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New York, 12:42 PM
Wed Nov 25
57 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    Didn't something like this just happen in Canada, finding child (or fetal) remains?
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of PersonalBest PersonalBest
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    Can anybody here theorize as to why some mothers keep the bodies of their children after murdering them?
     Reply
    PersonalBest was starred PersonalBest was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    06/16/09

    @PersonalBest: Maybe they think by keeping them close, they know where they are and won't be found? I'm sure there are other reasons but it could be a matter of not wanting to be caught.
     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of linnyt is a walking cliché linnyt is a walking cliché
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    There is a woman in the town I live in who had two of her children in her freezer. A third girl escaped the house and neighbors found her, injured and abused. When cops searched the mother's house they found the other two girls. The mother actually killed the girls earlier and moved across the state with them in the freezer. The weird part in this sick story is that they were all adopted. Can you get post-partum when you adopt children?
     Reply
    linnyt is a walking cliché was starred linnyt is a walking cliché was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    06/16/09

    @linnyt is a walking cliché: PPD isn't the only reason why some women kill their kids though, you know? There are plenty of other mental illnesses that could drive women to do something like this. I would guess a woman that killed her adopted kids had other problems, besides PPD.
     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    06/16/09

    @linnyt is a walking cliché: Wow, that is fucked up. Reminds me of Sylvia Likens' case. Or that family who had 'natural' children and foster children, and starved and abused the foster children so the teenagers looked like they were maybe 9 years old.
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of NewsBunny NewsBunny
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    That must have been a pretty big freezer.
     Reply
    NewsBunny was starred NewsBunny was unstarred
    Image of The Queen of No The Queen of No
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    I don't even know what to say... How could the husband be so totally oblivious? You're supposed to be married to your partner. That, to me, is the most disturbing part. But so fucking tragic all around.
     Reply
    The Queen of No was starred The Queen of No was unstarred
    Image of LaComtesse LaComtesse
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    I would imagine that doing this three times over the course of several years and multiple pregnancies is going to get a LOT of people who otherwise would have been sympathetic more hostile.
     Reply
    LaComtesse was starred LaComtesse was unstarred
    Image of HereComesMyBaby HereComesMyBaby
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    This would've been discovered a lot earlier if the husband cooked more.


    (But seriously this story freaks me out).

     Reply
    HereComesMyBaby was starred HereComesMyBaby was unstarred
    Image of dianersb was bit by a zombie dianersb was bit by a zombie
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    Sadie...did you mean Andrea Yates? Or was Andrew one of the kids?
     Reply
    dianersb was bit by a zombie was starred dianersb was bit by a zombie was unstarred
    Image of Eleanor Ramilly Eleanor Ramilly
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    Those who are anti-choice equate this with abortion. That thought really sickens me.
     Reply
    Eleanor Ramilly was starred Eleanor Ramilly was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    06/16/09

    @Eleanor Ramilly: Yep. Scary, huh?
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of inabook inabook
    06/16/09

    @Eleanor Ramilly: Its ridiculous, but it does make it easier to understand their position.


    I'm hoping that they find some serious mental illness, because I don't want to believe a fully healthy person would give birth, then murder her own children.

     Reply
    inabook was starred inabook was unstarred
    Image of PreposterousHypothesis PreposterousHypothesis
    06/16/09

    @Eleanor Ramilly: If you believe that a fetus is a full-fledged human at the point of conception, then technically it would be the same.


    To clarify, that's not my belief, but I think for some anti-choice individuals, that's exactly the issue.

     Reply
    PreposterousHypothesis was starred PreposterousHypothesis was unstarred
    Image of Eleanor Ramilly Eleanor Ramilly
    06/16/09

    @PreposterousHypothesis: I know, exactly.
     Reply
    Eleanor Ramilly was starred Eleanor Ramilly was unstarred
    Image of NefariousNewt NefariousNewt
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    The problem is: how do you detect this? How do you know which woman might be susceptible? Guys are not the most observant creatures in the world; even I had trouble tracking what my wife went through when she was pregnant with our daughter.


    What still has me astounded is that the husband never knew. Maybe it was more like he didn't want to know.

     Reply
    NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    06/16/09

    @NefariousNewt: He might be the type who doesn't even know what type of birth control his partner takes. Yes, they exist, in blissful ignorance (emphasis on the latter)
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of dianersb was bit by a zombie dianersb was bit by a zombie
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    I just can't believe the husband didn't suspect something was up.


    Your wife is preganant (and you don't know), gives birth (and you don't know), kills babies (and you don't know), and hides them in the freezer (and you don't know)?


    This just doesn't add up.

     Reply
    dianersb was bit by a zombie was starred dianersb was bit by a zombie was unstarred
    Image of PersonalBest PersonalBest
    06/16/09

    @dianersb was bit by a zombie: However, he did call the police after discovering the bodies (thinking that a visitor had left them there), which would be a strange thing to do if he were complicit.
     Reply
    PersonalBest was starred PersonalBest was unstarred
    Image of dianersb was bit by a zombie dianersb was bit by a zombie
    06/16/09

    @PersonalBest: True. I just have a hard time with the whole thing. I mean, this happened three times? I realize that most of us can be pretty oblivious, but that's some serious non-observation right there.
     Reply
    dianersb was bit by a zombie was starred dianersb was bit by a zombie was unstarred
    Image of PersonalBest PersonalBest
    06/16/09

    @dianersb was bit by a zombie: This is such a strange, strange case. I mean, even upon finding frozen bodies in my freezer, I'd really have a hard time thinking that a visitor to my house, someone that I knew, and had left them there without thinking that they would eventually be discovered and the police would be called.
     Reply
    PersonalBest was starred PersonalBest was unstarred
    Image of NewsBunny NewsBunny
    06/16/09

    @PersonalBest: Denial is a very powerful thing. Sometimes Mr. Denial -- who lives in the back of your brain -- steps forward while Mr. Logic tries to make sense of all the shit that's happening.
     Reply
    NewsBunny was starred NewsBunny was unstarred
    Image of gherkinfiend gherkinfiend
    06/16/09

    @dianersb was bit by a zombie: This article mentioned that the husband travelled a lot for work which might explain it more...


    [news.bbc.co.uk]


    There was also a similar case (but involving more babies) in Germany a few years ago that suggests the whole scenario is more common that thought


    [www.independent.co.uk]

     Reply
    gherkinfiend was starred gherkinfiend was unstarred
    Image of dianersb was bit by a zombie dianersb was bit by a zombie
    06/16/09

    @gherkinfiend: Okay, the travelling thing does help explain it more. I had assumed he was at home throughout the pregnancies. That helps explain how he could not have known what was going on.


    The article from the Independent is just disturbing. I never knew this happened so often!

     Reply
    dianersb was bit by a zombie was starred dianersb was bit by a zombie was unstarred
    Image of Penny_Esq Penny_Esq
    06/16/09

    @PersonalBest: Thinking a visitor left them there? What, like someone came over for tea with an extra-large handbag and stuffed a body in the freezer while the wife was in the bathroom? I guess it's possible it just seems so absurd.
     Reply
    Penny_Esq was starred Penny_Esq was unstarred
    Image of inabook inabook
    06/16/09

    @Penny_Esq has a new job!: Well, if the alternatives are a visitor or the woman you love, you'll go with the visitor, even if it is crazy. Admitting loved ones can do horrible things is very hard for a lot of people.
     Reply
    inabook was starred inabook was unstarred
    Image of gherkinfiend gherkinfiend
    06/17/09

    @dianersb was bit by a zombie: This is a really good article that sheds much more light...


    [news.bbc.co.uk]

     Reply
    gherkinfiend was starred gherkinfiend was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    I also don't like that an immediate line is drawn from murdering a child to PPD. PPD is incredibly serious and it certainly does not mean that a woman who kills her baby must have it. Co-morbidity aside, drawing these immediate conclusions further stigmatizes PPD.
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of Santos L Halper Santos L Halper
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    Sorry, guys, I'm normally the village idiot around here, but the dead baby jokes are kind of gross, even to me and my sick brain.
     Reply
    Santos L Halper was starred Santos L Halper was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: Especially because the babies were pretty violently killed before being frozen.
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of LaComtesse LaComtesse
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: THANK YOU.
     Reply
    LaComtesse was starred LaComtesse was unstarred
    Image of Slovenly Muse Slovenly Muse
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: Yeah, it is a bit much.


    Then again, the opportunities for dead baby jokes are so rare...

     Reply
    Slovenly Muse was starred Slovenly Muse was unstarred
    Image of Eleanor Ramilly Eleanor Ramilly
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: I thought so, too. It's one thing to snark, it's another to laugh at the expense of dead children.
     Reply
    Eleanor Ramilly was starred Eleanor Ramilly was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: I agree. There's really nothing funny about murdering children.
     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of Cerridwen Cerridwen
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: I kind of agree. I like black humour as much as anyone but for some reason, I draw the line at dead baby jokes.
     Reply
    Cerridwen was starred Cerridwen was unstarred
    Image of GirlFailer GirlFailer
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: It's really bizarre to feel the need to be flip about something like that. Like, Oh, I'm so unaffected by children, I can make jokes about their deaths. It's gross.
     Reply
    GirlFailer was starred GirlFailer was unstarred
    Image of PreposterousHypothesis PreposterousHypothesis
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: Joining the chorus here. I made a comment in the thread above. This is just not in good taste.
     Reply
    PreposterousHypothesis was starred PreposterousHypothesis was unstarred
    Image of debo matar la zombi goldberry83 debo matar la zombi goldberry83
    06/16/09

    @GirlSailor: I think in a lot of cases it's a sort of "Whistling past the graveyard" response: it's so horrible that people don't know exactly how to react, and so some people will make jokes, because it's too hard to really engage with the horror of it. (I say this as someone with serious inappropriate laughter syndrome; I giggle like a lunatic when I'm horrified).
     Reply
    debo matar la zombi goldberry83 was starred debo matar la zombi goldberry83 was unstarred
    Image of PreposterousHypothesis PreposterousHypothesis
    06/16/09

    @debo matar la zombi goldberry83: I know what you mean. However, we're not like in a social setting here. Inappropriate laughter is one thing; I've had it happen myself. If you want, write out the joke, have a good chuckle to relieve the tension. And then hit that little "x." I just question whether these jokes would be made in real life, and that's probably the litmus test of good taste.
     Reply
    PreposterousHypothesis was starred PreposterousHypothesis was unstarred
    Image of dreamweave dreamweave
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: I commented on this in the above thread trying to explain/justify why I made a joke. As someone on this thread said, for me this kind of dark humor is a coping mechanism for confronting horrible things - like murdering babies. I think part of my mistake in doing this is not in the making a joke at all, but making it in a forum of strangers who don't know me or the psychology behind my behavior.


    It's also true - and I don't know why this is - that if the story were about toddlers or older, I probably wouldn't have made a joke - I guess because babies are easier to de-personalize? I'm not saying this is rational, just noting it because now I'm all curious about what IS the line for dark humor? Because it's used a lot around here, but apparently there's an invisible line... I imagine it varies from person to person.....


    Just thinking.

     Reply
    dreamweave was starred dreamweave was unstarred
    Image of debo matar la zombi goldberry83 debo matar la zombi goldberry83
    06/16/09

    @PreposterousHypothesis: @JessJess: Yeah, you're right: there's way less excuse for that sort of knee-jerk, "Oh shit, that's awful, here's a joke so I can deflect it" reaction when you're typing out your comment instead of blurting it into a conversation at an unfortunate moment.
     Reply
    debo matar la zombi goldberry83 was starred debo matar la zombi goldberry83 was unstarred
    Image of PreposterousHypothesis PreposterousHypothesis
    06/16/09

    @dreamweave: That's a good question, and maybe one Hortense/the editors could help with. My personal litmus test is "would I tell this joke in a mixed crowd?" Of course Jezebel is somewhat of a like-minded community, so some things are going to fly better here than in real life...I won't go off-topic anymore, but it is something worth discussing I think.
     Reply
    PreposterousHypothesis was starred PreposterousHypothesis was unstarred
    Image of BabyJane BabyJane
    06/16/09

    @Santos L Halper: I'm with you.
     Reply
    BabyJane was starred BabyJane was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    My friends, this is what birth control and, if necessary, abortion, are for.
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of axel_f axel_f
    06/16/09

    @Penny: or counseling and proper medication?
     Reply
    axel_f was starred axel_f was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    06/16/09

    @axel_f: I was kind of assuming she wasn't using BC as she got pregnant three times and killed every time.
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of colormeroutine colormeroutine
    06/16/09

    In reply to French Woman Who Allegedly Froze Babies Goes To Trial
    "nearly 11"? Is one of them a half-woman?


    But anyway, infanticide is extremely common in nature. Animals kill their young if there isn't enough food around at that moment, if it's sickly-seeming, if a new male comes around...any number of reasons. We can think we've evolved past that all we want but the fact remains the impulse is still there for some people, for whatever reason, and they often DO know better and don't WANT to do it. Help need to be more available

     Reply
    colormeroutine was starred colormeroutine was unstarred
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