What's there to investigate? Was she loud or rude, or did she just make a request? She's entitled to be an asshole, just like every other customer, patron, patient, or client in the working world. Just don't be surprised when your nurse has to stab you a few times to hit your tiny, shriveled veins. #racism
So she wants a white staff like the nurse that left me hooked up to a machine, refusing to call the OBGYN on call, despite the fact that meconium was leaking from me.
The Chinese-American nurse who came on shift at 7:00 am immediately called the doctor and proceeded to rip the first nurse a new one in front of everyone on the floor.
Though it IS racist, I think that in that situation, the woman (and child's) care is the most important thing. ALL requests made by a scared and in-pain woman should be honored even if they seem in bad taste at the moment. #racism
@PoisonPixie: Hmm...what I've tried to say is that a person in a medical situation has the right to tell any doctor or nurse to not treat them for any reason. Her reason was unreasonable and stupid, but it's a slippery slope. If I don't want a doctor woking on me because he rubs me the wrong way, or I find him sexist, I have that right. What happens if we start denying that right for any reason? That was my only point....and I don't agree with her for one minute. #racism
@bowleserised: How do you charge someone for racism? If she was non-white and the hospital turned her away because of that, that would be one thing, but the other way around it's just one backwards crazy lady. #racism
@thesciencegirl: Now that I actually read the linked article (duh), I see that some hospital employees complained about how it was handled, and that the staff would like to have a specific plan in place for similar events in the future to make sure that employees do not experience discrimination. Makes sense. #racism
When I get around to doing clinicals (and then actual treating of patients) in the near future I wouldn't be surprised if this happened to me. Which is fine I would be happy not to treat a racist. If I were the only one around to help and they refused my help I would only be too happy to let them suffer/get worse/die (eek! I know). That would be one less I would have to deal with on this earth. Good riddance I say.
@Evie Havok: I've had my fair share of patients who didn't want to be treated by a woman. I always say its either me performing surgery or them dying a rather stupid and unfortunate death and I'm easy with both. They always give in. #racism
@AvaAdore: This. I love how many people seem to think the racist should be coddled. Fuck 'em. Let them die from their stupidity. People still bend over backwards for their asinine demands because they don't want a scene. That's why they still do a lot of this bullshit. If there were real consequences for their dumbass behavior, they'd find a way to join us in the 21st century. #racism
@Evie Havok: When people are sick, they aren't at their best. Especially older people who are experiencing dementia, who can become agressive assholes and say all kinds of things. I'm sure there's a policy laid out for abusive speech. It's one thing if a very sane patient with a sore throat calmly asks you to leave the room; but I suspect you'll get more trouble from the wacked out, drugged up homeless people. #racism
Oh man. We've been dealing with these issues in my family for a couple of years now. My grandfather has Parkinsons and my grandmother has Alzheimers. They are very lucky to be able to afford in-home care...but my grandmother is adamantly against any black helpers. She is a racist old woman who is a wonderful person in many other ways who had she been raised in different times and a different place she would have a different outlook. And, she also dislikes female home care workers because she thinks they are trying to steal my grandfather from her. But they live in the middle of nowhere and there is minimal options in terms of white male home care workers....so the solution we touched upon was to just tell her that the female white home care workers were tangentially related to us somehow ("this is your daughter in law's niece" and so forth) and that makes her trust them not to steal her husband.
Its sad, but like the patient advocate from the VA hospital said below, there are times when trying to change someones mind is useless. Especially when the someone has Alzheimers and even if you COULD make them see finally that skin color means nothing, they would just forget that realization five minute later and be back to disliking black people again. #racism
@lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black: That is a sad story but I don't think age is a reason to excuse people's attitudes. Everyone can change; white racists who resisted school integration in Little Rock grew to understand and regret their actions, apologize, and commit to fighting racism, for example. Others may have just changed their positions quietly, without fanfare. But people your grandmother's age lived through the civil rights movement and had ample opportunity to see the changes around them and accept them. Instead, they rejected them. I'm not trying to gang up on your grandmother; my grandfather was the same (he's dead now). My parents always wanted to brush his racist comments off, saying "oh, he's old and you can't change his ideas", but I guess I'm just more idealistic than that. (And, no, I didn't change his ideas, mainly because I was pretty young and I didn't understand how to have a real discussion about it that could be fruitful). #racism
@Hippopotame wants a star, dagnabbit!!!: There's a difference between old racists and old racists with a degenerative brain disease such as Alzheimer's or another form of dementia. People with Alzheimer's and dementia revert, in their disease-addled brains, to an earlier time in their life, because their ability to form new memories is the first thing they lose, and all they have left is memories of the past. Then the disease progresses, and the patients deteriorate to the point of unrecognizability. It's a tragic illness that must be considered in such cases as these, even if we want to be noble and say that no one should hold onto vile, racist beliefs. #racism
@sweet_communist: This is what I was going to say. the whole "old peoplecan move on" argument doesn't work when the old person in question is literally going back in time. And they're getting meaner and sicker and experiencing daily pain and discomfort. #racism
These issues are hard. I work in a VA hospital as a patient advocate, and we do sometimes get requests to change provider due to sex or ethnicity. While I think it's a load of crap and want to lecture the patient about tolerence and not being a backwards old fool, sometimes those requests are accomodated. Our patients are largely elderly. No amount of lecturing or education is going to change their beliefs about the quality of female or minority doctors. Most of our providers will honor a request made for those reasons because they feel that the patient's needs supercede theirs. A patient needs to have trust in their care team, and a ancient old man who thinks that "those girls" aren't as good as a man is going to have a lousy relationship with his doctor. Basically, we take the position that crotchety, sexist, racist old farts need care too, and so we'll sometimes honor their stupid requests.
To be fair, not all of them are for totally stupid reasons. A lot of our dementia patients served in the Pacific during WWII, they tend to respond very poorly to Asian doctors. We're having trouble with new veterans having violent reactions or flashbacks with south asian or middle eastern doctors on some of our behavioral health units. Some of these guys experienced really terrible things in combat, and being treated by someone who looks like the people they experienced with sets them off. It's not necessarily racism, but it is combat induced PTSD, often combined with other psychological issues. And in those cases, it can be a question of staff safety too.
Vets are a special population, and we work hard to accomodate them, but I struggle with those requests when they come in. #racism
This actually used to happen when I worked at a place that held children's parties as a hostess- parents couldn't imagine little Timmy's party hostessed by a non-white staff member.
We actually had to change it if they asked, despite management hating the idea. It wasn't worth it- pissing off the parents just ruined it for the kids on their birthdays, who had no say about which asshats gave birth to them. #racism
@eleanorstrousers: I understand not wanting to ruin kids' parties, but honoring racist requests is textbook hostile work enviornment (assuming this job was in the U.S). It's a wonder your management didn't get sued out of existence, and I feel really sorry for those no white employees who had to work someplace that let people treat them like they were less than human. #racism
This is really interesting. In Canada, several hospitals that are affiliated with religious groups, they can request treatment compatible with their religious beliefs:
Caregiver Preference
49. Patients may be given their preference with regard to their caregivers on the basis of gender, religion, and applicable treatment needs. Patient requests regarding their caregivers which contravene the Human Rights Code will not be met.
The human rights code says:
Every person has a right to equal treatment with respect to employment without discrimination because of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, age, record of offences, marital status, family status or disability.
So if you're a woman, you can request a female nurse/physician, with no guarantee this will be met. If you are Jewish and would like a Jewish doctor, same deal. But you can't request "no black people" or "no women".
Anecdotally, if a patient is totally a racist or sexist asshole, sometimes they get their way if an employee feels uncomfortable being around this person, but often you just suck it up and see the asshole. When people are in a hospital, they can feel pretty small, or stressed, or victimized, and they do crazy things to feel in control, so you figure it's more about them then you.
However, if someone is being totally disrespectful, profane, violent or threatening violence, I've seen the cops called and the person dragged out.
@funzette: You can request female doctors in some cases in the UK too. You can also request that you not be attended or watched by a student doctor, or you can ask specifically for a female student if you don't want a guy. My sis (student doc) says this can actually be tough on the boys when they do their Obs/Gyn rotations, since they often find it hard to get anyone to let them help with births! #racism
@KLondike5: That's what I thought, but my sister says it's women of all religions and ethnicities. To be fair, I understand that. I have a female gynaecologist and would probably be a bit squicked out by a male. And giving birth is, by all accounts, pretty damn gross. Probably the last thing you want is some 21 year old goon of a med student staring at your vadge while you bleed and push and poop yourself. #racism
@rah29: I've always chosen female OB/GYNs, but if I rolled into a hospital in labor, I'd take whomever was on shift. My daughter was nearly delivered by a male OB I had never met before, but my doc made it to the hospital in time.
I didn't give a damn as long as the doctor was competent, but I can see how someone with body issues or raised in a much more modest culture might freak out about having a strange man's hand up your vadge. #racism
I've never been pregnant, but it seems to me that when I am in labor, in need of a doctor and drugs to help pop a bowling ball-sized person out of my hoohah, is not the time to piss off the medical staff. #racism
@willwriteforfood: Seriously. I have been there and even were I inclined to be a bigot I don't think I would have been then. I wouldn't have cared if they sold tickets. I didn't care about anything. #racism
@redqueenmeg: Seconded. I had a 19 hour labor and I don't even remember if was wearing my hospital gown for most or any of it. Just was not the priority at the time. #racism
When I was working as a Nurse's Aid in high school we had some elderly patients like this, who demanded a white person change their sheets. My boss always sent me in and I acted extra campy and flamboyant just to piss them off. #racism
My grandmas workaround? Claiming that Hispanic nurses "beat her" - even though this was easily proven wrong, of course they kept them out of the room out of fear from lawsuits (not that anyone else in my family would entertain filing any such thing). #racism
@CurtCole: I was a nurse's aid in high school, too. I grew up in an area where most people are of Scandinavian origin and are thus blonde. I have very dark hair, light skin, and brown eyes, and some of the old men who couldn't see all that well refused to have "that Jap nurse" take care of them. #racism
@morninggloria: Yikes! I have dark hair and eyes and was obsessed with tanning at the time (I was 16) so I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few racial slurs said under their elderly breath. #racism
@tinydundie42: I was every bit as sassy, though I lacked the eloquent monologues that only an erudite playwright like Tony Kushner could provide. #racism
I fail to see the need for an "investigation" by the hospital on how to handle this in the future. It sounds like it was handled pretty well without lengthy paperwork. Say "No you racist ass" and provide her with medical care. They also said this was the first time this has ever happened. Note-worthy, sure. I’d love for the woman’s name to be published so everyone knows what a dick she is. But other than that, this is the prattling of a racist moron. #racism
@LaComtesse: Just to play devils advocate....considering that her comfort level could in fact have an effect on how her pregnancy progresses, is providing this patient with an all white staff a reasonable accomodation? If it was just her and any other medical procedure, I would say NO. But, a baby is involved. Imagine the mother is so damned racist that being attended by a racial diverse staff is indeed traumatic to her and results in things like increased blood pressure or hyperventilating or something else. Could these kind of responses cause fetal distress? I don't know. But should the mother, a jerk, be accomodated in order to protect the innocent baby who had nothing to do with her disgusting request?
I don't have an answer to that, just asking the question. #racism
@lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black: I'm imaginging a mother who rolled into the hospital, drunk off her ass and off her psych meds, spewing attention-getting shit she thought would get her bumped up on the waiting list.
(k, actually, she said it ust before her c-section. So the drugs were prolly for the pain and such. but still, it's not like she was in her right mind, she was spread out like a Thanksgiving turkey about to have a cornish hen yanked out of her middle.) #racism
How committed to racism is this woman that she would request an all-white staff in a hospital *in England*!? Isn't being in a hospital in England pretty much a guarantee of a mostly white staff anyway? England has some diversity to be sure, but it isn't exactly Los Angeles. #racism
@telecomic the thoughtful red panda: Parts of England are extremely ethnically diverse, plus since the 50s it has been government policy here to encourage medical staff from all over the world (particularly the Carribean and Philippines) to come and work for the NHS. This means even predominantly white areas will have an ethnic mix in healthcare services.
Combine that with strong discrimination laws in the UK and you have nil chance of an all white staff in a hospital. Even privately she couldn't avoid this if she needed medical intervention beyond just a midwife. #racism
@telecomic the thoughtful red panda: Sorry but that's not really accurate. I've spent a lot of time in NHS hospitals in London lately (my boyfriend's grandad just died) and I think I've met maybe one white nurse out of dozens--though I'll admit that the doctors are usually either white or Asian (which refers to south Asia in Britspeak, not east Asia the way it does in the US). Parts of England are extremely diverse; 1 in 3 Londoners are foreign-born and over 300 languages are spoken in London primary schools.
Milton Keynes, to be fair though, not so much. Pretty much all there is in Milton Keynes are roundabouts and sheep. #racism
@telecomic the thoughtful red panda: No, England is not LA. But it is still has racial diversity, especially in the cities, and the NHS is well known for the huge numbers of dedicated nurses and doctors from all over the world it employs. It is often said that without it's Asian* staff, the NHS would collapse overnight. So, no, going to a hospital in the UK is not a guarantee of a mostly white staff.
*'Asian' in the UK, usually refers to people from the Indian sub-continent. #racism
@rah29: My friend, a black woman, was an Obgyn in Milton Keynes. She has since moved to an even less diverse Banbury. My point, you'll be hard pressed to find all-white hospital. #racism
@sshacker: You're quite right. I was only making fun of Milton Keynes. After all, there's a bus stop there too (OK I will stop with the MK-bashing now, I promise... It's just so easy). #racism
@sshacker: I drove through once. I felt so sick afterwards from all the damn roundabouts!
I do have a friend from MK who managed to convince a load of American students that his father was the Lord of Milton Keynes. It was a bit of a harsh joke, but it was so difficult not to burst into hysterical laughter whenever it came up. #racism
@telecomic the thoughtful red panda: Not at all. There is a lot of diversity in england. And there is a lot of racism. Just look at the recent surge in popularity for the British National Party. #racism
@gherkinfiend, et al... My dad and his family are from Leeds and Manchester originally, before coming to America in the 1960s and `70s. I know that England has minorities, just not nearly as many as the U.S. In America, we occasionally hear about such racists that refuse to be treated by a black doctor or a nurse from Puerto Rico. Seems weird that such a request would come from the much whiter-England.
Then again, some of the most bizarre white-only folks I ever met were in Iowa, which is 96 to 98% white.
In any event, my lame attempt at societal comedy aside, it still reminds me of this picture done by an ad adency a few years ago... #racism
She clearly didn't think this through. How can she be sure the sheets and fixtures in the room weren't made by non-whites? What about the medical instruments? Gloves? Her racism is all "here and now" with no concerns about the supply chain. Lazy racist.
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The Chinese-American nurse who came on shift at 7:00 am immediately called the doctor and proceeded to rip the first nurse a new one in front of everyone on the floor.
She saved my and my baby's lives. #racism
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Kinda flies in the face of Hippocrites though. #racism
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I'm not excusing, just bringing up a possibility. #racism
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Its sad, but like the patient advocate from the VA hospital said below, there are times when trying to change someones mind is useless. Especially when the someone has Alzheimers and even if you COULD make them see finally that skin color means nothing, they would just forget that realization five minute later and be back to disliking black people again. #racism
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To be fair, not all of them are for totally stupid reasons. A lot of our dementia patients served in the Pacific during WWII, they tend to respond very poorly to Asian doctors. We're having trouble with new veterans having violent reactions or flashbacks with south asian or middle eastern doctors on some of our behavioral health units. Some of these guys experienced really terrible things in combat, and being treated by someone who looks like the people they experienced with sets them off. It's not necessarily racism, but it is combat induced PTSD, often combined with other psychological issues. And in those cases, it can be a question of staff safety too.
Vets are a special population, and we work hard to accomodate them, but I struggle with those requests when they come in. #racism
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We actually had to change it if they asked, despite management hating the idea. It wasn't worth it- pissing off the parents just ruined it for the kids on their birthdays, who had no say about which asshats gave birth to them. #racism
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Caregiver Preference
49. Patients may be given their preference with regard to their caregivers on the basis of gender, religion, and applicable treatment needs. Patient requests regarding their caregivers which contravene the Human Rights Code will not be met.
The human rights code says:
Every person has a right to equal treatment with respect to employment without discrimination because of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, age, record of offences, marital status, family status or disability.
So if you're a woman, you can request a female nurse/physician, with no guarantee this will be met. If you are Jewish and would like a Jewish doctor, same deal. But you can't request "no black people" or "no women".
Anecdotally, if a patient is totally a racist or sexist asshole, sometimes they get their way if an employee feels uncomfortable being around this person, but often you just suck it up and see the asshole. When people are in a hospital, they can feel pretty small, or stressed, or victimized, and they do crazy things to feel in control, so you figure it's more about them then you.
However, if someone is being totally disrespectful, profane, violent or threatening violence, I've seen the cops called and the person dragged out.
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I didn't give a damn as long as the doctor was competent, but I can see how someone with body issues or raised in a much more modest culture might freak out about having a strange man's hand up your vadge. #racism
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My grandmas workaround? Claiming that Hispanic nurses "beat her" - even though this was easily proven wrong, of course they kept them out of the room out of fear from lawsuits (not that anyone else in my family would entertain filing any such thing). #racism
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I don't have an answer to that, just asking the question. #racism
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(k, actually, she said it ust before her c-section. So the drugs were prolly for the pain and such. but still, it's not like she was in her right mind, she was spread out like a Thanksgiving turkey about to have a cornish hen yanked out of her middle.) #racism
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Combine that with strong discrimination laws in the UK and you have nil chance of an all white staff in a hospital. Even privately she couldn't avoid this if she needed medical intervention beyond just a midwife. #racism
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Milton Keynes, to be fair though, not so much. Pretty much all there is in Milton Keynes are roundabouts and sheep. #racism
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*'Asian' in the UK, usually refers to people from the Indian sub-continent. #racism
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I do have a friend from MK who managed to convince a load of American students that his father was the Lord of Milton Keynes. It was a bit of a harsh joke, but it was so difficult not to burst into hysterical laughter whenever it came up. #racism
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@gherkinfiend, et al... My dad and his family are from Leeds and Manchester originally, before coming to America in the 1960s and `70s. I know that England has minorities, just not nearly as many as the U.S. In America, we occasionally hear about such racists that refuse to be treated by a black doctor or a nurse from Puerto Rico. Seems weird that such a request would come from the much whiter-England.
Then again, some of the most bizarre white-only folks I ever met were in Iowa, which is 96 to 98% white.
In any event, my lame attempt at societal comedy aside, it still reminds me of this picture done by an ad adency a few years ago... #racism
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::headdesk:: #racism