On page 2 there is a lot of arguing about blaming the victim and weather or not Rihanna has something wrong with her. Wrong isn't a word I'd use but I think "different" is more than fair. There are women who get smacked around and hit the road before the swelling has a chance to go down. Just so I happens I am one of them. I put up with some verbal and emotional stuff that didn't sit well with me for much longer than I should have but the hands on buisness enraged me. To this day when it comes up I wonder if he was ever able to have children. I always knew violence was a deal breaker for me long before it happened. I just never saw it coming.
I don't think it's unreasonable to try and figure out why the fight/flight instinct kicks in sooner for some women than others if it even does. It isn't their fault that they don't flee immediately but that doesn't mean we don't need to bother figuring out why they don't. Understanding that may go a long way towards ensuring that more women don't fall victim to domestic abuse. Anything that can empower women to stand up and say HELL NO to abuse is okay in my book.
Frankly I believe that we'd already have the answers if domestic abuse was primarily a male issue. Brains would have been studied by the thousands and countless billions would have been spent on research. The punishment would be much more severe too. I think women deserve the same investment of resources as Viagra got and then some. Just my 2 cents.
apparently, ghostface killah from wu tang put out a song speaking on the situation. who knew that ghost was the only one with the gall to stand up for rihanna 100%
@bess marvin, girl detective: Thank god. He sounds like he might know from experience, too. I bet more people come out with support, especially now that so much information has been released.
You know, I've done precious little volunteering/community service type activities thus far in life, but learning more about domestic violence from the situation with Rihanna and from the amazingly informative and thought-provoking comments that have been posted here ... it makes me want to do something.
I've never been a people person (sort of shy), nor particularly good at comforting people (just not wired that way I guess...), so does anyone know of any way I could possibly be useful?
Thanks for any suggestions. Somewhat relatedly, just let me say, I've been lurking around here for a year or so, and only started commenting a few weeks ago ... and I love the Jezebel community to pieces. That is all.
@escapefromny: I lurked for a year before I had the cojones to dip my toe in the commenting pond as well, so you're far from alone. This place can be like a whirlwind sometimes, but a great and thoughtful community, oh yeah.
@BluebellaElliot: Unless they did in fact get married. In most states you can't force someone to testify against their spouse. Which may actually be what they're thinking right now.
@fulanita: Only they would be wrong because marital privilege is inapplicable in this case.
If Rihanna does not want to cooperate the prosecution can most certainly proceed without her. I only had a handful of cooperating spouses but that never stopped me from getting convictions. This is a stellar case evidence wise already and I can assure you we aren't seeing everything the state has in their pockets.
I love Jamie Lee Curtis. I love that Jamie let her hair go natural gray and she is even more beautiful than before. And I love Jamie scolding major media for being superficial douche baskets(okay, there is no such thing as a douche basket, but I'm tired of douche bag AND douche nozzle, but love douche as a prefix).
Michael Caine has always loved to stretch himself artistically. Hence his decision to appear in such cinematic masterpieces as Beyond the Posiedon Adventure, the Swarm and Jaws: the Revenge.
@Rare Affinity:Aw, but Alfie, and the fact that I love Michael Caine for no ascertainable reason. Oh, except that he has been in a slew of fantastic,a slew of terrible, and a slew of mediocre movies! Dude needs his paycheck. My favorite was Deathtrap with the late Christopher Reeve (I think because it is my favorite Christopher Reeve film, I don't know that it is better than Hannah and Her Sisters).
@encnyc: I looooooved Deathtrap. The infamous kiss made me feel all funny inside (in a good way!) @Rare Affinity: Michael Caine stars in one of my favorite films of all time: Hannah and Her Sisters, and one of my "favorite" (so bad that you gotta love it) films of all time: Dressed to Kill. The man has range, you gotta give him that.
@Rare Affinity: Hey, the guy's been in like a hundred movies, they can't all be winners. He's got bills to pay, too. Even Olivier had The Betsy, Inchon, and Clash of the Titans.
Peter Tork is my fave Monkey! I haz a sad! Get yer tongue better soon. I wanted to play with that tongue many moons ago. With my tongue. And maybe still.
I thought it was so smart of Rihanna to fake call her assistant about the cops being there, but it seemed to make him flip out more. Does anyone with expertise mind weighing in here?
@LatestBy: Abuse in the car is especially scary- you can't run away, and there is a real possibility of the driver might deliberately crash to injure both of you. I think all you can really do is placate the person, then run like hell when given the opportunity. Blatantly calling the assistant to call the cops did nothing but make him angrier. Actually calling the cops would have been better, but it could easily have had the same effect.
@LatestBy: When you read the warrant, she fake calls and speaks as the voicemail message is playing. She does not leave a message and she makes no contact with anyone. The reason she is alive is because she gets out of the car and someone calls 911 after hearing her sobbing and crying for help.
So...no, I don't think that there was anything smart about what she did. In fact, it reminds me all too much of coabusive relationships I was faced with when I worked in the domestic violence division at the state attorney's office. She essentially false baits him in hopes that he will get scared and stop what he is doing, but she fails to actually take steps to "tattle" on him. Very sad.
@Zombies make the heart grow fonder: It's 'true. I had to admit it but I can't tell you how many times I'd hold the phoen and go as far as to dialing the first two numbers of the emergency line and just wait. For what? For him to calm down and stop. I never intended to actually call. And it always made him madder.
He wasn't mad because he was scared of getting in trouble, because he knew I wasn't calling anyone. He was mad that I'd dare to defy him in any way.
It's part bluff to try and diffuse the situation, but it's futile because you know it won't. And it's partially provoking the person. The abuse is going to happen either way, and a lot of abuse victims will speed up the delivery of such violence rather than have it strung out. It's sick, but it happens.
@Scout: Excuse me? I too have lived through this crap and believe me, there was no violence on my part whatsoever. I was far too terrified to do anything violent. Nor had I ever been violent before. Nor have I ever been since. I don't get the assumption that Rihanna did anything violent at all, I don't see that coming from any of the information that has been released.
If she had fought back, would that justify her going to prison? Could you prove whether it happened before or during her beating? Do you think maybe if she had hurt him at all she wouldn't be alive right now?
@SylvanSylph: That being said, I don't mean to indicate your experience is less valid than mine or that it makes me an expert on the subject. I just don't see how anyone could blame her for violence when she is hospitalized and he is off vacationing and jet skiing or whatever the hell he did. If there was a fight, it certainly wasn't much of one.
It really disturbs me that little girls write on Chris Browns Myspace:
hey Chris I still love u no matter what u did!! I'll always be ur fan... N maybe that hoe got u so mad that u had to hit her... It's ok chris I forgive u!!! LOVE U ALWAYS JENNY!!!!!!
They are as old as my little sister and think that there are instances in which it is somehow right to hit another human being? I need to talk to counterclockwise junior soon.
@counterclockwise says it's freak-out time!: that IS most disturbing for two reasons - 1) that they accept and allow that abuse can be justified and 2) that they can resort to abuse (it is certainly implied when "got you so mad you had to hit" is commented)
These thought processes create a perfect storm in which they can become both abused and an abuser
@counterclockwise says it's freak-out time!: I don't think it's an overreaction. I have a little brother in 8th grade. I give him more "big talks" than my parents do (or ever did with me). Totally different world those kiddies are growing up in, it hurts my heart.
@schweppes: Ah, thank you, I thought I was being overprotective again. My sister is in 8th grade too and sometimes I feel more like a third parent than a sister, but I hope I can reach her on a different level as mom and dad, being more like a friend and closer to her age.
It's amazing and dazing that she is only 7 years younger, but she's growing up in a different world, just like you said.
@schweppes: I wish I gave my little sister more of those kind of talks. Unfortunately we were never all that close. She's currently twelve and her boyfriend has attacked her at least one time that left her fearing for her life and yep, he's still her boyfriend. I wonder if I had been there for her earlier in life if it would have made a difference. My heart aches for her.
So yes, counterclockwise I think it's a good idea and not overreacting at all.
@BluebellaElliot: I promise you, you might be surprised how much she would be open to you helping her now, even if she might seem like she would revolt.
@counterclockwise says it's freak-out time!: Is this a generational thing? Or do we just need to educate our young'uns better? We should start a Jezebel Big Sisters program.
@BluebellaElliot: If she's only twelve, maybe it's not to late to reach out to her and try to be there for her now? I say this without knowing your history, of course, but sometimes things that seem so completely beyond hope really aren't...
@SantosLHalper: I was wondering if it was generational, but I guess I'm not actually qualified to answer that question since I'm still pretty young. But my personal impression is that the shift in media-availability changed a lot.
Generational thing or not, I'm a proud, big, overprotective sister to counterclockwise junior and her two best friends who lack big sisters. They're smart girls (who will be introduced to Jezebel as soon as their English is up to par) with opinions who will go far if they try.
@BluebellaElliot: Talk to your sister, you might not seem extremely close now, but maybe she wants to talk to you more than you expect. In situations like these a big sister/brother can be much more helpful than parents, because you communicate in a different way. And while you're at it, kick that little fuckers' ass. I would.
@counterclockwise says it's freak-out time!: Second the part about kicking the kid's ass. Obviously not to the point of anything that would get me arrested, but I would take her with me and let her watch me seriously intimidate and cuss the kid out. He has power over her...let her see what it looks like when a woman stands up and in no uncertain terms takes that power away and cuts him down to size.
@MizJenkins: Yeah, I meant that ass-kicking part more figuratively than literally, otherwise I would contradict myself badly. There ways are to make people pee their pants in fear without touching them once. I would look that stuff up and try anything from A to Z. Mess with my little sister and you have one pissed-off fury to deal with.
@all: I do plan on reaching out to her, despite previous efforts proving to be totally useless. It's...complicated to say the least. I've already flipped my shit at the boyfriend before (non-violently) and while I'm sure he was momentarily intimidated, I think he is too stupid to care. I haven't given up on her yet, I'm just sorry that our relationship growing was what it is and I feel guilty about how that may affect her choices now.
@encnyc: Yes, she's 12, but leave your assumptions at the door. She is not...typical.
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I don't think it's unreasonable to try and figure out why the fight/flight instinct kicks in sooner for some women than others if it even does. It isn't their fault that they don't flee immediately but that doesn't mean we don't need to bother figuring out why they don't. Understanding that may go a long way towards ensuring that more women don't fall victim to domestic abuse. Anything that can empower women to stand up and say HELL NO to abuse is okay in my book.
Frankly I believe that we'd already have the answers if domestic abuse was primarily a male issue. Brains would have been studied by the thousands and countless billions would have been spent on research. The punishment would be much more severe too. I think women deserve the same investment of resources as Viagra got and then some. Just my 2 cents.
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True words, and sad ones too.
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[www.hiphopmusic.com]
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I've never been a people person (sort of shy), nor particularly good at comforting people (just not wired that way I guess...), so does anyone know of any way I could possibly be useful?
Thanks for any suggestions. Somewhat relatedly, just let me say, I've been lurking around here for a year or so, and only started commenting a few weeks ago ... and I love the Jezebel community to pieces. That is all.
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That is all.
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If Rihanna does not want to cooperate the prosecution can most certainly proceed without her. I only had a handful of cooperating spouses but that never stopped me from getting convictions. This is a stellar case evidence wise already and I can assure you we aren't seeing everything the state has in their pockets.
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So...no, I don't think that there was anything smart about what she did. In fact, it reminds me all too much of coabusive relationships I was faced with when I worked in the domestic violence division at the state attorney's office. She essentially false baits him in hopes that he will get scared and stop what he is doing, but she fails to actually take steps to "tattle" on him. Very sad.
03/06/09
He wasn't mad because he was scared of getting in trouble, because he knew I wasn't calling anyone. He was mad that I'd dare to defy him in any way.
It's part bluff to try and diffuse the situation, but it's futile because you know it won't. And it's partially provoking the person. The abuse is going to happen either way, and a lot of abuse victims will speed up the delivery of such violence rather than have it strung out. It's sick, but it happens.
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"They both need to go to jail, if in fact she did hit him or terrorize him psychologically."
damn fucking straight - no passes for anyone who is violent
There should be no quarter for people who are violent, regardless of gender.
i too, lived through this crap and know how it goes.
03/05/09
If she had fought back, would that justify her going to prison? Could you prove whether it happened before or during her beating? Do you think maybe if she had hurt him at all she wouldn't be alive right now?
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hey Chris I still love u no matter what u did!! I'll always be ur fan... N maybe that hoe got u so mad that u had to hit her... It's ok chris I forgive u!!! LOVE U ALWAYS JENNY!!!!!!
They are as old as my little sister and think that there are instances in which it is somehow right to hit another human being? I need to talk to counterclockwise junior soon.
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These thought processes create a perfect storm in which they can become both abused and an abuser
disconcerting
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It scares me. Am I overreacting if I sit little counterclockwise down for a talk about that? Just to see what she thinks?
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It's amazing and dazing that she is only 7 years younger, but she's growing up in a different world, just like you said.
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So yes, counterclockwise I think it's a good idea and not overreacting at all.
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Generational thing or not, I'm a proud, big, overprotective sister to counterclockwise junior and her two best friends who lack big sisters. They're smart girls (who will be introduced to Jezebel as soon as their English is up to par) with opinions who will go far if they try.
@BluebellaElliot: Talk to your sister, you might not seem extremely close now, but maybe she wants to talk to you more than you expect. In situations like these a big sister/brother can be much more helpful than parents, because you communicate in a different way. And while you're at it, kick that little fuckers' ass. I would.
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@encnyc: Yes, she's 12, but leave your assumptions at the door. She is not...typical.