invitrofertilization

posts about #invitrofertilization more →
Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
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Ultraprison!
10/12/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
I didn't realize twins were such a high-risk pregnancy. They run in my family - my mom is a twin, her grandmother was a twin, her grandmother was a twin... that means it's my generation's turn to have a set. Now I'm nervous!!! Eek!
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MagsCO
10/12/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
It always makes me sad when people talk about doctors being in the business for the wrong reasons. Most docs know they can make a steady, respectable income and aren't looking for get-rich-quick schemes. I know there are a few (very) bad apples out there, but I hope that won't make people judge the whole bunch.

Most docs really do mean to help their patients, and most do go over the risks/benefits of any course of action with their patients and let them make informed decisions. Insurance issues are the major obstacle for them. My dad is a doctor and I've seen him worry and stress over a tough call he had to make at work, and the financial aspect never had a thing to do with it. It's always the bad examples that make headlines.

Plus, while twins and triplets are seen as cute, convenient and kind of trendy in our culture these days, I think if a certain doctor or clinic was churning out quints and sextuplets on too regular a basis, most mothers-to-be would get scared and look elsewhere.
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Slim
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
I don't understand how people have multiples (3+ babies) so often with IVF. I know one couple who had been trying for years, went to a doctor and explained they just wanted to get pregnant, but not have more than twins. As it turns out, after working with their doctor, they were able to conceive one, a little boy! And they had been trying for yeeeears.
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Maritsa
10/12/09

@SlimKitten: Actually most high-order multiples are the results of medicated IUIs, not IVF. Although obviously it happens - Octomom - most reputable docs won't transfer that many.
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The Plain People of Ireland (formerly cheerfulp is always...)
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
As an older mom (40 when my kid was born) and an adoptee who met both birth parents, I decided (with Mr. P) that we would try to have a biological kid, but without IVF or any other procedure. If it happened, it happened.

I did not want to adopt; I wanted a biological child, having never lived with a blood relative. That was my (very individual) choice, and I wouldn't judge any of yours.
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redqueenmeg
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
I kind of wanted my current pregnancy to be twins just because I wanted to get all the childbirthing over with. I hate being pregnant. I am a bad person. :D

ETA: Forgot to add, twins don't run in my or my husband's family and this was not IVF so it was a pretty far-fetched possibility.
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Edited by redqueenmeg at 10/11/09 8:27 PM redqueenmeg was starred redqueenmeg was unstarred

MsFab
10/12/09

@redqueenmeg: My brother and sister-in-law just had identical twin girls, and twins don't run in either family, so its possible! :-)
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Cookie Guggleman
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
I just can't comprehend the obsession, sometimes bordering on mania, to conceive a child that puts the health of that longed-for child/children at risk.
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Maritsa
10/11/09

@Cookie Guggleman: I think the problem is that the risks are not explained or are ignored. Most people understand quads and more are a huge health risk, but they don't understand the bad statistics on triplets, even. And twins? Forget it. People think twins are born a little early and a little small, that's it. And usually that is true, but they're just now finding out that "late" preemies - 35, 36 weekers - can have problems down the road.

My clinic did an awesome job of explaining the risks, but people can ignore them. A friend of mine went to the same clinic and got the same info, but her husband actively hoped for triplets. And he is a brilliant guy, a bigtime lawyer, but people sometimes aren't realistic. As it was they had twins and she was on strict bedrest for two whole months, but the babies were 100% healthy and born at 38 1/2 weeks.
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sheetalbabca
10/12/09

@Maritsa: Babies born at 40 weeks can 'have problems down the road'. Do all babies have to be perfect physical specimens? It's not only IVF babies that run the risk of being born prem (my boy was born at 35 weeks due to HELLP syndrome). After the stress of going through all that, are you telling me I have to worry about 'down the road'? All babies are at risk of something, and parents have enough worry without adding to it. Gah!
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Maritsa
10/12/09

@sheetalbabca: No, I'm not telling you anything. I'm relaying what the article says about late pre-term babies. Read it or don't, your choice. I'm a parent, I know anything can go wrong at any time.
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Tambar
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
Why is no one talking about reduction from twins that may not gestate as long to a single fetus who will go to 40 weeks? I see no mention of it.
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Maritsa
10/11/09

@Tambar: Some doctors will do that but it's not very common at all. Selective reduction also risks losing the whole pregnancy, and that might not be worth it to people since MOST twin pregnancies do end up OK (meaning the babies don't have severe long-term problems). I've seen it discussed elsewhere but I don't think it's very common.
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LaFemme
10/11/09

@Maritsa: Do you think it was always like this? I remember my mother's friends having babies (about 15-20 years ago) and people were pretty concerned about twins, forget triplets or more. I feel like there is a bit of twin-mania that has come along with their increasing numbers, that has kind of pushed those concerns aside. I remember these women being very worried about twins (one or two had twins, as a result of IVF) not only physically but emotionally for their children. There was a lot of talk of wanting to avoid higher-risk pregnancies, and concern that they would have premies that may go on to have any number of problems, and being one of a twin could make that even worse.
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Faster.Pussycat
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
There is an adoption option which it seems like a lot of people don't know about - it's called direct adoption. Basically, you meet up directly with a woman who wants to give up her baby, follow the appropriate laws, and the baby is yours. Of course, it is more complicated than that, but there is no agency involved. The agency cannot tell you that you are too old or too single or the wrong color or whatever arbitrary feature you have which makes you unfit in the eyes of the agency. It doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars, either. The catch? Well, most of these babies are the ones that agencies can't place b/c they are not white (to be blunt), and they are frequently born to mothers who live in poverty. The woman of color who lives in poverty is the subject of great suspicion in the eyes of our society. There are certainly problems with white people adopting children of color, and it is certainly challenging to raise a multi-racial family. But if one is willing to raise a child who does not look like you, direct adoption is far more accessible than either adoption through an agency or IVF.
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Maritsa
10/11/09

@Faster.Pussycat: I'm sorry but I think you are wrong. More accessible than IVF? IVF can be had pretty easily, it's just a matter of paying for it, and many people just put it on a credit card. And for a lot of people, it is insured.

Find a pregnant woman - how? And one where the father will give up paternal rights? Because if he doesn't you could be fucked down the road if he shows up. I know a gay couple who adopted through a lawyer, not an agency, but they paid a LOT to do so. More than if they had done an international adoption, though they got a newborn, not an infant.

Also, it is not hard to place healthy infants of any race, I don't know where you are getting your info from.
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serreca
10/11/09

@Maritsa: Exactly. Also, it wouldn't be cheap, you'd probably be on the hook for most of the woman's medical costs, unlike if you were to become pregnant through fertility treatments and would hopefully have insurance to cover most of it.
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midwesternmom
10/11/09

@Faster.Pussycat: And if she changes her mind, once you have paid her pregnancy and delivery fees, she has a baby and you have an empty bank account. The law gives the mother great protection, since we don't want to force her to sell her child. Sorry to be negative, but this happened to friends of mine who found out way too late that the baby was also promised to another family.
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Memoosa
10/12/09

@Faster.Pussycat: direct adoption is illegal in some states- like MA. I got my IVF for free - covered by insurance. My husband and I are now paying $40K to adopt and we are expecting to adopt an African-American or biracial child. Adoption is a very complicated process. IVF was a cakewalk in comparison.
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FontWhore (the Great Nubling Hope)
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
This article makes my palms sweat a bit.

After two miscarriages we are now dithering over whether we want to do IUI, IVF, adopt, or WHAT - it's all equally terrifying at this point. Part of the problem is that we don't have unlimited funds, so what if we spend a good chunk on fertility treatments that don't work and then can't afford an adoption?

Ugh. So many variables.
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Maritsa
10/11/09

@FontWhore (the Great Nubling Hope): There are no easy answers, but, a good RE should be able to tell you whether you'd be a good candidate for the various procedures. It depends on your diagnosis, age, etc. But I won't lie, the "what if this doesn't work??" kept me up at night. Good luck and PM me if you have questions.
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Hippopotame begs you to promote her comments.
10/11/09

@FontWhore (the Great Nubling Hope): we've just faced this decision and made it (but since the outcome still isn't guaranteed, could be in the same boat again). PM me if you want to chat, commiserate, compare notes about various options. Most fertility clinics might not have accepted to treat a woman with an HSG # like mine, so I have a lot of info. on that if you're in that position at all.

BTW, IUI pregnant with twins right now. Yea! (and eek).
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Maritsa
10/11/09

@Hippopotame: Congrats!
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Hippopotame begs you to promote her comments.
10/11/09

@Maritsa: Thanks! We've only known a little over a week that it's two, so we are going back and forth between happy-happy and freaked the fuck out about the new risks and new expenses (infant daycare times two?). I had always hoped to have 1 kid and adopt a second, older child, and I worry that the cost and time needed for the twins will prevent that from being possible. But, right now we're just hoping for no miscarriage and healthy babies that are delivered as close to term as possible. I'm thrilled to be pregnant finally!
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midwesternmom
10/11/09

@Hippopotame: Computer hugs to you and your soon-to-be bump.
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Memoosa
10/12/09

@Hippopotame: Congrats! Hope it works out for you.

For anyone who wants to PM me - I've done IUI (got pregnant but miscarried), IVF (got pregnant w/ twins and miscarried both at separate times due to different reasons) and am now pursuing adoption. I've got lots of info.
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Maritsa
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
I think it would be great if more doctors would put their money where their mouths are. They talk about wanting to reduce twin pregnancies, but one of the suggestions in the article - doing a single-embryo transfer for a fee, and storing frozen embryos and transferring them later for free - is something I've never seen. Or a discount on subsequent cycles, or something.

It seems that one of the main reasons people transfer rmultiple embryos is the reduced success rates of single-embryo transfers, which necessitates more cycles. I don't begrudge the doctors their money, but if they are really committed to reducing the number of multiple births, there are things they could do, but it would mean less profit.

My clinic does have a "shared risk" option, where you pay like $25K for up to three fresh and three frozen cycles, and if none succeed, you get 70% refunded to use for adoption. But, that doesn't include the cost of medicine, ultrasounds, etc., so it's really more like $50K or more total. AND, if you pay that and get pregnant on the first round - YAY, you have a baby! But you've paid a lot more than you would have for just one cycle (one cycle is $8500). Risky.
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Edited by Maritsa at 10/11/09 4:56 PM Maritsa was starred Maritsa was unstarred

DevilsLawyer
10/11/09

@Maritsa: I like the principle of weighing the probability and risk before laying down the money (an economist could put it in a more refined way), but with those numbers I would opt for up to three separate cycles rather than risk paying $25K for $8.5K value. Single-embryo transfer and later cycles for free or discount rates sounds like a much better option, if it were available.
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Hippopotame begs you to promote her comments.
10/11/09

@Maritsa: My clinic has something like the shared risk program you mention. When we looked into it, it seems the smartest option given that you get the most chances, and yes, you get some $$ back if it doesn't work. Since we would have to finance the procedure through loans, we tried to look it as as the same price as buying a car (which it is here--well, once you add in the meds and ultrasounds, a very nice car--nicer than any we've ever owned). When you think you can possibly get pregnant successfully (and hopefully have a live, healthy baby) for the price of a car...well, it's clear that it's expensive but worth it (for us). As I said above, though, our medicated IUI worked (so far, so good), so we didn't have to go the IVF route.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
After six years of trying the natural way, my friend is finally on the way to motherhood thanks to IVF. She went into it insanely educated and it's the answer to her prayers. Live and let live - I cry with happiness for her every time she crosses my mind, which is all the time, basically :)
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ZioZio
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
The part where they mentioned how the woman's cervix had to be sewn shut is what got me...
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Maritsa
10/11/09

@ZioZio: Yeah, that's some rough shit. My husband is more ambivalent about twins and I made him read this article to more fully understand my concern about twins.
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Tambar
10/11/09

@ZioZio: It's the cervix, not the vagina & is a very common procedure in non-IVF cases as well. Just like pap smears don't really 'feel' like much, same for this procedure.
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Hippopotame begs you to promote her comments.
10/11/09

@ZioZio: It made me cross my legs and pray-pray-pray not to be in that boat in a few months (and I'm an atheist).
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Maritsa
10/12/09

@Hippopotame: what's that saying - there are no athiests in a foxhole? That's how I felt when I was pregnant. "Dear God, I'm pretty sure you're not real but in case you are, please let me have a healthy baby."
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LucilleMcGillicuddy
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
I am an adopted child and adoption is not
the same – it is not better or worse, it is
just different. I don't think it's fair
not to acknowledge adoption is a very
emotionally complicated endeavor. It is not
for everyone or some sort of quick fix for
infertility.
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AnotherJenn
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
To the "it seems selfish not to adopt" crowd I would like to say, it's selfish of you not to adopt too. Infertile couples do not have any more of a moral obligation than fertile people do to adopt special needs kids. Either we all have that obligation and you need to STFU and live out your professed values, or we all get to live our own lives the way we see best, without being judged by others. Especially those who have no idea what they are talking about.
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Maritsa
10/11/09

@AnotherJenn: A-fucking-men. "I don't know anything about adoption or IVF, but I really think IVF is selfish." OK then. God knows the world needs more uninformed opinions.
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Little Time Bomb
10/11/09

@Maritsa: I love you today, you're on fire! Seriously can you just adopt me? If you don't I think you're pretty selfish!
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Maritsa
10/11/09

@Little Time Bomb: This topic definitely gets me going more than any other! I don't think IVF is the answer for everyone and it isn't without problems, but it really isn't the business of anyone except the people involved. Both adoption and IVF are processes with pros and cons, and that choice is very personal.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
10/11/09

@AnotherJenn: Damn! Someone got told! Applause~
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killer panda
10/11/09

@AnotherJenn: Agreed. People with infertility do not have a special obligation to adopt that everyone else gets a pass on.

Anyone who says "just adopt" has obviously never tried to do it.
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midwesternmom
10/11/09

@AnotherJenn: And don't worry, if you do adopt, you are also selfish if don't adopt the right kind of child that the gripers have never adopted also. I am happy when anyone gets the family they want and have sought.
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wishingflower
10/11/09

In reply to Balancing The Risks And Benefits Of In-Vitro Fertilization
We adopted our son through the foster care system, and spent $900, of which $600 was reimbursed by the state. He does have significant medical needs, and he is guaranteed Medicaid until he is 18, which is really the only way we could afford to raise him. The cost of his medications runs about $3000 per month alone, not including doctor visits, tests, etc. It was more emotionally difficult than my two complicated pregnancies, and people contemplating adoption need to look at the emotional cost as well as the financial cost. Luckily we adopted in a state that prohibits overturning an adoption for ANY reason after one year, so we know his birth parents can't change their minds.
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Little Time Bomb
10/11/09

@wishingflower: You must be an amazing family!
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