The Haunting of Hill House was such a cool book to read when I was an adolescent. I remember the less sad/creepy parts about Eleanor were really interesting--mainly her stories about her lion bookends and the mug that has stars in the bottom. It really resonated with me, this idea that someone who has a sheltered, dreary life like Eleanor would find solace in beautiful objects in her home. I suspect some part of that is what informs my decorating whenever I move into a new place.
Also, how much did The Haunting the movie suck in comparison? I loved it because of the actors and all, but completely removing the idea that Eleanor had at least some underlying psychosis made it so namby-pamby. #shirleyjackson
@kellybones: There was a much better earlier film adaptation -- I don't know if it's out on video, though: [en.wikipedia.org] I saw it as a child, and still remember how much it affected me. #shirleyjackson
@MissNormaDesmond: Oh, it's definitely out on video and DVD. It's an extremely well-regarded classic and was directed by Robert Wise. The movie he directed right after this was The Sound of Music. That would be a great double feature, I think. #shirleyjackson
@nozer: The Haunting of Hill House with Julie Harris and Claire Bloom is one of the scariest movies I've ever seen, Julie Harris was perfect in the role of Eleanor. Horror used to be done so much better, think of the Turn of the Screw with Deborah Kerr, no blood or gore but still terrifying. #shirleyjackson
@nozer: I discovered that when I subsequently went and looked at the IMDb page, which made me feel sort of chuffed, like, "Hey, look, apparently I have good taste." In a way, though, I think it speaks even more highly of the film that someone who saw it nearly 40 years ago and was totally unaware of the critical reaction to it was so affected by it. #shirleyjackson
@MissNormaDesmond: That's awesome. It seems like it's so hard these days to go watch a movie without any sort of preconceived notions about it, but that can often make for a much better viewing experience. #shirleyjackson
I think the biography Private Demons is sloppily written and that Shirley Jackson deserves better. I have been thinking this for about five years now. I'd prefer a more credulous look at her life, including her belief in magick; I also want an in-depth literary biography, encompassing all her works, both dark and light.
One of these days I will write my epic screed about how "pretty" female authors such as Edna St. Vincent Millay and Zelda Fitzgerald get full on, in depth biographies whereas Shirley Jackson--who is called a "monster" in the biography because she's overweight--gets a biography that feels like a tabloid slapdash affair.
I am perplexed by the book cover displayed in this article. What does a "demon lover" have to do with The Lottery?
Also, I think the fact that I am filled with creeping dread by almost every one of Shirley Jackson's short story titles is a testament to her power and gift as a writer. See for yourself: [en.wikipedia.org]#shirleyjackson
@SlayBelle: Oh. I was beginning to hope there was a story about a hellish fiend who made off with his girlfiend's (that was a typo and then I decided I liked it) underthings.
I have to read more Shirley Jackson is the awesome moral of this story. #shirleyjackson
@sweet_communist: As others have pointed out, yes, there's some relevance between the subtitle and the stories. However, the choice of cover art and the highlighting of that title are also all about the pulp paperback market, which generally tended toward the salacious; books that didn't really fit that image often got a gratuitously and incongruously spicy paperback jacket. #shirleyjackson
One of my favorite authors of all time. I used to have several feet of Stephen King on my bookshelf, but The Haunting of Hill House is still the only book that has made me so afraid I cried while reading it. (It's the line where Eleanor asks Theodora, "Whose hand was I holding?" for those of you who're familiar with it. I seriously just shuddered involuntarily.)
It's unfortunate that "The Lottery" is her best-known story, for it's also one of her least nuanced pieces and isn't representative of the intricacy she was capable of. I've read Hangsaman several times and still don't feel I have a solid grasp on the ending.
I recently reread The Bird's Nest and was wondering if Jackson was plagued by mental illness herself--there are a few scenes that I can't bring myself to believe could have been compellingly written by a sane person. I'll have to read her biography now. Jackson's work is amazing but it must have been hell to live in her head. I wonder if, had she been born a half-century later, we would have been privileged to have her body of work to enjoy or if it would she would have been medicated into sanity by psychopharmacology. It feels almost selfish to take such pleasure in books that were the product of her inner torment.
(I don't really have a central point here, I just can't not comment on a Shirley Jackson post.) #shirleyjackson
@cirocco: I need to read more Shirley Jackson. I wish I hadn't read a synopsis of We Have Always Lived in the Castle last night, because I'm not sure I'll be able to enjoy it as much when aware of the twist ending.
Have you read The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman? That's another great short story written by a woman, featuring mental illness, an unreliable narrator, and abounding creepiness.
@sweet_communist: That's another good tale; I read it during my Female Mental Patient Literature stage years back (along with copious amounts of Sylvia Plath and Zelda Fitzgerald.)
I don't think good literature loses its impact when one knows the ending. I've gone into every Shakespeare play knowing its conclusion (as did his contemporary audience, since none of his stories save The Tempest was original.) They were still awesome. (I guess I don't have any way of knowing how awesome they'd be if I went in cold, though.) #shirleyjackson
@cirocco: I have a soft spot in my heart for Sylvia Plath, as she went to the same college as I. In fact, during my first year, the house where she lived hosted a haunted house and they decorated their basement as a mental asylum, and got one of the residents to play Sylvia. It was a tribute of love and admiration, I think, more than derision.
That's an excellent point! Now I'm looking forward to reading it even more. #shirleyjackson
@cirocco: did you read the Sundial? That was my favorite that no one had seemed to read. It's about a family waiting in this house for the world to end. #shirleyjackson
@tracylynn: I have, but not for years, and I've forgotten everything but the broad outline of its premise. Time to revisit it!
(I just pulled it off my shelf, and there was a slip of paper tucked inside that read "Thanks, [cirocco], Susan and Joleen." Now I'm all freaked out! What were Susan and Joleen thanking me for? Reading too much Shirley Jackson makes everything seem ominous.) #shirleyjackson
I (heart) her so much. Reading the Lottery as a sophmore in high school kicked off our love affair -- I ended up writing my junior thesis on her, to the surprise of just about the entire English department. Apparently no one had ever picked her as their subject before (our junior year you worked on a year long thesis project to teach research skills).
I've been the head of the community book group for almost 8 years now and I try to convince them every year to read one of her books but no one ever wants to. If they even know who she is, all Jackson is is the woman who 'wrote that creepy short story'.
I have been on such a Shirley Jackson kick this year: Come Along with Me, Just an Ordinary Day, The Road through the Wall, Hangsaman--The Bird's Nest is on my bedside table, along with The Haunting of Hill House (and I DVR'd The Haunting (original)--now I just have to get brave enough to watch it!), plus I reread Life Among the Savages and Raising Demons about twice a year. I just love her. (Also, she wrote the very first book I read about the Salem witch trials.)
LOL at that cover, though.
Also, I was making a booklist for my mom's church booksale (seriously, I love that she'll sell pretty much anything I rec--Good Omens, His Dark Materials, woot!) and she likes me to compile crib sheets with plot summaries and reviews, and one book was compared to WHALITC, and it made NO sense, other than it was about two sisters. Very bizarre. (The book was The Song Reader, by Lisa Tucker, a fairly lovely little novel, but a totally different genre.) #shirleyjackson
The creepiest thing about The Lottery (to me, at least): after it was published, the New Yorker got hundreds of letters inquiring which town the ritual was held in and when they might be able to go watch it. Really. #shirleyjackson
@la.donna.pietra: I knew they'd had more complaint correspondence about it than any other story (even her parents wrote to her to say they didn't like it) but I didn't realise people had thought it was real. #shirleyjackson
@la.donna.pietra: Have you read her lecture/essay about it? I think it's printed in Come Along With Me--there are some excerpts from letters and just. . .wow. #shirleyjackson
I think I saw this phenomenon before - it's pretty common in the J-Horror genre, like the original versions of "The Ring" and "The Grudge"
On a personal note, I thought the Ring was the scariest movie EVAR and I cried like a little girl through most of the Grudge, so maybe I am too wimpy to be talking about horror movies
The new Manic Pixies? I doubt it. Maybe I'm crabby b/c my electronic hookups haven't decided whether they're all going to malfunction at once and leave me out of touch, but to me it just sounds like SS, DD.
Speaking of "Strange Girls", has anyone else read or heard of "Wait 'Til Helen Comes" or "The Girl with the Silver Eyes"...those girls were my first introduction into the creepy girl genre.
I think the difference is agency, and this will vary from story to story. MPG's generally have no agency or function unto themselves. They simply offer non-reciprocated emotional support to the Emotionally Stunted Man Child, and have "quriks" that substitute for actual personalities and layering. I haven't yet seen a movie that was actually about the MPG, mostly because she's a male fantasy and generally only functions to "teach him an important lesson about love and life"...not be a whole person unto themselves.
Although it depends, I'd say the "strange girls" almost always have an actual personality, a past or history to overcome, and are usually given agency through the narrative when they're the main, arguably heroic character. When they're an ancillary character, or the "enemy" they usually have way less in terms of agency or characterization, and are either victims seeking revenge and hence bad (The Ring) or just victims.
Carrie is an interesting example because she can be read very differently, depending on the film or book version...and even the film has some ambiguity. In the book Carrie is a strange and conflicting mix of sympathetic and irritating. She's victimized in a way that suggests the "hive mind" of mobs...find the weakest and attack. Only she ends up finding some agency, but takes her revenge too far, so she's punished with her eventual death.
To me, the problem is less the archetype and more the lack of exploration of the archetype. Same with stereotypes. You can effectively use any stereotype if you're willing to explore it and use it as a base to be built on. The problem is when the character is only the archetype or stereotype, with no fleshing out.
@tiredfairy: TiredFairy, I really love how you delved into this. My personal issue with "Carrie" (and developing this idea out further) is that I think Steven King's work is ex-treme-ly mysogynistic, to the point where I will argue this at length!
It also seems to fit well with the, shoot what's the archetype for the literary female character that is "perfect?" Similar to Bella's character in Twilight there is no rationale for their uniqueness or perfection, it's just defined as being.
Here, the strange girls are somehow presented as powerful through their secrecy and preternatural understanding of the supernatural. Thus, they arise above the "medicority" and "normalcy" most teenage girls (and hell, some adult) fear.
@Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka: On another note, I so wanted to be the girl that walked down the street and someone starts pointing at me, gasping, telling me of what great power I hold or will come to possess.
Happened to me finally, two years ago in Downtown LA. Sadly, it was not at all what I dreamed. Mainly, because the bearer of such word was clearly schizophrenic.
10/30/09
Also, how much did The Haunting the movie suck in comparison? I loved it because of the actors and all, but completely removing the idea that Eleanor had at least some underlying psychosis made it so namby-pamby. #shirleyjackson
10/30/09
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10/29/09
One of these days I will write my epic screed about how "pretty" female authors such as Edna St. Vincent Millay and Zelda Fitzgerald get full on, in depth biographies whereas Shirley Jackson--who is called a "monster" in the biography because she's overweight--gets a biography that feels like a tabloid slapdash affair.
HARRUMPH. #shirleyjackson
10/30/09
10/29/09
Also, I think the fact that I am filled with creeping dread by almost every one of Shirley Jackson's short story titles is a testament to her power and gift as a writer. See for yourself: [en.wikipedia.org] #shirleyjackson
10/29/09
10/29/09
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10/30/09
I have to read more Shirley Jackson is the awesome moral of this story. #shirleyjackson
10/30/09
10/29/09
It's unfortunate that "The Lottery" is her best-known story, for it's also one of her least nuanced pieces and isn't representative of the intricacy she was capable of. I've read Hangsaman several times and still don't feel I have a solid grasp on the ending.
I recently reread The Bird's Nest and was wondering if Jackson was plagued by mental illness herself--there are a few scenes that I can't bring myself to believe could have been compellingly written by a sane person. I'll have to read her biography now. Jackson's work is amazing but it must have been hell to live in her head. I wonder if, had she been born a half-century later, we would have been privileged to have her body of work to enjoy or if it would she would have been medicated into sanity by psychopharmacology. It feels almost selfish to take such pleasure in books that were the product of her inner torment.
(I don't really have a central point here, I just can't not comment on a Shirley Jackson post.) #shirleyjackson
10/29/09
Have you read The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman? That's another great short story written by a woman, featuring mental illness, an unreliable narrator, and abounding creepiness.
10/29/09
I don't think good literature loses its impact when one knows the ending. I've gone into every Shakespeare play knowing its conclusion (as did his contemporary audience, since none of his stories save The Tempest was original.) They were still awesome. (I guess I don't have any way of knowing how awesome they'd be if I went in cold, though.) #shirleyjackson
10/29/09
That's an excellent point! Now I'm looking forward to reading it even more. #shirleyjackson
10/31/09
11/01/09
(I just pulled it off my shelf, and there was a slip of paper tucked inside that read "Thanks, [cirocco], Susan and Joleen." Now I'm all freaked out! What were Susan and Joleen thanking me for? Reading too much Shirley Jackson makes everything seem ominous.) #shirleyjackson
10/29/09
10/29/09
I've been the head of the community book group for almost 8 years now and I try to convince them every year to read one of her books but no one ever wants to. If they even know who she is, all Jackson is is the woman who 'wrote that creepy short story'.
Thanks for this article! #shirleyjackson
10/29/09
LOL at that cover, though.
Also, I was making a booklist for my mom's church booksale (seriously, I love that she'll sell pretty much anything I rec--Good Omens, His Dark Materials, woot!) and she likes me to compile crib sheets with plot summaries and reviews, and one book was compared to WHALITC, and it made NO sense, other than it was about two sisters. Very bizarre. (The book was The Song Reader, by Lisa Tucker, a fairly lovely little novel, but a totally different genre.) #shirleyjackson
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/30/09
10/30/09
01/26/09
On a personal note, I thought the Ring was the scariest movie EVAR and I cried like a little girl through most of the Grudge, so maybe I am too wimpy to be talking about horror movies
01/26/09
01/26/09
01/26/09
01/26/09
01/26/09
Although it depends, I'd say the "strange girls" almost always have an actual personality, a past or history to overcome, and are usually given agency through the narrative when they're the main, arguably heroic character. When they're an ancillary character, or the "enemy" they usually have way less in terms of agency or characterization, and are either victims seeking revenge and hence bad (The Ring) or just victims.
Carrie is an interesting example because she can be read very differently, depending on the film or book version...and even the film has some ambiguity. In the book Carrie is a strange and conflicting mix of sympathetic and irritating. She's victimized in a way that suggests the "hive mind" of mobs...find the weakest and attack. Only she ends up finding some agency, but takes her revenge too far, so she's punished with her eventual death.
To me, the problem is less the archetype and more the lack of exploration of the archetype. Same with stereotypes. You can effectively use any stereotype if you're willing to explore it and use it as a base to be built on. The problem is when the character is only the archetype or stereotype, with no fleshing out.
01/26/09
01/26/09
Here, the strange girls are somehow presented as powerful through their secrecy and preternatural understanding of the supernatural. Thus, they arise above the "medicority" and "normalcy" most teenage girls (and hell, some adult) fear.
01/26/09
Happened to me finally, two years ago in Downtown LA. Sadly, it was not at all what I dreamed. Mainly, because the bearer of such word was clearly schizophrenic.
01/26/09
01/26/09
01/26/09