Nathaniel Hawthorne had something to say about this sort of thing: "It would seem to be a desirable thing enough that I should have had a sufficient income to live comfortably upon for the rest of my life, without the necessity of labor; but, on the other hand, I might have sunk prematurely into intellectual sluggishness..."
Anyone else think "menses" when they see/hear the word Mensa? Then again I'm pretty retarded with mixing up words. After I went to medical school, I started reading mensa as 'mesna', a drug for severe bladder inflammation + bleeding after chemo.
Though just after I was diagnosed with dyslexia as a kid, I discovered dyslexia was an anagram for 'daily sex' (tehee)... but damn 8th grade teacher subjected me to a whole bunch of scary IQ/word tests after that, which I failed. Principal threatened to hold me back (though I did well in school), and thank god my mother had the sense to transfer me out asap. went to boarding school, ended up at Harvard, now a doctor, so fuck IQ tests! I'm fine now, but I still confuse simulate and stimulate in front of my patients :)
Aaaaaaand that's the attitude that has so many of the people on this board slamming Mensa, Dr. Jezebel didn't say a single disparaging thing about Mensa, except to talk about the word, and go on to talk about his/her own experiences with dyslexia and IQ tests.
I can see why you feel defensive, what with some of the comments here being completely inane. I am not in Mensa, but I also don't see any reason to assault the organization. That said, maybe you should reserve your "5 years of Latin" snark for someone who is Actually Attacking the organization you hold so dear.
@DoctorJezebel: I absolutely confuse menses and Mensa. Happens all the time. My brain does a sort of mental skip, and then a split-second later I realise that....is not the word that fits in that sentence. Whoops! But that's what we get for reading too quickly. ;-)
@RedVelvetCake: I don't know what my IQ is, but I can comfortably assure you that I am most definitely not clever enough to join Mensa. I never took Latin. I'm terrible at maths. Cryptic crossword puzzles enrage and confuzzle me. But I do have one thing going for me: I know when it's time to keep quiet and allow my arguments speak for themselves.
@yousername: Thanks, friend. I raise my cup of tea to your eloquence. And my biscuit. It's a good biscuit, too: a dark chocolate Hobnob. Dead posh.
It makes me squeamish when we try to put a number on an largely undefined and immeasurable quality (i.e. "intelligence") based upon the individual's ability to perform well on problems or tasks which are themselves based upon largely arbitrary predictors and in environmental conditions which are quite unlike conditions encountered in daily life. For one thing, the common usage of I.Q. assumes that "intelligence" is a simple, single characteristic or trait which can be defined and measured, rather than an inchoate cluster of skills and abilities which are employed together in a way to maximize a person's ability to interact with their environment - which is nowhere proven. This simple view of I.Q./intelligence strikes against what Binet himself said, that: "The scale, properly speaking, does not permit the measure of intelligence, because intellectual qualities are not superposable, and therefore cannot be measured as linear surfaces are measured."
Instead of intelligence, it tests the individual's "intelligence quotient," which really seems to be mostly a predictor of the individual's ability to do well in school, as well as standardized tests such as the SAT. My personal, completely biased opinion is that it seems to be a test whose results generally predict the individual's propensity to perform well on tests.
Or, basically, it's a largely useless thing that is highly overrated in our society.
Based upon all this, I figure that Marilyn Vos Savant has, at most, an obligation to do well on tests. I'm not entirely sure what potential good she could do humanity with that, but there you go.
I've been reading a bit about the British culture and the height of "making" it over there for hundreds of years was sitting around doing nothing. If you didn't have to lift a finger--to work or tie your shoe--you were at the top of the heap. I don't know about the overall culture there now, but it's very different than the American culture of business business business!
@Maulleigh: I think it takes a certain amount of smarts to convince everyone else that even though you don't do much you belong at the top of the heap 'cause god said so.
I'm a member of Mensa. I only joined for a short period of time so I could put it on my college applications to try and offset my average grades (worked!). I'm not really a genius, I'm just really good at taking tests. At the only Mensa meeting I've ever been to, someone berated me for an hour about drinking from a plastic bottle.
I got tested when I moved in second grade, and my mother hasn't ever told me the result. I just got put in the gifted program immediately. But you know, I could have an IQ of 75. I don't know.
Who knows--I'm 27 and a server and don't have my BA; BF tested at 154 and he's a bartender.
@elitza bleeds Cubbie blue: I you were in the gifted program your IQ is probably above 130. If they tested you individually and your test took a long time, you are quite smart.
People with IQ's of 75 are not likely to be computer savvy enough to get to Jezzie and enjoy it. Most computer chat people are high scorers in language and we probably have scorers in math from medium to high.
My husband's IQ is in your BF's range. There are concepts that he can describe to me that beyond a certain point I can't follow. He's a high scorer in Math as well. He has skills in music as well. I am a visual arts type and have intuitions that he doesn't get.
I have an above average IQ (I don't flaunt it around, though), but I was diagnosed with ADD, I had a speech delay as a kid, had social problems with my peers and really hated doing homework and classwork, so I wasn't seen as humbly smart. They were quick to put me into learning support classes and speech therapy (I don't blame them for the speech therapy), but after elementary school, I was on the same level as the rest of the kids in my grade, but the counselors at my school kept me in the learning support program, up until junior year of high school.
I was a rough child, but I was fairly clever. I could put together KNEX figures in record time and I came up with brilliant plans on getting cookies from the cookie jar. But because I had behavioral problems and a slight learning disability, it completely shadowed my potential.
A lot of smart people have social issues, not because they're "geeks", but because they might have social issues that have been overlooked. But that doesn't mean smart people can't have normal, productive lives. They just need more support and understanding from people.
I belonged to mensa briefly when I was a bit younger.
It was ok I guess. (It was nice to meet more people to play Go with.)
I'm brilliant and everyone seems to like me just fine. I try hard at whatever I'm doing. Being smart is never a curse but it's hardly the blessing people make it out to be. Life is just as hard, just in different ways.
And who says answering people's questions and having breakfast with the inventor of the artificial heart isn't a great achievement? In fact it's like she's a diplomat for eggheads everywhere. And that seems pretty good to me.
There are so many different kinds of intelligence that I think making any kind of vast numerical claim is a mistake. Which is why anyone saying I'm smart makes me very uncomfortable (aside from the deeply ingrained Midwestern aw-shucks factor): I am often a huge moron, and habitually am not at all smart in many ways. But I can do one heck of a textual analysis.
Being brilliant doesn't make you any more likely to have common sense, though. (says the genius who leaves the oven on regularly, and who can't figure out how to hook up the DVD/cable/VCR/TV combo without help)
AGH this is my roommate on some days. He has a near-photographic memory and is quite smart, but goddamn does he know it. It drives me fucking crazy. He wasn't very popular as a child and blamed it on people disliking how smart he was - in reality, it was that he has terrible social skills and can't make small talk. He is shy and won't interact with people he doesn't know well, making him look aloof and like a huge dickwad.
I hated him when I first met him, because I thought he was an arrogant douche. It took two months of being forced to hang out through odd circumstances that helped me see that he wasn't. But I never would have given him that chance had I not been basically forced to. A lot of these "smart" people who blame their lack of friends on how smart they are really just don't know how to communicate with people.
When we were kids, my sister and I made a graph. On the x-axis was intelligence. On the y-axis was people skills. It was kindof a bell curve, but we argued over that :D My father is a very book-smart kind of guy, but he sucks at understanding people and recently has started bitching about how he'll never get women. It makes me mad. Also, he just doesn't listen whatsoever and will interrupt you to tell you you're wrong. ARGH.
Intelligence in IQ doesn't measure a person's drive or will to succeed. It measures how well you retain information and respond to questions and measures basic functions, but it doesn't account for personality or anything like that.
04/14/09
04/13/09
Though just after I was diagnosed with dyslexia as a kid, I discovered dyslexia was an anagram for 'daily sex' (tehee)... but damn 8th grade teacher subjected me to a whole bunch of scary IQ/word tests after that, which I failed. Principal threatened to hold me back (though I did well in school), and thank god my mother had the sense to transfer me out asap. went to boarding school, ended up at Harvard, now a doctor, so fuck IQ tests! I'm fine now, but I still confuse simulate and stimulate in front of my patients :)
04/13/09
04/13/09
Aaaaaaand that's the attitude that has so many of the people on this board slamming Mensa, Dr. Jezebel didn't say a single disparaging thing about Mensa, except to talk about the word, and go on to talk about his/her own experiences with dyslexia and IQ tests.
I can see why you feel defensive, what with some of the comments here being completely inane. I am not in Mensa, but I also don't see any reason to assault the organization. That said, maybe you should reserve your "5 years of Latin" snark for someone who is Actually Attacking the organization you hold so dear.
04/14/09
@RedVelvetCake: I don't know what my IQ is, but I can comfortably assure you that I am most definitely not clever enough to join Mensa. I never took Latin. I'm terrible at maths. Cryptic crossword puzzles enrage and confuzzle me. But I do have one thing going for me: I know when it's time to keep quiet and allow my arguments speak for themselves.
@yousername: Thanks, friend. I raise my cup of tea to your eloquence. And my biscuit. It's a good biscuit, too: a dark chocolate Hobnob. Dead posh.
04/14/09
04/13/09
04/13/09
Instead of intelligence, it tests the individual's "intelligence quotient," which really seems to be mostly a predictor of the individual's ability to do well in school, as well as standardized tests such as the SAT. My personal, completely biased opinion is that it seems to be a test whose results generally predict the individual's propensity to perform well on tests.
Or, basically, it's a largely useless thing that is highly overrated in our society.
Based upon all this, I figure that Marilyn Vos Savant has, at most, an obligation to do well on tests. I'm not entirely sure what potential good she could do humanity with that, but there you go.
04/13/09
04/13/09
"How do you know he's a king?"
"Cause he hasn't got shit all over him".
04/13/09
Ah, that organization gives me the giggles every time.
04/13/09
04/13/09
04/13/09
04/13/09
I got tested when I moved in second grade, and my mother hasn't ever told me the result. I just got put in the gifted program immediately. But you know, I could have an IQ of 75. I don't know.
Who knows--I'm 27 and a server and don't have my BA; BF tested at 154 and he's a bartender.
04/13/09
People with IQ's of 75 are not likely to be computer savvy enough to get to Jezzie and enjoy it. Most computer chat people are high scorers in language and we probably have scorers in math from medium to high.
My husband's IQ is in your BF's range. There are concepts that he can describe to me that beyond a certain point I can't follow. He's a high scorer in Math as well. He has skills in music as well. I am a visual arts type and have intuitions that he doesn't get.
As a result we LOVE to talk to one another.
04/13/09
I was a rough child, but I was fairly clever. I could put together KNEX figures in record time and I came up with brilliant plans on getting cookies from the cookie jar. But because I had behavioral problems and a slight learning disability, it completely shadowed my potential.
A lot of smart people have social issues, not because they're "geeks", but because they might have social issues that have been overlooked. But that doesn't mean smart people can't have normal, productive lives. They just need more support and understanding from people.
04/13/09
It was ok I guess. (It was nice to meet more people to play Go with.)
I'm brilliant and everyone seems to like me just fine. I try hard at whatever I'm doing. Being smart is never a curse but it's hardly the blessing people make it out to be. Life is just as hard, just in different ways.
And who says answering people's questions and having breakfast with the inventor of the artificial heart isn't a great achievement? In fact it's like she's a diplomat for eggheads everywhere. And that seems pretty good to me.
04/13/09
04/13/09
04/13/09
Being brilliant doesn't make you any more likely to have common sense, though. (says the genius who leaves the oven on regularly, and who can't figure out how to hook up the DVD/cable/VCR/TV combo without help)
04/13/09
04/13/09
I hated him when I first met him, because I thought he was an arrogant douche. It took two months of being forced to hang out through odd circumstances that helped me see that he wasn't. But I never would have given him that chance had I not been basically forced to. A lot of these "smart" people who blame their lack of friends on how smart they are really just don't know how to communicate with people.
When we were kids, my sister and I made a graph. On the x-axis was intelligence. On the y-axis was people skills. It was kindof a bell curve, but we argued over that :D My father is a very book-smart kind of guy, but he sucks at understanding people and recently has started bitching about how he'll never get women. It makes me mad. Also, he just doesn't listen whatsoever and will interrupt you to tell you you're wrong. ARGH.
Intelligence in IQ doesn't measure a person's drive or will to succeed. It measures how well you retain information and respond to questions and measures basic functions, but it doesn't account for personality or anything like that.