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lavenderstain
09/24/09

In reply to True Colors
I wish I could have gone. My friends and family in Iran have repeatedly told me that the international support they recieve helps them go on, and all they want from us outside Iran is to show the world their struggle.
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
09/24/09

In reply to True Colors
"A" for effort and all, but what's the point of even asking? He's a goddamn liar. I think everyone knows that by now.
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CherriSpryte
06/25/09

In reply to Union Flare
I was thinking of going to the ones in DC, but I worried I'd feel kind of out of place. There's a decent sized Iranian expat population here, and I kind of feel like me and my white girl self would be seen as fake, and protesting just to protest? I don't know.
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mfnher
06/25/09

@CherriSpryte: Would you be protesting just to protest? Do you really feel like what is happening is unjust? If so, stand up. My issue with the situation is I really feel like Ahmadinejad won. I'm more than happy to protest how bullshit he is as a leader, but not the election. There may have been some suspect stuff going on, but he would have won the majority anyway. No question.
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CherriSpryte
06/25/09

@mfnher: I wouldn't be protesting just to protest - I work in democracy promotion in my professional life, and its something I feel very strongly about.
Whether Ahmadinejad had a majority of the votes or not will never be known, because it is incredibly clear that many many votes were never counted, and are now being burned or otherwise destroyed. There were no international election monitors present, and the voter turnouts and time taken to "count" the ballots absolutely proves that many of those numbers were made up. There are substantial inconsistencies such as the major difference between polling numbers, prior election results and the stated voter records - specifically Mousavi losing his home province, which he's never lost in any election he's run in in the past 30 years.
Its those reasons, along with the treatment of the protesters, that makes me want to go out and protest.
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Helen Skor
06/25/09

@mfnher: And that's a major concern of mine. Most of the people that you see protesting are young, female, and in metropolitan areas - but how did the older generations and those in rural areas vote? We really have no way of knowing whether the elections were rigged unless proof is offered, and if the majority of people voted for Ahmadinejad, no matter how much we dislike him, it was a democratic process and we need to respect that.

And just for clarification, my above statement is in no way meant to be taken as support for Ahmadinejad or the Ayatollah.
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CherriSpryte
06/25/09

@Helen Skor: The Supreme Leader has acknowledged that there were problems, including 140% voter turnout in multiple districts.

They claim to have counted 30 million hand ballots in a matter of hours. That is an impossibility. That is also proof that the elections were rigged.

Also, most of the protesters are not female - most are male. There are an unusually large proportion of women, sure, but they're not the majority.
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kkatt
06/25/09

In reply to Union Flare
I saw this last night as well. It was more like a show of support than an actual protest.
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robot ninja spy
06/25/09

@kkatt: That's what I thought, too. The FB event title said vigil, so I think it was a bit of both.

There's another one planned for tonight in Times Square at 8p.m.
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BAngieB
06/25/09

In reply to Union Flare
She's never gonna get a cab in that crowd.
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LaComtesse
06/25/09

In reply to Union Flare
On one hand (the hand I'm more inclined to go with), awesome; this is a great show of support. On the other hand (and the Daily Show actually touched on this last night, though I've been thinking about it) I can't help but feel a twinge of co-opting here. This isn't about us and to drape ourselves in the garb of Iranian protesters and take to the streets, as though the two rallies are in any way comparable, makes me a little uneasy.

Still, as I said, it seems to be merely a show of support, which is cool.
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TheGuvnah
06/25/09

@LaComtesse: it makes you a little uneasy that people in America are actually in the streets about something??

It makes me thrilled.
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LaComtesse
06/25/09

@TheGuvnah: It makes me more pleased than uneasy, but I'm not going to deny the ambivalence. I guess the pessimist in me is skeptical of the... "sincerity" is the wrong word but it's the first that comes to mind. Like a yellow or pink ribbon on the back of a car; are you* really supporting this cause or is it chic at the moment...?

*universal "you"
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PixiePie
06/25/09

@LaComtesse: It makes me uncomfortable, too. It feels like once Westerners start caring, then there is an obvious right answer? And no one seems to care this much when countries, like Zimbabwe, have the same massive protests in response to elections. Why are people up in arms about Iran, but so few other places? I don't know if any of this made sense, but I definitely have a same kind of feeling.
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robot ninja spy
06/25/09

@PixiePie: No, your comment makes a lot of sense, at least to me. But I also think in this case, people are more aware of it because of the pictures and video coming out and because the message is being spread in places where people who don't go out of their way to seek out news can't avoid it, like Twitter and whatnot.
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DinaRonson : Elizabeth Cady Stanton
06/25/09

In reply to Union Flare
A friend in the UK has sent this out on facebook, I don't know if any of you have heard this as well.

If you're on Twitter, set your location to Tehran (and your time-zone). Security forces are hunting for bloggers using location/timezone searches. The more people at this location, the more of a logjam it creates for forces trying to shut down Iranians' access to the internet. Add provocative keywords like demonstration.

Feedback Jezzies??
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sympathyforthebasementcat
06/25/09

@DinaRonson : Elizabeth Cady Stanton: Yeah, some fairly reliable Tweeters have said the location thing. So I'm in Tehran, +3:30 time zone now. I figure even if it doesn't actually help, at least it doesn't hurt anything.

I haven't heard the part about provocative keywords though, but it makes sense.
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EkaterinaBallerina
06/25/09

@DinaRonson : Elizabeth Cady Stanton: This was all over my Facebook feed this weekend. I did this over the weekend while my plane was delayed. I mentioned it to my dad when I returned and he said "Democracy in action!"
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KellyKapowski
06/25/09

@DinaRonson : Elizabeth Cady Stanton: I feel like they could just do an IP search, but I don't know much about computers.
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EkaterinaBallerina
06/25/09

@KellyKapowski: My dad mentioned this weekend that there is a team of techies in SF or somewhere who are systematically removing the blocks the Iranian censors keep throwing up. It's apparently quite the back and forth on the internet.
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sympathyforthebasementcat
06/25/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: That's really fascinating. I know we can't interfere too much in this movement, but I'm glad there are some things that people can and are doing to help.
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DinaRonson : Elizabeth Cady Stanton
06/25/09

@everyone: THANKS!
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AuburnPonytail
06/25/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: This kind of stuff is just so fascinating to me, un-tech-savy as I am. Do you (or anyone) know of any articles or news stories about these efforts?
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SharonTaint
06/25/09

@AuburnPonytail: Changing time zones doesn't actually change your location. It is the ISP that counts, and unless you pay to have it scrambled or routed to somewhere untraceable, it's not hard to figure out where someone is located.

I see this action more as a show of solidarity rather than actually "confusing" the government.
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angelheadedhipster
06/25/09

In reply to Union Flare
I rode past a similar protest in DC on the bus earlier this week - keep on keepin' on!
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stoprobbers
06/25/09

In reply to Union Flare
Gotta keep it going, keep it going full steam...
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DinaRonson : Elizabeth Cady Stanton
06/25/09

@stoprobbers: Plot & scheme
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Nighthawk (the former Okori Wadsworth) is headed back to DGUSA in November!
06/25/09

In reply to Union Flare
Let's keep the protests going as long as we can. Good job everyone.
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deitybox
06/24/09

In reply to Compare, Contrast
I kinda like how the pic of Ahmadickinajad looks like he has a little second head. He's the Zaphod Beeblebrox of Iran. He's just misunderstood.
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chrisdag
06/24/09

In reply to Compare, Contrast
I hereby invoke a modified version of Goodin's Law. If you have to resort to Nazi analogies then you automatically lose the argument, due to lameness and laziness.
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Green Goth Brit Chick - AlternatEve
06/24/09

@chrisdag: Its Godwin, and please let that be a lame attempt at a joke.
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Hooplehead
06/24/09

@chrisdag: Ordinarily, you'd be right. However, considering that Ahmedinejad is running a totalitarian government that jails, beats and kills its opposition, a lot like, oh, I don't know, Hitler did, the comparison is a bit more apt.
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AtomiClash: humanitarian misanthrope
06/24/09

In reply to Compare, Contrast
She looks like she might be smirking behind that photo, which means for such a young child, she's probably well aware of what the implications are. I just find that very cool.
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BeckySharper
06/24/09

In reply to Compare, Contrast
Ironic, considering Ahmadinejad doesn't think Hitler actually did anything all that bad...
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deitybox
06/24/09

@BeckySharper: Yeah, that's the funny thing about some Holocaust deniers who are also anti-semites. If Hitler didn't really kill so many Jews, why was he such a big deal?
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BeckySharper
06/24/09

@deitybox: Because he makes us so mad? That's the only reason I can think of.
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deitybox
06/24/09

@BeckySharper: Ha. Then they should also be all over Jews for Jesus. Scourge of Jewish parents everywhere.
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heywhat
06/24/09

@BeckySharper: That's why I was thinking. Would he even be embarrassed by the comparison? Someone (Bill Maher?) said all the Holocaust denial is just Middle Eastern politics and campaign rhetoric to get elected b/c people in the region wanted someone who thumbed their noses at the West and Israel. That there is no real hatred of Jews just inflammatory rhetoric to get everyone's attention.
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deitybox
06/24/09

@heywhat: ...but they wouldn't get elected if the inflammatory rhetoric wasn't well-received, so I'd say there's actually plenty of anti-semitism.
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Majrhoulihan
06/24/09

In reply to Compare, Contrast
I hate to see small children at protests, no matter how important or right the cause is. I don't know, I guess there's such precious little time for children to be innocent. Though, perhaps no child is innocent when living in the midst of such upset.
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Ailatan
06/24/09

@Majrhoulihan: I agree... sometimes I see them as "tools" used by grown ups (esp. anti choicers), this is not ok, even if it's for a worthy cause (as in this case).
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BeckySharper
06/24/09

@Majrhoulihan: Yeah, I agree.
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nellicat
06/24/09

@Majrhoulihan: Yeah, that's a tough one. On the one hand, shouldn't parents expose their children to causes we believe in? That's our right and our duty as parents, I believe. Growing up, my family was very pro-union, never crossed a picket line, and marched on behalf of the Teamsters. It was important to my parents to teach us how the union effort improved the lives of working folk. On the other hand, exactly what you said: their window of innocence is small, and shrinking every day. Why introduce adult topics to little minds?

And then there is always the possibility of violence at a protest, and I don't think it's fair to expose your children to that. So: I'm torn.
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Majrhoulihan
06/24/09

@nellicat: It's just that, the same line of thinking is applied by the parents who drag their children out to the abortion protests outside of my local hospital. Your kids will learn what you believe whether you take them out there with you or not.
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Triphena
06/24/09

@Majrhoulihan: Especially when police are firing into crowds of protesters. You, as an adult, can make the choice to risk your life for your cause, but you can't make that choice for your child.
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EkaterinaBallerina
06/24/09

@Majrhoulihan: I'm so ambivalent about this myself. My mother took my brother and I to marches for reproductive rights when we were kids, we often went with her to the Mall when she was working on the NAMES Project, my grandmother had me chanting "ERA NOW!" when I was 2, and we were taught from a very early age what my parents (and even grandparents) believed. But I guess the difference is that everything I was taught had its foundation in equality, acceptance, tolerance, and above all peace. I guess the difference is that what were taught to exercise our rights and beliefs peacefully. Parents who bring their kids to anti-choice rallies and anti-gay demonstrations are teaching their kids hatred and violence. And that sets those kids up for a tough life where they learn that anger, hatred and violence are okay.
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margareita metermaid
06/24/09

@Majrhoulihan: I agree in theory-- I wish the innocence of childhood would last longer too. But kids pick up so much information in and out of the home. As long as they are being involved in protests/causes advocating peace and equality, i think it can be a good thing. my parents were very vocal about their leftist politics and gay and animal rights, and i remember as a very young kid going to animal shelters to volunteer and meetings, etc. i influenced a lot of my friends who hadn't ever been taught that hitting a dog is wrong, or throwing a cat around is NOT funny, or that gay people were just normal people. heh, my elementary school friends were even chastised for smashing slugs or thinking certain animals were 'gross' or calling anyone a 'fag'. it gave me a level of compassion and passion for causes i may have picked up bad impressions otherwise. that said, it works both ways, and seeing little children at anti choice rallies is incredibly disturbing. i hate to think of the rhetoric they are distributing to their peers. i think the world is so informationally overloaded that the earlier you can teach your kids about/ show them other large groups of people who advocate important issues is probably good.
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