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New York, 10:04 AM
Mon Dec 21
22 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of SouthernGal98 SouthernGal98
    11/12/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    I can't speak with any authority to high glitz child pageants - they didn't really exist when I was a kid. However, I can say from experience that some of the essayists defending child pageants are right on target. When I was three, I begged my mother to let me participate in a local cute kid contest, which she begrudgingly did. I was hooked. I did hundreds of pageants during my childhood and loved every minute of dressing up, meeting new people and performing onstage. I was not pushed to participate or to excel; I did so because I enjoyed it. And I'm now a grown, well-adjusted woman and a successful professional with multiple degrees. I credit my success in part to many of the interpersonal and communications skills I learned in those cheesy pageants. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    Kaila Hale-Stern approved this comment SouthernGal98 was starred SouthernGal98 was unstarred
    Image of RollsRoyceRevenge RollsRoyceRevenge
    11/12/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    #1. If she didn't look like her top was going to fall off, I might accept this as a "Victorian" look for some young miss living in Murray Hill.

    #2. This is what Carrie Prejean still sees when she closes her eyes and repeats "no sex tape...no sex tape...no sex tape...no gays married...no sex tape..." PS. The dog hates America.

    #3 just killed Blofield. AND SHE WILL KILL AGAIN.

    #4 is actually Strawberry Shortcake's fucked-up cousin Cherry Tart.

    #5 is the missing Huckabee.

    #6 is hoping that her exposed navel will distract us from the fact that she just chewed a hole in her hat. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    RollsRoyceRevenge was starred RollsRoyceRevenge was unstarred
    Image of NewsBunny NewsBunny
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    Girl number three is horrifically over-sexualized. That is a very disturbing photograph. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    NewsBunny was starred NewsBunny was unstarred
    Image of thehighshelf thehighshelf
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    But there isn't any frivolity! There is no goofiness, luxury, or play in this mess. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    jenrobe promoted this comment thehighshelf was starred thehighshelf was unstarred
    Image of jenrobe jenrobe
    11/12/09

    @thehighshelf: Yeah, it's not quite the same as getting into your mum's lipstick and high heels, is it? #highglitzbook
     Reply
    jenrobe was starred jenrobe was unstarred
    Image of amazoncowgirl amazoncowgirl
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    The argument that by criticizing and moralizing about Pagaents is somehow denying a little girl or trans child the right to live out their fantasy of girliness just doesn't hold up. Being anti-pagaent is not about being against little girls dressing up or putting on make-up if they so desire. Or little boys either, for that matter (I have five nephews and they all loved to wear my high heels and experiment with lipstick at a certain age).

    Being anti-pagaent is about being horrified that small children are being sexualised.

    Are being forced into competition with other little children to look the cutest, sexiest, whatever.

    Are being told at such a young age that if they do not win, they are somehow less worthy, less cute.

    Are being forced to wear frigging fake nails at the age of 2, for fucks sake.

    A little girl putting on a pretty dress up frock and playing with mum's make-up is one thing. A nine year old girl who is made up to look like a provocative grown-up woman is in a totally new ballpark altogether.

    And Doonan arguing that parents are somehow cheating their children by denying them the right to compete in these pagaents is ridiculous. Parents are given these decision making responsibilities for a reason. Because they are supposed to know better than a small child what is good for them. By Doonans argument I should have been allowed to drink the entire bottle of Vallergan when I was four because I really liked the taste of it.

    I used to love being in the spotlight, wearing a pretty dress as well, Mr Doonan. Happily for me my parents sat through many an impromptu backyard play. There are other, less damaging outlets. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    boxspelunker promoted this comment amazoncowgirl was starred amazoncowgirl was unstarred
    Image of neuronerd neuronerd
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    Hmph. Simon Doonan, I'll have knee-jerk antipathy towards beauty pageants if I very well please, even you do think I'm "overeducated"... wait, what? Do you expect me to take that as an insult? No, better question: do you really expect me to accept the existence of such a concept as too much education?

    Also, even if you do think I'm dreary (debatable), overeducated (whatever the hell that is), and middle-class (which, okay, I am, but I'm confused as to whether raising or lowering my class would supposedly increase my appreciation of beauty pageants), lacking in spotlight intoxication I am not. I had nine perfectly enjoyable years on the competitive Irish dance circuit. And yet, I can still muster up a hefty heap of criticism for the increasing makeup-and-wig-laden glamorization trend in said competition circuit. See how that works, Mr. Doonan? I enjoyed the spotlight for the sake of athletic and artistic performance and managed to not pick up an appearance complex while doing so. I cared more about the attention I received from what I did than from how I looked. *Gasp.* #highglitzbook
     Reply
    boxspelunker promoted this comment neuronerd was starred neuronerd was unstarred
    Image of SharonTaint SharonTaint
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    Number 4 could be a Zoloft ad, I'm sorry to report. But these are the facts.

    That little girl is sad beyond her years.
     Reply
    Edited by SharonTaint at 11/11/09 5:55 PM SharonTaint was starred SharonTaint was unstarred
    Image of limber limber
    11/12/09

    @SharonTaint: I feel like I can not only see what Number 5 will look like at 40, but also her nascent urge to kill. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    limber was starred limber was unstarred
    Image of Misiula Misiula
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    Sorry, but I can't put my ideas in a more developed and refined form. I look at these pictures and can't help thinking that it's all wrong. I liked make up and dressing up as a kid. But for fun: sloppily, like a character in a play. Not like a bikini model straight from a pedophile fantasy. Dyed hair? Fake tan? Acrylic nails? Exotic dancer underwear? WTF???? #highglitzbook
     Reply
    yvanehtnioj promoted this comment Misiula was starred Misiula was unstarred
    Image of MilointheMeadow MilointheMeadow
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    Ugh, I hate it when people invoke the name of Lewis Carroll when the subject of young girls comes up. In my brain, he is a sensitive genius and not a child molester! Sticking my fingers in my ears now - LA LA LA can't hear you!! #highglitzbook
     Reply
    MilointheMeadow was starred MilointheMeadow was unstarred
    Image of lurkerbynature lurkerbynature
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    If you want your kid to play dress-up in a structured environment, there's always Children's Theatre. They can play with makeup and costumes to their hearts' content, and it's clearly in the realm of putting on a play not how they're supposed to grow up to be. If they get judged, it's on their performances not their looks. That's something you don't need plastic surgery to improve.

    And, they might learn some appreciation for the arts while they're at it. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    formergr promoted this comment lurkerbynature was starred lurkerbynature was unstarred
    Image of SonicNapoleonic SonicNapoleonic
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    Can we just stop sexing up little kids please? It's NOT RIGHT. Kids don't need make up and sexy outfits. They need to have dirt/grass stains on them and scrapes from PLAYING like LITTLE KIDS. These pictures make me sick. It's okay to like "girly" stuff, but when it comes down to it, there is a line that should not be crossed. These girls don't fully understand the implications of their dressing up this way. It's absolutely horrifying to me that parents allow this to happen to their kids.
     Reply
    toastandlove promoted this comment Edited by SonicNapoleonic at 11/11/09 4:35 PM SonicNapoleonic was starred SonicNapoleonic was unstarred
    Image of toastandlove toastandlove
    11/11/09

    @SonicNapoleonic: I dunno, when I was 4, 5, and 6, I did need sexy outfits. (This was after my dinosaur phase, but before my reading and science phase). I wore bikini tops with cutoff shorts, short skirts, and my personal favorite, a black and pink ice skating outfit with pink sequins. I loved them. They were integral to my play.

    You take an awfully narrow view of what it means to be a kid. If I got dirt and grass stains on my dresses, I cried. I wouldn't have any of it.

    And as for my parents? They were mortified. My mother tried endlessly to push "boys" and non-gendered toys on me. I just didn't want anything to do with it. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    toastandlove was starred toastandlove was unstarred
    Image of SonicNapoleonic SonicNapoleonic
    11/11/09

    @toastandlove:
    You misunderstood me. That was only an example of the kind of play kids should be doing. I know getting dirty isn't all that kids do. Adults have a responsibility to teach their kids that sexy clothes are for adults who understand what that means (arousing sexual thought in yourself and someone else). Kids are not supposed to look sexy. Sure I played dress up but never thought about looking "sexy". I had no idea what that meant. Kids need to have that bit of nativity and innocence about them, that's what makes childhood great. No kids "needs" to play with sexy outfits to have fun, btw. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    SonicNapoleonic was starred SonicNapoleonic was unstarred
    Image of judgingamy judgingamy
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    Lewis Carroll was also arrested for sleeping in the bushes next to the real Alice's house, and her parents put a restraining order against him, so like, maybe he's not the greatest example of an adult who understands little girls or not being a giant creep and exploiting children. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    judgingamy was starred judgingamy was unstarred
    Image of thewitchandthemoll thewitchandthemoll
    11/11/09

    @judgingamy: He also reportedly asked her parents for permission to marry her. Awwwwwk-ward. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    formergr promoted this comment thewitchandthemoll was starred thewitchandthemoll was unstarred
    Image of muddgirl muddgirl
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    But then how does that explain say, transgender children, or little boys who—at ages as young as 18 months—have those same interests, despite the fact that they've been taught not to?

    This argument never made sense to me, especially when it comes to transgender children. If gender is both brain-based and a social construct, it makes perfect sense that transgender girls will "like" the same things as cisgender girls. Both of them are internalizing the fact that (a) they are girls (biological), and (b) girls like X (learned).
     Reply
    toastandlove promoted this comment Edited by muddgirl at 11/11/09 3:52 PM muddgirl was starred muddgirl was unstarred
    Image of History Major History Major
    11/11/09

    @muddgirl: Right obviously transgender girls who self identify as GIRLS from the time they are born would like the things that every other girl likes and is conditioned to like.

    But there goes the fact that MANY OF US still do not consider transgender as well whatever gender they self identify.

    "Why do those little boys who say they are little girls like what other little girls like" #highglitzbook
     Reply
    boxspelunker promoted this comment History Major was starred History Major was unstarred
    Image of boxspelunker boxspelunker
    11/11/09

    @History Major: AGH this makes so much sense!

    I am trans myself, and do not consider it transphobic to ask why so many trans people have such strong stereotypical ways of performing their gender. They are the most visible, so people associate that with trans people. And to ask why little kids are so gender-performatory... well, this is a great answer and helps me avoid that awkward "girls play with dolls, boys play with trucks" dichotomy that I absolutely do not believe is inborn based on sex. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    boxspelunker was starred boxspelunker was unstarred
    Image of LutherNipperkin LutherNipperkin
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    "Girls are empty vessels, screens of projection; they are not the agents or producers of their world, or so we think. We do not recognize that they could produce something strong, strange, and even freakish all on their own."

    It's true. When I liked girly things everyone got all excited that I was learning to like pretty sparkly things (this was rare), and wasn't that cute. When I liked Matchboxes and boot knives, it was just because I wanted to be like my older brother. The only thing they gave me genuine credit for liking on my own was my collection of stuffed animals, which was gender-neutral.
     Reply
    denna promoted this comment LutherNipperkin was starred LutherNipperkin was unstarred
    Image of boxspelunker boxspelunker
    11/11/09

    @LutherNipperkin: Oh, yeah, I see that in my... cousin's daughter = first cousin once-removed? I don't know what the term is. My cousin's daughter. Her grandmother likes to take her shopping (her grandma is only like, 45), and is like "Oh, Baby just loves necklaces and pretty jewelry! She's going to grow up to be such a heart-stopper!". Except she calls the girl by her name.

    Baby is like, 6 months old. You're dangling a sparkly object in front of her face. Of course she likes it. TO EAT IT. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    boxspelunker was starred boxspelunker was unstarred
    Image of mcpm mcpm
    11/12/09

    @boxspelunker: And I know people who do this, but in an even subtler way. Like saying, oh, you look so pretty, when the girl puts on the fairy dress up. Even said casually, this makes an impact. And it doesn't get said when the girl is playing with cars.
    We all live in a gendered world, of course, and I'm not coming down on mothers, say, for liking their own dresses and jewelry and passing that on. But it has an effect. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    boxspelunker promoted this comment mcpm was starred mcpm was unstarred
    Image of boxspelunker boxspelunker
    11/12/09

    @mcpm: Oh, that is most parents I know, to be honest. My stepsister recently had a baby, and informed everyone how he was going to play baseball and like this sports team or that sports team. Did you know that at 6 months, you can actually have a girlfriend? I did not know that. But this kid apparently does! Not a female friend, but they are "dating". I dunno, I find it so creepy.

    I would never hold it against a parent for wanting to share something they enjoy with a child, but I wish they weren't so insistent on these gender roles before the kid is even born. I mean, it's not that a parent totally shapes a kid's personality, but it does have an effect. And I wish the kid had a little more freedom in his or her choices, especially as they're learning to walk and talk. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    boxspelunker was starred boxspelunker was unstarred
    Image of leslieannelevine leslieannelevine
    11/12/09

    @mcpm: That's actually fascinating--I never really think of comments this subtle having an impact. I do remember, though, how unusually gratified I felt when my ex said "oh, you're so cute" because I was explaining a feminist argument or reading a book. We don't expect to get that kind of feedback for anything except getting dolled up, but makeup and clothing aren't the only things about us that can be attractive. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    boxspelunker promoted this comment leslieannelevine was starred leslieannelevine was unstarred
    Image of History Major History Major
    11/11/09

    In reply to High Glitz: Exploring Child Pageants Through A Feminist Lens
    One of my philosophies in life is to try and keep an open mind as often as possible. And despite what many people think I have to maintain this sentiment when dealing with child beauty pageants. Yes we get to see them on shows like Tots & Tiaras, and other such shows but does this represent ALL cases and all families and all little girls? I highly doubt it. There's this notion that little girls cannot have any agency in the decisions that they make, and I agree with the author THEY CAN. My niece loves wearing makeup, she loves dressing up, she loves all the things these girls do but she also loves reading, writing, playing with insects, and dreams of being a dentist.

    It's easy to look at something and say NOPE ITS BAD without even having an open mind or considering alternate views.

    And even if the mothers make the girls do it, parents make kids do things ALL THE TIME. For me it was being forced to play football when all i really wanted to do was take dance lessons. As many negatives in child pageants I found in football. The adoring audiences, the control, the parent-guided competition, families going into debt, becoming a career rather than a game, and the adornment of things a kid doesn't naturally need. It wasn't nails for me it was cleats, shoulder pads, black makeup under my eye, jock straps, and even the suggestion that I gain MORE weight by eating peanut butter.

    If we are going to critique one child activity we don't agree with why not stop there and critique all activities children are apart of? #highglitzbook
     Reply
    formergr promoted this comment History Major was starred History Major was unstarred
    Image of formergr formergr
    11/11/09

    @History Major: Oh yeah, I've seen some sports parents that will rival the worst pageant mom any day in terms of damage to their children and over-involvedness.... #highglitzbook
     Reply
    formergr was starred formergr was unstarred
    Image of Misiula Misiula
    11/11/09

    @History Major: You propose a very strange logic: "people make children do things all the time, so let's keep an open mind about all those things."

    Possible things people make their children do: brush their teeth, learn to tie their shoelaces, learn to read... diet, completely alter their appearance (fake tans, fake nails, etc.), practice sexy smiles, walks, dancing for a beauty pageant.

    You know, I don't think all these things are exactly comparable. What is more, I think there are astoundingly different motivations behind them. Not everything you "make" your child do has the same consequences for their wellbeing and I don't think that the consequences are absolutely arbitrary and random. Not everything goes, not everything is like anything else.
     Reply
    yvanehtnioj promoted this comment Edited by Misiula at 11/11/09 5:32 PM Misiula was starred Misiula was unstarred
    Image of History Major History Major
    11/11/09

    @Misiula: That's kind of my point though? #highglitzbook
     Reply
    History Major was starred History Major was unstarred
    Image of History Major History Major
    11/11/09

    @Misiula: Say for instance my parents entered me into football to build my people skills, and team work,and hard work and stuff.

    Say a mom enters her daughter into a pageant so she can work on her public speaking skills, dancing, poise, etc.

    Now I don't think that's what happened to me. I was taught rigidity. Narrow definitions of masculinity. Aggression is good and necessary. Misogynistic language as I regularly heard "Dont be a girl, toughen up you sissy, what do you have a vagina down there" etc.

    And yet I don't see anyone critiquing little league football and all the crap that goes on there. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    History Major was starred History Major was unstarred
    Image of Misiula Misiula
    11/11/09

    @History Major: Actually, there's an increasing amount of critique of the demand that your kid should be an overachiever -- but people do need to be vocal about it. If you speak about your experiences and if more people join, who knows, maybe we can get to a significant change. #highglitzbook
     Reply
    Misiula was starred Misiula was unstarred
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