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Does Phillip Garrido Deserve To Die?
If We Learn "Race," We Can Unlearn Race
New York, 12:00 AM
Fri Dec 11
66 posts in the last 24 hours
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Does Phillip Garrido Deserve To Die? |
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09/03/09
I don't have a good answer to this.
09/02/09
Sure, we could get a jury to give Garrido death, because he is obviously a dangerous person, and because it's pretty damn hard to "blame" his victims.
But most women who are raped aren't raped by crazy men with dungeons in their backyards.
It's already hard enough to get juries to put typical rapists--the "upstanding citizen", the "good boy with a bright future", the "family man"--in jail for a few years and "ruin his life forever". Death? No way.
And what about children who are abused by their own family members? Do we really think that bringing the death penalty into these cases will help victims and their families?
09/02/09
Many people think we're the scum of the earth for defending criminals, but everyone deserves a fair trial.
The death penalty is inhumane and out-dated. It may cost a lot to keep criminals in jail, but that should just spur us to fix our unequal societies so that we produce less crime.
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09/02/09
I work at prisons all the time. Not pleasant places, but outside of America where there is often a culture of rape, they aren't barbaric. If I were wrongfully convicted of a serious crime, I like to think my imagination, coupled with books and a pen and paper, would see me through. It would be a pale shadow of a free life, but it would be far better than death. You can't force mercy on those who disagree with what you consider mercy to be.
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09/02/09
I am by no means advocating putting people who are really guilty of such crimes into society. They scare the shit out of me. But I just want them locked up away from the general populace. Surely that is enough. (Though, of course, we then get into ethical questions about asking people to be employed as their guards.)
09/02/09
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09/02/09
There are cases of wrongful conviction, of course, and sometimes, as in the case of say, possession of marijuana, sending the person to prison is a waste of resources, but let's pretend for a second that our justice system is actually competent enough to sort out the guilty from the innocent.
I'm sure everyone will agree that some people deserve a second chance, and some deserve the death penalty or life imprisonment or no chance of redemption.
Let's face it. Money motivates a lot. A lot of times there's pressure to move inmates out because of the immense cost associated with prisons. The state of California wants to release a lot of its prisoners, albeit it for minor crimes, which I don't have a major issue with. It's not hard to believe that parole might be slightly easier to get when there's less money to keep the system going. It seems to me that if money wasn't an issue, there would be less overburdened law enforcement officers who could look at each case more stringently and maybe lower the rates of false conviction while keeping the psychos who have no hope of redemption off the streets.
09/02/09
09/02/09
I want my version of prison for people like cold blooded murderers and rapists, or the very rich like Madoff. I can't pity them. I just can't. At the same time, I don't know if the death penalty is the right decision for a society to make.
09/02/09
Sadly, the justice system really isn't perfect. We can't pretend that it is, because it is not. We can't pretend that because many people were found to be guilty by DNA testing, those who were found innocent don't count.
09/02/09
Reality is ugly. Human nature is ugly. I still think there's hope for the justice system though, at least through technological advances, to at least prevent the innocents from being convicted.
09/02/09
09/03/09
Okay, this comment reminded me of my criminal law class. I've noticed that when discussing the low quality of life in prisons, people immediately jump right to the murderers and rapists. The trouble with this is that murderers, rapists and violent criminals in general make up a minority of criminals in federal prison. Let's try your comment over again with the types of criminals most likely to suffer these conditions and see how it sounds:
"I couldn't give a damn if a pot dealer is coughing with a cold in prison because his blanket's not thick enough. Regardless of crime, prisoners are not there to enjoy their life, but to get punishment for harming society, and hopefully get motivated to not commit the same crime again. I have no pity for shop lifters or drug users or the get away drivers who are convicted and jailed. There are consequences for willfully harming a person."
Doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
09/02/09
As Jon Stewart said once, "my country is supposed to be better than me." No matter how much someone deserves to die, doesn't give me the right to stick in a syringe in their arm.
I used to be pro-death penalty, but the more I think about it, the more Texas strikes me as unbelievably arrogant. I love you sometimes, Texas, but sometimes you're like that dysfunctional uncle who doesn't know when to quit.
Texas nearly killed someone by the "party" law-that may not be its exact name. But they gave the death penalty to someone who was with a guy who shot another guy. There may have been robbery too, but the guy they wanted to kill was not the one who pulled the trigger. Perry didn't let him get executed, but claimed it was for some technical reason or some such.
09/02/09
09/02/09
I'm against the death penalty for all the usual reasons, but in addition to those, if they believe he might be involved in several murders, there's a chance he might be able to give the victims' families some closure. Also, there's a chance we might be able to learn from him and figure out what went wrong in his brain in order to maybe prevent things like this from happening in the future.
09/02/09
Please know that I'm not angry criticizing your statement - I simply don't agree and its a passionate, sensitive issue for all of us (as it should be).
I don't understand what you're suggesting.
-What closure will a victim's family get from a person who repeatedly kills? Often these people are sociopaths or have some other serious personality disorder, in the clinical sense. (As opposed to being gang/mob related - which is another complicated, but possibly related, matter.)
My personal example: Recently the old man who repeatedly sexually assaulted me as a child admitted his crime. His reasoning? He's a closeted homosexual and AT LEAST he didn't have sex with a man. No he just raped a young girl, so what's the big deal. I can't tell you what a huge slap in the face that was. This guy is sick, delusional, and violent. I got no "closure" at all. My issues that grew out of this abuse - sill there, possibly worse.
Another personal example: If anything like this happened to someone I loved, I wouldn't feel closure until I saw a look of absolute animal terror and pain in this man's face. But, none of us will ever see that (unless someone goes vigilante on this guy, which would make that person a criminal.)
- How will we learn from this person. Garrido claims that he is a good person. He thinks he can communicate via some sort of telecommunication. His account won't do much good, if we are looking for easy answers. We could look at his background, but its likely we could find out that information with or without his cooperation. He's not going to sit down and cooperate.
Believe me, I'm all from learning from others (Soc/Anthro major here, I'm biased) but not at the expense of public safety or my hard earned money keeping alive a person this dangerous, who will not almost certainly attack again.
- Keep him in prison and hope he donates his body to science at death.
-Ask him to volunteer for CAT scans while he's alve?
Point is, I don't see any good in keeping a repeat violent offender alive.
I understand that others feel differently. So, I'm glad Jez introduced this discussion.
I wrote more on my thoughts further down.
I think I've said enough for now.
But, I'll be checking in to read everyone else's POV.
09/02/09
09/03/09
I wouldn't feel comfortable discussing your personal examples, except as far as to say I am truly sorry someone hurt you like that.
As for the money to keep this guy alive, if costs a great deal more to put them to death, so I'm not sure that's something to worry about.
@Meiran: I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or not, but if you are, I think you missed my point there, since we seem to be in agreement. I was saying that they might get more closure keeping him alive because if he killed someone there's a chance the person's relatives might find out who the killer was, know that he's been put away for good, and also possibly know what happened to the body, as cate3710 said so eloquently, above.
09/02/09
Unless the judicial system totally fails here, Garrido won't see the outside world ever again, so explain to me why we need to feed, educate and give him better medical treatment than most needy citizens get, for the next 20-30 years. So yes, I am a supporter of the death penalty, but as a parent.. I reiterate, death is too good for him. Keep him alive as target practice for the rest of the inmates. I've read pedophiles are well liked for that.
09/02/09
Plus, I'm not comfortable with the State being the organ of vengeance and given the executions aren't deterrents or anything except a way to make people feel safer/better...I don't see the reason to keep normalizing that violence.
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09/02/09
I just do not believe that the state should have the right to murder criminals, even awful people like Garrido who frankly deserve to be taken out and shot, as far as I'm concerned. It's wrong. On top of that, it doesn't act as an effective deterrent (precisely because this is a man who cannot be rehabilitated) and it costs craploads of money. The state should lock him up and throw away the key.
09/02/09
1. It would not provide "closure" because there is no such thing in cases like that.
2. It would not provide "justice" any more than him rotting in prison will.
3. Killing him will never bring her back.
4. I lost my best friend. A mother and father lost their daughter. Two young people lost their sister. We all suffered over his actions. Killing him would only do that to his family as well and I never want another person to feel the way her family did when they lost her.
09/02/09
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09/02/09
What is the point of sentencing criminals in the first place? I'm serious. It seems nobody ever serves the whole thing; they're always released before they've served their time. THAT is why I'm so angry, and the easiest outlet is to just rant and scream that I want Garrido to die. What I want is for our system to get its fucking act together and prevent these completely preventable things from happening.
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09/02/09
The worst thing about this case is probably the fact that Garrido could operate so freely within the radar of the authorities who were supposed to keep an eye on him. Is almost like he wasn't even trying to dupe anyone, he was simply being himself and nobody cared to notice, ask questions or do any sort of follow-up. Which I guess makes the case both special and illustrative of the failures of law enforcement. And I realize this is also what provokes such visceral reactions, because it highlights every vulnerability people are exposed to by virtue of this failures.
09/02/09
09/02/09
As it is applied in the US currently there are a lot of problems, such as the innocence project has demonstrated. And I really do respect the work that they do.
As terrible as I think the premeditated murder or rape of a single innocent may be, I would NOT advocate for the death penalty for a criminal with such a record.
But when it comes to multiple counts of violent crime, Yes, the criminal should be put to death.
When it comes to multiple counts of kidnapping, rape, and torture, such as seems to be the case here, Or in cases of serial killings (again, its looking like this might be the case with Garrido) then I vote pro-death penalty.
And without apology.
We are a democracy, so obviously the majority will choose our crimes and punishments.
For me, those are unforgivable crimes. A person who does what Garrido has done is not worth the cost of rehabilitation (which is very rare in the case of violent sociopaths), imprisonment, or medical-institutionalization.
I think appeals should be prioritized (rushed), so that I and other tax payers don't have to waste money keeping such a person alive.
Now, currently Garrido is innocent until proven guilty. I'm at least ready to wait until he is found guilty to say he should die. But the day he is found guilty, I'm all for his life being ended by the state.
And for Fuck's sake. Our govts need to get all those people busted for marijuana out of prison. That will clear up at lot of space for violent criminals and govt.s won't be able to use the sick excuse of over-crowding in prisons.
Then all the violent criminals who deserve extremely long or life imprisonment, but perhaps not death, can serve out their damned sentencing!
09/02/09