl halftime show a couple years ago? I have to say, that was pretty awesome. And, in hindsight, the phallic guitar was obviously part of God's plan.

I doubt he was misquoted. Not that badly. You generally don't get to work at the New Yorker by being a sloppy quoter.
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Raspberry Swirly
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
When my mom was pregnant with me, she went to go see Purple Rain in the theatres, and I apparently kicked more than I ever had before throughout the whole thing and especially during the songs. And now, I know all the words to that soundtrack, and I don't even remember seeing the movie in full until maybe two years ago. Prince has powers, y'all.

I come from a family of Witnesses and I can say, this line of thought is not at all uncommon. Coming from Prince, though, it's a bit depressing.
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NefariousNewt
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
My first wife was an ex-JW. Most of her family had been at one time, but they got out, except for one brother who remained devout. Had an aunt who was one as well. Well-meaning people in their own way, but they take all the fun out of being Christian.
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Penny_Esq
11/17/08

@NefariousNewt, Serving at the Pleasure of the President-Ele...: Seriously! No holidays! No birthdays! What a miserable childhood.
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Raspberry Swirly
11/17/08

@Penny_Esq: YES WE DID!!!: Don't forget no Halloween. Although, because my family is made up of hypocrites, to get around the no holidays/birthdays thing, they just chose not to call the day what it technically is and would just conveniently gather to exchange presents and eat big meals.
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Brigit
11/17/08

@Penny_Esq: YES WE DID!!!: I know! My aunt didn't let my cousins have birthdays and it totally confused me as a kid. At the time it just seemed ... mean.
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hamburgerhotdog
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
I don't think Prince has always been as good to the ladies as you might want to believe. Just ask Wendy and Lisa, who once said "Prince would get on my case for not dressing right - at home wearing jeans was cool but in Minneapolis it was like 'farm time'."
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hamburgerhotdog
11/17/08

@hamburgerhotdog: meant to add he's sort of always been a lot more closed minded towards sexual attitudes and very sort of gender role/patriarchal. I mean, the man made his first wife refer to him as "the artist" and wait on him.

There was an article in Bitch a couple months ago about him that I liked quite a bit.
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lilydancing
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
this irritates me in the same way that anne rice's recent conversion irritates me, but this is more hilariously ridiculous
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Brigit
11/17/08

@lilydancing: Whaa.. et tu Anne Rice?
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Penny_Esq
11/17/08

@Brigit: She's not JW, she's just all Jesus-y.
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haguenite
11/17/08

@Brigit: She is Jesus.
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Brigit
11/17/08

@haguenite: Oh fuck. I'm glad I stopped reading her a few years back, but still. I just feel so disappointed.

To each his own I guess :(
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vixenatrix
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
As they say, there's no prude like an old whore.
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The Harlot Queen Likes The Word Strumpet
11/17/08

@vixenatrix: Holy Crap, my grandmother used to say that...about my aunt...who married the Baptist minister.
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Brigit
11/17/08

@Athaliah: Ha! That always kills me.
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Macloserboy
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
I said this earlier on Gawker, this a result of Larry Graham pouncing on him after the death of child. If Tom Cruise had been there he'd be a Scientologist right now. If it were Madonna, it'd be Kaballah. If it'd been me, tequila would be his god.
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Brigit
11/17/08

@Macloserboy: We can all mourn the fact that you didn't find him first. Tequila is as good a god as any.
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TriedandTrue
11/17/08

@Macloserboy: I didn't know you and I went to the same church!?!?
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MadameO asks - WWOD?
11/17/08

@Macloserboy: Interesting - I am a sponge for all Prince knowledge. I feel sad that his only child died.
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morninggloria
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
Ah, so it's the ol' life of debauchery and use your waning years to repent trick huh?
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lizzzz
11/17/08

@morninggloria: Whoever thought my dad and Prince would have something in common after all!
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Brigit
11/17/08

@lizzzz: Wait, are you my sister?
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lizzzz
11/17/08

@Brigit: It is entirely possible.
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Penny
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
JWs scare the shit out of me. They always come to my door. This is an ignorant question but I am curious....does this religion disproportionately attract Black people?
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KittenFluff
11/17/08

@Archetype: One of the temps at my old job was a JW and handed out pamphlets in the Union Square station in the mornings before work. I used to try to sneak by her so she wouldn't see me, and would always make sure to get on a different subway car.
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pandorasmittens
11/17/08

@Archetype: I think it depends where one is geographically. A good friend of mine was raised a witness (she eventually abandoned it for a UU church, though) and I would go with her to different Kingdom Halls when we were in college. Depending on the town, or even neighborhood we were in, it was sometimes disproportionately black or white. That's only a personal experience though, so there could be something I don't know.
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Brigit
11/17/08

@Archetype: Some of my family is JW, but we're 'Rican and mixed as heck.

Nowadays I just get pamphlets in my apartment's laundry facility and have fun correcting all the silly creobot stuff with the scientifically accurate version. I also write in links to educational science sites.

I hate misinformation/miseducation.
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HarpMadness
11/17/08

@Archetype: Actually, one of the few good things I can say about the JWs is that they are very non-racist as a religion. My dad ended up being one and one of the big draws for him was that he could go to their services and see African-American families sitting there with white families and it was just the way it was.
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Raspberry Swirly
11/17/08

@Archetype: Not really. Just depends on where you live.
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PhDork
11/17/08

@Archetype: There's a Kingdom Hall just down the street from my apartment, and the neighborhood is mostly Puerto Rican and Dominican, so that's the demo here. The JWs I knew growing up were all white, but I grew up in a pretty white place. They seem to be kind people, but I do NOT want to talk about Jesus with anyone.
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hfree
11/17/08

@Archetype: My ex used to live next door to a Kingdom Hall on the Upper East Side. I was always impressed not only with the racial diversity of the congregation but also the socio-economic diversity. You would see all kinds going in there.
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BeckySharper
11/17/08

@Archetype: The JWs were very active in the English-speaking Carribean countries, so on some islands--Barbados is one--the JWs are the largest denomination. So that accounts for a lot of black JWs. (I know this b/c I live in a West Indian neighborhood and the JWs are at our subway stations and in our apt. buildings literally every week).
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Brigit
11/17/08

@BeckySharper: They're a pretty big group in Puerto Rico, which is mostly Spanish-speaking.

There's even an offshoot of Pentecostalism called Mitas, although Catholicism is the most common Christian denomination.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
This is what it sounds like when doves cry.
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pandorasmittens
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
So Prince's new album?

1. Watchin U With My Watchtower

2. Awake

3. I'm Writing You a Kingdom Hallmark Card of Love

4. Go Forth, All Ye Witnesses

5. Last Christmas was a Sham

6. 144,000 Keys to Heaven
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morninggloria
11/17/08

@pandorasmittens: Newfound religious fervor gives a whole new, creepily Christlike meaning to "I Would Die 4 U."
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
11/17/08

@morninggloria: Wow.
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BeSarcastic
11/17/08

@morninggloria: Prince has said before that "I Would Die 4 U" is actually about Jesus (as he intended it way back when).
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TexasCrude
11/17/08

@BeSarcastic: That is my favorite Prince song and I just now realize that it is indeed about Jesus. I have been listening to a song about Jesus. Non stop. For the last year.

Trickery.
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morninggloria
11/17/08

@TexasCrude: Jesus Christ.

I mean that as an exclamation of frustration.
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Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
11/17/08

@BeSarcastic: Dude!!!

I just googled the lyrics. That song is totes 'bout Jesus. STFU!?!

Now, I'm inclined to review his whole catalog. That should only take about 2 years.
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BeSarcastic
11/17/08

@TexasCrude: @morninggloria: @ULookinAtMyJunk is the Hate Mitigator: I'm ashamed of (possibly) ruining the song for you all.
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Old No.7
11/17/08

In reply to How Prince Went From "P*ssy Control" To Puritanical Proselytizing
Does 'Darling Nikki' now masturbate with a copy of The Watchtower?
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TexasCrude
11/17/08

@Old No.7: She could NOT resist when she saw Little Jesus grind, I tell you.
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lizzzz
11/17/08

@Old No.7: Ha- well, he doesn't perform that one anymore, see because it's too dirty. Sigh.
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