I have a more lax view on this debate than most, but this is one shot that I can say with authority would have been much cooler with an actual black model. Unless it's the SAME model. In that case, it changes the discussion entirely. #blackface
Well they might try to call it art, but I don't see how they'd get away with calling it fashion. These women are naked. They're not even wearing accessories. Where's the fashion, again?
Whatever. Fuck you, thoughtless, lazy, played-out, uncreative photographers and whatever other "artistic geniuses" insist on keeping this trend going. Just because you pissed people off doesn't mean you're a Misunderstood Artiste. #enoughalready
I'm not going to give my two cents on the blackface debate because I don't feel like getting slammed per usual.
I have one question though: are the two women in the picture the same model? It looks like it to me. If so, I take this photoshoot as a commentary on the light/dark inside of every woman. Sort of like a yin and yang type of shoot. Can someone find out if this is the same model because that is how I interpret this photo. I'm open to being proven wrong, however. #blackface
@Armed with Vitriol: It's an honest mistake, considering how many of the models seem to come from the same (uninspiring, to me) mold these days. #blackface
Perhaps I am clueless but this whole black face trend that has come up in the media recently really doesn't bother me. I think it is a beautiful photo. #blackface
@muddgirl: Why would they want to be hired by a photoographer/magazine/company who doesn't want them? And what about us short mexicans? There isn't a screaming market for us either. #blackface
@FaceMonkey: Why would they want to be hired by a photoographer/magazine/company who doesn't want them?
Is that supposed to be a joke? Instead of taking the powerbrokers to task for racism, you think that the answer to widespread discrimination in an industry is to tell the people being discriminated against, "oh well, all the people handing out jobs are jerks, so you're probably better off"? This is ridiculous. #blackface
@yvanehtnioj: That is not what I am saying at all. I was just trying to point out that not everything is racist or discriminating. I am trying to understand how painting a model (black, brown, blue or whatever) points directly to racism. The choice to hire someone doesn't always depend on the color of their skin just like not hiring someone isn't always because the color of their skin either. If a company doesn't want to hire me (for whatever reason, and most often we never find out the real reason) then I just figure I can find more happiness somewhere else. I would NEVER dismiss OBVIOUS racism but I just don't think there is obvious racism here. Just a lot of speculation. #blackface
@FaceMonkey: Well an important distinction here is that no one is being painted blue. Whenever someone brings up nonsense like this ("I don't care if you're purple!") it's sidestepping the actual issue. There are actual models of color, so painting a white model to look like one instead of hiring one is very clearly different from painting someone blue.
Of course The choice to hire someone doesn't always depend on the color of their skin just like not hiring someone isn't always because the color of their skin either. But models are paid to look a certain way, so passing over a black model for a white one that you then paint black isn't exactly the same as the time that I wasn't sure if my lack of experience or my lackluster interview did me in. There is an obvious problem here, and that's independent of the fact that blackface should never be viewed as an artistic option (without some kind of important subtext or actual thought behind the photograph). The fact that you don't see it doesn't make it speculation. #blackface
@yvanehtnioj: You are absolutely right to say models are paid to look a certain way. That being said, I wonder if the photographer liked the bone structure/features of the white model but wished she had darker skin. Is that still considered racist? I am just trying to understand the point of view of everyone here. Is it the same as asking a white model to tan before a shoot? Would it be the same outrage if a black model were painted to look white?
I seriously am not trying to be a horse's ass but I just can't seem to grasp what exactly is so upsetting.
PS...perhaps the use of blue skin was silly, my apologies for such a child-like example. #blackface
@FaceMonkey: For me there are basically 3 separate issues:
1. Blackface. This has a very long, very ugly history. Dressing white people up as black people for entertainment purposes "others" black people, is grossly offensive, and taps into the worst part of our history and culture. (This is why it would not be the same if a black model was painted white, the context is different.)
2a. Lack of representation of black models in mainstream media (Consumer perspective). Very few black women are represented in the media, so if one of the few occasions is actually a white woman painted black (perhaps because the painter was enamored of her European features), it skews the already small sample from which other black women (and especially girls) draw role models, aspirational ideals, and positive reinforcement. (The famous doll experiment deals with some of the fallout from this white=pretty message that gets reinforced every day in a billion ways.)
2b. Lack of representation of black models in mainstream media (Model perspective). Models of color are routinely excluded from photo shoots (sometimes specifically, with notes like "No ethnic models" at casting, and more often de facto). When a photographer is looking for contrasting skin tones for artistic purposes (and it almost hurts to give that much benefit of the doubt to this twit) and chooses to go to the trouble to paint a white woman's entire body rather than hire a model who comes ready-made with that skin tone, it not only takes away an opportunity for that model (in an already hypercompetitve world where her opportunities are artificially restricted because of her race), but it also feeds the problems mentioned above. And if his reason actually is "I want black skin but white features", that is an excellent example of furthering the idea that white=pretty. Which is a destructive problem in the first place, but potentially even moreso for women whose jobs center around their looks. If regular women are getting boob jobs by the score because the media tells us it's hawt, how much worse must be the pressure for black models to get nose jobs or Asian models to get that horrifying eyelid surgery or what-have-you when their entire job is reliant on photographers finding their faces worth filming? (Also this is not the same as asking a white model to tan, for the simple reason that a white model can tan. A black model cannot show up white one day.)
I am getting tired of people saying that this isn't blackface.
Not all instances of blackface require the performer to look like a golliwog. Blackface is essentially a White person made up to appear as a Black person for entertainment purposes. This fits the bill. The bottom line is that a White model is getting paid to look like a Black model. In the ANTM shoot they actually wanted them to embody the spirit of a biracial person, as though that is something that one can just take on and off like a costume. Arguing over whether it can officially be defined as Blackface only serves to derail an important conversation. #blackface
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Thank you, thank you, thank you. We need to talk about this and I'm really frustrated with people who just want to derail the discussion by saying they don't care and don't see why anyone else does (if you don't care, don't comment!) or seem to think that something has to be like Roger on Mad Men to be a problem.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I don't think that every person who disagrees with calling this blackface is trying to derail any conversation. I think it may have to do with differences in how we define blackface. You say it's all about the make-up. But, for me, the defining characteristic of blackface performances was the intent to belittle the people that performers were imitating. If people simply painted themselves and did nothing, I don't think blackface performances would be remembered the way they are today.
When I look at this image, I don't see the malicious intent that made blackface performances so disgusting. I just see a painted person. #blackface
@Primrose: 1. the dictionary definition of blackface is "a performer made up to imitate a Black person" so technically, regardless of what you or I may think, the above photo is indeed blackface. 2. Blackface would be remembered poorly even if people "simply painted themselves and did nothing". Black face is not just offensive because it showcases a caricature of Black people, it is offensive because it displays a lack of understanding about the innate privilege involved in being white. It downplays the Black experience by allowing White people to "play Black for a day" 3. Regardless of whether or not you find the image above offensive or malicious, there are many POC that do. We need to take their word for it, and not tell them that they shouldn't be offended because the image "isn't really blackface." #blackface
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I guess that it all comes down to opinion then. I'm a woman of color myself, and I don't find this offensive. As for other POC? Well, I'm wouldn't change my opinion just because one of my siblings/parents/cousins thought otherwise. #blackface
@Primrose: Right, again, whether or not you think it is offensive, other people think it is. You can say that you don't find it offensive, but you can't say the the image is not offensive because some people think it is. You can say that you don't think the image is blackface but you can't say the image isn't blackface because if you go by the dictionary definition, it is.
Edited by Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. at 10/30/09 8:28 PM
Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. was starred
Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. was unstarred
When I was in high school (less than 10 years ago), a girl in my history class did an oral presentation that involved a)dressing up in blackface and talking like a "slave" and b)putting on a KKK hood. It was the worst trainwreck I've ever seen. She went to Yale. #blackface
@NellMood: It was just a "final project". We could pretty much do whatever we wanted to as long as it worked with the curriculum. She didn't stop it at the time (which kind of shocked me) and I have no idea if she said anything later. I'd like to think so, but who knows? Either way I hope she, an adult, at least felt as awkward as I did! #blackface
@BuffySummers: thats so weird. i wonder if the teacher was too embarrassed and unsure of how to approach such an obvious breach of civility or if he/she was just as oblivious as your classmate. #blackface
The V clearly doesn't stand for vox populi, her visage violates taboos in a very volatile way, and the magazine comes off as virulent vermin. #blackface
This picture would be interesting if the other model was a poc in white face (?). I could see something in that maybe. Or if you had the painted model next to a model of the poc she is trying to be and in that kind of psuedo aggressive embrace. I could get into that. Anyone else think of way to improve this pic? #blackface
@ZemarSea Urchin: I was thinking the same thing. If you're going to try to call blackface "edgey" and "fashion" then you really need to have a black person INVOLVED IN THE PICTURE AS WELL. Otherwise you're a moron. #blackface
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: Adding the poc in that embrace could highlight the negativity of colouring someone darker than they are. I'd like that, sorta show tension. #blackface
OK: (potentially dumb) question: should it still be called blackface when a model's whole body is painted? I think we need a new word; something that more adequately portrays how deeply offensive this is. #blackface
blackface [ˈblækˌfeɪs]
n
1. (Performing Arts / Theatre)
a. a performer made up to imitate a Black person
b. the make-up used by such a performer, usually consisting of burnt cork #blackface
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10/30/09
Well they might try to call it art, but I don't see how they'd get away with calling it fashion. These women are naked. They're not even wearing accessories. Where's the fashion, again?
Whatever. Fuck you, thoughtless, lazy, played-out, uncreative photographers and whatever other "artistic geniuses" insist on keeping this trend going. Just because you pissed people off doesn't mean you're a Misunderstood Artiste.
#enoughalready
10/30/09
I have one question though: are the two women in the picture the same model? It looks like it to me. If so, I take this photoshoot as a commentary on the light/dark inside of every woman. Sort of like a yin and yang type of shoot. Can someone find out if this is the same model because that is how I interpret this photo. I'm open to being proven wrong, however. #blackface
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10/30/09
I'm over this "trend". #blackface
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So yeah, it absolutely bothers me. #blackface
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Is that supposed to be a joke? Instead of taking the powerbrokers to task for racism, you think that the answer to widespread discrimination in an industry is to tell the people being discriminated against, "oh well, all the people handing out jobs are jerks, so you're probably better off"? This is ridiculous. #blackface
11/02/09
11/02/09
Of course The choice to hire someone doesn't always depend on the color of their skin just like not hiring someone isn't always because the color of their skin either. But models are paid to look a certain way, so passing over a black model for a white one that you then paint black isn't exactly the same as the time that I wasn't sure if my lack of experience or my lackluster interview did me in. There is an obvious problem here, and that's independent of the fact that blackface should never be viewed as an artistic option (without some kind of important subtext or actual thought behind the photograph). The fact that you don't see it doesn't make it speculation. #blackface
11/02/09
I seriously am not trying to be a horse's ass but I just can't seem to grasp what exactly is so upsetting.
PS...perhaps the use of blue skin was silly, my apologies for such a child-like example. #blackface
11/02/09
1. Blackface. This has a very long, very ugly history. Dressing white people up as black people for entertainment purposes "others" black people, is grossly offensive, and taps into the worst part of our history and culture. (This is why it would not be the same if a black model was painted white, the context is different.)
2a. Lack of representation of black models in mainstream media (Consumer perspective). Very few black women are represented in the media, so if one of the few occasions is actually a white woman painted black (perhaps because the painter was enamored of her European features), it skews the already small sample from which other black women (and especially girls) draw role models, aspirational ideals, and positive reinforcement. (The famous doll experiment deals with some of the fallout from this white=pretty message that gets reinforced every day in a billion ways.)
2b. Lack of representation of black models in mainstream media (Model perspective). Models of color are routinely excluded from photo shoots (sometimes specifically, with notes like "No ethnic models" at casting, and more often de facto). When a photographer is looking for contrasting skin tones for artistic purposes (and it almost hurts to give that much benefit of the doubt to this twit) and chooses to go to the trouble to paint a white woman's entire body rather than hire a model who comes ready-made with that skin tone, it not only takes away an opportunity for that model (in an already hypercompetitve world where her opportunities are artificially restricted because of her race), but it also feeds the problems mentioned above. And if his reason actually is "I want black skin but white features", that is an excellent example of furthering the idea that white=pretty. Which is a destructive problem in the first place, but potentially even moreso for women whose jobs center around their looks. If regular women are getting boob jobs by the score because the media tells us it's hawt, how much worse must be the pressure for black models to get nose jobs or Asian models to get that horrifying eyelid surgery or what-have-you when their entire job is reliant on photographers finding their faces worth filming? (Also this is not the same as asking a white model to tan, for the simple reason that a white model can tan. A black model cannot show up white one day.)
These are my top 3, at least.
10/30/09
Not all instances of blackface require the performer to look like a golliwog. Blackface is essentially a White person made up to appear as a Black person for entertainment purposes. This fits the bill. The bottom line is that a White model is getting paid to look like a Black model. In the ANTM shoot they actually wanted them to embody the spirit of a biracial person, as though that is something that one can just take on and off like a costume. Arguing over whether it can officially be defined as Blackface only serves to derail an important conversation. #blackface
10/30/09
10/30/09
When I look at this image, I don't see the malicious intent that made blackface performances so disgusting. I just see a painted person. #blackface
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We get it. You don't mind offending large groups of people.
Love/hate,
World. #blackface
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Maybe V magazine is the in flight magazine for the visitors.
That's the only way to explain this. #blackface
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@Mary McCarthyite: #blackface
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blackface [ˈblækˌfeɪs]
n
1. (Performing Arts / Theatre)
a. a performer made up to imitate a Black person
b. the make-up used by such a performer, usually consisting of burnt cork #blackface