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The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
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NefariousNewt
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
For some reason, I now cannot seem to reply to anyone, so to answer a few questions:

1) I'm not disrespecting Hillary. She had not held public office before she was elected either.

2) The "sour grapes" I mentioned were aimed at other politicians and pundits, not the general Jezebel population.

3) The idea that anyone could just "throw their hat in the ring" is ridiculous.

Wrong. Look at the qualifications for being Senator. They don't say anything about previous political experience being required. Look at the qualifications for President: simple as well. The Founding Fathers did not want the average American to be locked out of the political process, which would create an "in-bred" legislature. Anyone who is "qualified" should be able to run and/or be appointed to serve. No one votes on Supreme Court justices; they are appointed, and not by the people, but the people's elected representatives. Governor Paterson is the duly-elected representative of the people of New York; the NY Constitution gives him the power to make Senatorial appointments.

Does this mean that everyone. who applies will be considered. Of course not. But there's nothing that says even a person like myself cannot apply (except that I do not reside in NY).

4) She's a Kennedy, and while there is a mystique in her name, it is certainly not an automatic "get into office free" card.
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@NefariousNewt: You completely and apparently intentionally misread points 3 and 4, and answered what was not asked. I felt like calling you disingenuous was a little confrontational earlier, and felt kind of bad about doing so. No longer.
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NefariousNewt
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
@yvanehtnioj: It's not adoration, per se. Many of us are just tired of the griping over her announcing that she'd like to be considered. That's all it is -- asking the Governor to consider her. Why should it be a big deal? It's still on Governor Patterson's head to come up with the best fit for the position. She's just throwing her hat in the ring.
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braak
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
Also: Oh, man. Look at that puppy.
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suzannelb
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
PEOPLE WHO WERE PROMISED PUPPIES DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN:

1. Sasha Obama, 7

2. Malia Obama, 10

3. Joe Biden, 66

...as others have said before me, I really like the direction we're heading in, here.
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Saltine
12/16/08

@suzannelb: That totally makes me love Joe Biden even more, we all know the man is know Dan Quayle when it comes to experience so after having to deal with a VP that would shoot a puppy on sight, its nice to have a change of pace
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Jamie Sommers
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
I would really appreciate it if the Caroline Kennedy supporters here could answer a few questions for me.

What is her position on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?
What is her position on the bailout of Wall Street and the Big 3 automakers?
What is her position on abortion?
What is her position on health care?
What is her position on immigration reform?
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@Jamie Sommers: Seriously. This is why it's more important for an appointed person to have a political background than an elected person -- we can't vet this person! We have no record to evaluate. Especially given that one of her admirable qualities is apparently the ability to stay off the radar.

I'm not saying she'd suck, I'm just saying where's all this adoration coming from?
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NefariousNewt
12/16/08

@Jamie Sommers: Hopefully the positions her constituents hold on those issues would be more important than hers. A Senator is supposed to work for the people after all. But you have a valid point; there's still much we don't know. Again, it's up to Governor Patterson -- he has plenty of qualified candidates and I'm sure he'll make a good choice.
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emilyanne
12/16/08

@Jamie Sommers: I have no idea about her position on most of them but I feel pretty confident in saying that she has in the past publically supported Teddy Kennedy's health care plan and that during her public education fund raising stuff she repeatedly referenced the need for free health care in society. Admittedly this is in my mind from way back when I had to cover a couple of speaches she gave on the education front but I think that's right.

I would suspect her abortion position is similar to Biden and Kerrys but I have no evidence to prove that one.
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badmutha
12/16/08

@Jamie Sommers: She wrote a book on the right to privacy, which is the arguement presented in Roe V Wade. She is a constitutional scholar, and backs healthcare reform. Don't know he ideas about the war.
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yellow_dog
12/16/08

@yvanehtnioj: It's not up to you to "vet" her. Let the Governor do his job. I think we can rely on him to do it honestly and with the best interests of the state and the country in mind.
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@yellow_dog: Well, she wants to be my Senator. The idea that I should STFU and not have an opinion is bizarre. Or should I just not have an opinion that doesn't line up with yours?
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yellow_dog
12/16/08

@yvanehtnioj: Go ahead and have an opinion. Send it to your Governor. He's the one who needs (wants) to hear it.
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@yellow_dog: I already have. I'm also allowed to have an opinion in a blog about the subject. Whether you (want) to hear it or not.
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SisterMaryMartha
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
Also, I have to say, I don't really understand how Caroline thinks it is acceptable to ask for the seat. Seriously. I have to believe there are other people more suited.
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emilyanne
12/16/08

@SisterMaryMartha: but then again she has as much right as Andrew Cuomo or anyone else to ask for it. I mean you can ask, doesn't mean you'll get it.
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NefariousNewt
12/16/08

@emilyanne: Precisely! Which is while all this angst and outrage is so misplaced. Look, she is a Kennedy; that's not going to change. But she is her own person, and she's made that clear over the years. If she wants top be considered, fine. If she doesn't get in, so what? Maybe then she'll start to work on getting elected to the position in 2010.
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sportz.star
12/16/08

@SisterMaryMartha: While anyone can have any opinion regarding who is best suited, she has to ask because it's an appointment. If she sat at home and wished really hard that she got the job, it's not likely that Paterson would assume the usually publicity shy Kennedy wanted to serve in public office.
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SisterMaryMartha
12/16/08

@emilyanne: You know who really goofed up on naming their kids? The Cuomos. Mario Jr. looks nothing like his dad, whereas- Andrew? WHOA.
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SisterMaryMartha
12/16/08

@sportz.star: You're missing my point. I don't think she should even consider herself for the role.
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badmutha
12/16/08

@SisterMaryMartha: Oh this is all about POWER. This is the bid to get the Kennedy's back in the game and get the Clinton's out. This is old school.
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stacyinbean
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
They are sending the cute puppeh off for 6 weeks of special puppeh training with a K-9 unit so he's going to be a hard ass. I hope Joe doesn't cry while he's gone. Also, the idea that a puppy is the VP's present, along with the President's daughter's present, makes me laugh. Joe Biden = 9 year old little girl?
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rosasparks
12/16/08

@stacyinbean: Joe Biden wanting a puppeh doesn't make me laugh. It makes me feel something else. Mmmm, mmm, mmmmm....
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badmutha
12/16/08

@rosasparks: Me too! I love it that the man is getting a puppeh. He wants to be normal.
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SisterMaryMartha
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
Could papers try any harder to bring back Camelot? IT'S DEAD, PEOPLE. DEAD.
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dianersb was bit by a zombie
12/16/08

@SisterMaryMartha: I'm not entirely sure it wasn't just a mirage to begin with.
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Shotrock
12/16/08

@SisterMaryMartha: No, it can't be DEAD! Camelot is the SIXTIES! WHEN THE BOOMERS WERE YOUNG! If it's DEAD that means they're OLD and the world has MOVED ON! Nooooooo!!!! If we can't reminisce/argue/rehash the Sixties ad infinitum, what will the Boomers ever talk about?

Christ, have a special election. Then her campaign slogan can be:

Elect Caroline Kennedy and Save a Boomer's Sole Conversation Topic For Another Decade Or So.
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SisterMaryMartha
12/16/08

@Shotrock: Elect Caroline Kennedy and Revive Your Dreams of Great Success. Just Squint and Imagine It's JFK Up There.
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rosasparks
12/16/08

@Shotrock: Because as we all know, every Boomer who existed in the 60's was a radical changeaholic and was just activisting every second of the day.

It couldn't possibly be that Boomers dropped the ball, at so many levels, and must revisit history in order to stay relevent. Um, I grew up in the 80's so they can STFU.
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SisterMaryMartha
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
OMG, Megan- CUTENESS with a touch of hope! That's the way to start off a Tuesday.
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arodriguez.romero
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
there was a copy cat shoe thrower this morning in the news in NYC.

Here's an obscure musical reference La Lupe (in the background on "watermelon man") used to throw shoes in her act.
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Brigit
12/16/08

@arodriguez.romero: and take her wig and nails off!! That woman was all sorts of awesome and crazy!
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
"I understand the thinking behind Carolyn Maloney, and she's great, but she's not exactly a dynamic person."

I disagree with this statement. Even if I didn't I don't think it makes sense as an argument against appointing Maloney. Isn't the argument against "not dynamic" people that they can't get a crowd excited, and therefore cannot win elections? That line of reasoning is doubly pointless in this case, as she: 1) would be getting appointed, and 2) has already won many elections.

Carolyn Maloney!!!
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@yvanehtnioj: No? Only love for one Caroline here?

Okay.
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pesematology
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
I think this picture is a sign that America is moving in the right direction. I mean, have you ever seen Cheney cuddle a puppy? Can you even picture it? Would you even want to?

I applaud the new administration's long-overdue attention to cute furry animals.
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morninggloria
12/16/08

@pesematology: I was under the impression that Cheney eats puppies.
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stacyinbean
12/16/08

@pesematology: Cheney doesn't cuddle puppies, he cuddles porcupines.
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rosasparks
12/16/08

@pesematology: I would expect Cheney to shoot the puppy for piddling on the rug.
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Brigit
12/16/08

@pesematology: I bet Cheney eats puppehs for breakfast.
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Saltine
12/16/08

@Brigit quiere comer pasteles!: Puppies are very nutritious and heart healthy...
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SarahMC
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
Bush's lack of self-awareness is shocking. Like, he truly didn't get why the shoe-thrower was angry.
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Saltine
12/16/08

@SarahMC: Why would the shoe thrower be angry when all Bush wanted was to bring peace and prosperity to his country?
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
Thank pissing Christ that I'm not the only one who did a double take at the New York Post "Look! She wears ball-gowns! Hillary wore pants suits!" idiocy. I also wonder if there is actually a screening device at their website that filters out Dems who want to comment.
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NefariousNewt
12/16/08

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (subservient to the ovumlord): Hef. That's just the usual misogyny and sexism talking. She'd have to deal with that no matter what. The thing that torques me off so much is the idea that she's being presumptuous in trying to get the seat, because she's never held public office. What difference does that make?
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/16/08

@NefariousNewt: Gee, the GOP didn't balk when Schwarzenegger sought public office. The thing that also frosts my cookies is, it's not up to Caroline Kennedy whether or not they hold a special election. If appointment is the only way she can get this particular Senate seat, then take it up with the people who made the rules.
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NefariousNewt
12/16/08

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (subservient to the ovumlord): And gee, didn't Ahhhhhnold marry into the Kennedy clan? But yes -- you don't like the rules, change them, and stop complaining about it.
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NefariousNewt
12/16/08

@NefariousNewt: And right after I write it, I hear a talking head on CNN call it "presumptuous!" Grow up people!
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@NefariousNewt: I really don't get this. It is presumptuous! I can understand thinking that, even if it is so, she'll do a great job so the ends justify the means, but I cannot understand people who think that it isn't presumptuous in the least.

She isn't UNqualified in any spectacular way, but she's basically equally as qualified as a million other people. I'm a lawyer. I've worked on non-profits. I'm committed to education reform. But I didn't call up Paterson and inform him that I'd like to be considered, and if I had I would be considered a complete nutjob. Because I'm not a Kennedy.

Clinton had to face the same thing when she first ran for Senate, the people saying "who does she think she is?" versus the people saying "but I think she'd be effective." But then there was an election. And therein lies the difference.
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NefariousNewt
12/16/08

@yvanehtnioj: Fine -- then let the millions of qualified people put in a call to Governor Patterson's office and ask to be considered. No one is stopping them. It's presumptuous to think that just because she is a Kennedy, she can't ask to be considered along with anyone else who is qualified.
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yellow_dog
12/16/08

@yvanehtnioj: Can you raise $70 million to fund your reelction? The Dems would like to hold this seat.
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@yellow_dog: See, there's an actual reason to support her appointment. Coupled with an acknowledgment of her unique advantage. (Last name.)

Thank you for being the first.
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@yvanehtnioj: ETA: I don't think it's a particularly great reason, as I don't think that NY is in any real danger of electing a Republican in 2010, but I do appreciate that it's an actual reason.
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SarahMC
12/16/08

In reply to The Senate May Get Caroline, But Biden Gets Carney And A Canine
How ironic that Caroline Kennedy is being accused of being unqualified for a seat that's been vacated by Hillary Clinton. Any criticism of Kennedy could just as easily be have been lobbed at Clinton!
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mama_t
12/16/08

@SarahMC: And was, times a thousand.
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SarahMC
12/16/08

@mama_t: Right. But a lot of the people dissing on Kennedy's qualifications are from the Clinton camp!
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/16/08

@SarahMC: Yup. And wake me when the Clintons get indignant about people dissing Chelsea's aspirations because "First Daughter" isn't a qualification.
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bluebears
12/16/08

@mama_t: yes but Hilary was elected. The voters ultimately rejected that charge. Thats the tricky thing about appointing such a high profile person like CKS who has no experience, people are always going to attribute it to special favors. Incidentally, if CKS actually ran I think she'd win easily so if this is what she wants I don't know why she doesn't just wait and run.
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NefariousNewt
12/16/08

@bluebears: Yes, but Caroline Kennedy has been a long-time resident of New York, and worked for New York causes. Appoint her, give her a couple of years, and I bet she has no trouble being re-elected.
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@SarahMC: Yeah, but Clinton was elected. The people decided.
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bluebears
12/16/08

@NefariousNewt: you're probably right. I just think that until the time she's actually elected you're going to hear people talking about how she just traded on her name to get the seat. I'm sure she is as aware of this as anyone though and it seems she's made the decision.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/16/08

@yvanehtnioj: But there is no special election this time around. The people can't decide (which I think needs to be changed). I'm not sure I want Kennedy as my Senator, btw, so I'm not lobbying on her behalf. I like Maloney a lot. But I can't fault Kennedy for seeking an appointment and not an election because there is no election to be had right now.
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (subservient to the ovumlord): I have no issues with thinking she has a right to seek the appointment, thinking she'd be good at it, etc.

I have a problem with the idea that a lot of her ability to be considered seriously comes from her last name, and when people notice that they're accused of sour grapes. I'd take her supporters a bit more at their word if they evaluated the uncomfortable truth that is: she's not uniquely qualified, she's just uniquely famous. And then said, "even so, here's why I think she's the best candidate..." But as far as I can see that's not what's happening.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/16/08

@yvanehtnioj: Gotcha. I only saw you saying that Hillary was elected (and I voted for her, yay!) and thought your issue was with the appointment part of it. My bad.
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yvanehtnioj
12/16/08

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (subservient to the ovumlord): No worries. I need to get better at determining when a pithy response does the job and when it does not.
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