During the scene where the two girls kiss, a middle-aged man sitting behind me and my girlfriend yelled out "That's disgusting!". All the gross-out gore, and the kissing was disgusting. I don't understand people.
Loved, loved, loved this movie. Yes, it was not perfect and had many flaws, but it felt like I was inside the world of young girls for a change. There were moments that I thought were terribly authentic and not explored in most movies about young girls. I think it's important to support female filmmakers.
I fucking adore this movie. Say what you will of Codyisms, they're fun and fresh and not like the boring dialogue most teen-oriented movies are churning out these days. And I will watch Amanda Seyfried in anything. Hell, I sat through Mamma Mia for her.
Pleasantly surprised by MFox. She really seems to have a feel for Cody's very distinctive speech patterns, and some of her lines I literally LOLed at.
Extra points for a normal portrayal of teen sexuality without the idea that it makes you slutty or bad or impure. (The Chip/Needy sex scene is win--very real and sweet and accurate. I think I even had the exact same bra as Needy. Now that's detail-oriented for you.)
Extra extra points for Beaver Casablancas in eyeliner.
]It sucks that, instead of being recognized for making the screenplay sparkle with fun language, Diablo Cody gets flogged for "Codyisms."]
She gets flogged because her Cody-isms are so far out there that the average person CAN'T figure them out.
"He's so salty. . . " And Amanda Seyfried's character had to explain that to her boyfriend and the audience.
When you have to explain your lingo in the screenplay, you're trying too hard. And it's the trying too hard that's irritating.
With that said, I LOVED the movie. I thought it was a smart/different kind of horror flick. And as much as I love horror films, I didn't see the explanation for why/what Jennifer killed, is and that rates high on my list of horror films.
@dangerslut: I'm an average person and I can figure them out. And if people can decipher the lingo in Heathers, any John Hughes film, Kevin Smith, or Tarantino, this isn't really any different.
The "He's so salty..." comment was meant to indicate to the audience that Needy "gets" Jennifer when no one else does, complete with understanding her Jenniferisms. It's a character moment, not a trying too hard moment.
@dangerslut: I do think part of the reason people react to the "Codyisms" differently is they lack cadence. Whedon and Tarantino(who is all about rhythm) don't just have unique phrases the character speak to each other in.
@J.D.Regent: Actually, yeah, that's a good comparison in terms of tone. It -is- funny, but it's also horror. I think mixed genre tends to confuse folks.
@tiredfairy: I don't know. I would disagree, but I think only b/c I can't compare Lost Boys to this movie--or any other horror film. It's in a class of its own, like Heathers as a black comedy is in a class of its own. I think this move is in a class of its own too. Just my .02.
@dangerslut: I mean tone-wise, ie. horror/comedy. Which Lost Boys definitely is. It's not the same movie/story, clearly, but it's in the same genre. The characters play most of the moments, even the "funny" ones seriously, and most of the comedy comes out of the horror of the situation.
Lost Boys is a great film, one of the best vampire movies, still.
So, I'm not so much comparing them like they're the exact movie. Just suggesting that, yes, in terms of tone, they are similar. I'd say that's also true of Slither and a bunch of other movies, like Ginger Snaps.
I saw this on Friday night. Lemme put the movie itself aside to tell you about my experience.
My boyfriend and I were enjoying the movie when, ten minutes into it, a woman (who appeared to be about 60) walked in with her cane and a little girl who could not have been more than 6 years old. I guess it was her grandchild. They sat down in the same row as us, 3 or 4 seats away.
About 45 minutes into the movie, the woman fell asleep and half of the fucking theater could hear her snoring. Beyond that, the little girl (whose feet did not touch the ground) alternated between staring at the scary stuff happening on screen with her mouth hanging open and poking her (presumed) grandma saying things like "I'm scared" and "I wanna leave." These proclamations did not wake up her caretaker except for once, when the girl said "I don't wanna watch this movie" and the woman responded "It's the movie I wanna watch."
Finally, after she snored through the sexytime kissing scene (which was the quietest part of the movie, so everyone heard and was turning to see where the sound came from), my boyfriend got up and told an usher. The usher came in and woke the woman up. Rather than leaving, the woman got up (leaving the small child there) and came back with a soda. They stayed until the end.
I was fucking incensed. It was the single worst display of parenting I have ever seen first hand, I think.
@MsKatherineSpeaks: Yeah, in my theatre a man brought his two sons who were 6 and younger. I was surprised. But they stayed very well-behaved and didn't seemed disturbed at all. And the Dad was one of the few people actually laughing at the funny stuff. So I don't know how I feel! Ha.
@MsKatherineSpeaks: i really hate when people bring little kids to movies. this reminds me of when i went to see watchmen and the theater was like filled with kids.
i know it's not fair, but part of having kids is not always getting to see the movie you want to see when you want to see it. and maybe i feel this way because my mom was very strict about what i was and was not allowed to watch until i was in high school pretty much. ugh.
@elliotellsworth: People need to grow up and put their kids first. You want to see a movie that's not appropriate for your kid? Wait for the DVD or hire a damn babysitter.
One, it's just inappropriate to bring a small child to movies like this. Two, it's rude to bring a child to a movie when that child will disrupt it for everyone else. I don't bring my baby to movies because that would be idiotic.
@MsKatherineSpeaks: I absolutely hate shit like that. I went to see Transformers 2 on the night it came out (admittedly a really bad decision on my part) with a group of friends. There was a couple in the same row as us with two small boys, probably 6 or 7 and around 4. Keep in mind that this movie was three hours long and rated PG-13. It was pretty violent, but it was also BORING, and no kid is going to sit still for three hours, no matter how cool the giant robots. When those kids weren't screaming or talking loudly, they were getting up and pointing at the screen and literally shaking the seats in front of them, where people were sitting. They got up to get candy TWICE.
@MsKatherineSpeaks: Ugh, I hear you on this. I went to see Let the Right One In and there was a toddler there (I didn't see him but I could hear that cough that only children under 5 get). Um, not only was that movie totally inappropriate for a child -- it was SUBTITLED. wtf?
@Maritsa: Assuming the child will disrupt the movie, though. The theater people didn't want to let my mom take me to see "Amadeus" when I was 6, in spite of her assurance I'd remain quiet for the entire 3h. And I did remain quiet for the whole 3h.
But yeah, kids and horror = not a good idea.
I was just over on Io9, which is my second favorite Gawker site. In the "It's a Disaster!" post, they had some little jab in there about this movie and (as one commenter later chose to describe it) fem-me-nizm. I made one comment and then had to get out, because the comments were turning too gross.
I wasn't super interested in this movie, but I HATE the kind of dismissal it's getting, and hate even more the armchair feminism critiques taking place surrounding it. I'll go see it (and maybe hate it) just to show my support, though.
@Where The Mild Things Are: I haven't seen the movie, but I will tell you one of the things that has been driving me nuts ever since I noticed it is the way people dismiss ANYTHING having to do with young or teenage girls right out of hand, as if it can't possibly be worth their time as entertainment. It makes me MENTAL.
i still have mixed feelings about it. i liked it as much as i thought i would, i thought needy and chip where far more charming than juno and paulie, and i thought adam brody was a scene stealer every time he popped up.
although, what bothered me about my movie watching experience was that my brother and i were the only ones laughing. say what you want, but that movie was legit funny and kind of silly and i think people were taking it way too seriously. because come on, jk simmons with a hook for a hand, how can you not laugh at that.
also! and this bothered me the most. some people in the theater actually said "ew" when needy and jennifer kissed. i don't know if it's because i live in the conservative wasteland of central california or if people hate megan fox that much. mostly i just thought it was inappropriate and actually kind of hateful.
@elliotellsworth: I feel you. My friend and I weren't the ONLY people laughing, but the ratio of silence to laughing was pretty vast. This movie was hilarious. Megan Fox and Adam Brody delivered those lines to perfection, seriously. It was a fucking treat to watch. Thankfully no one "ew'd" the kiss in my theatre or I would have for real thrown a half-chewed Starburst at them.
And just to be more relevant, yeah, I heard something similar from a few guys in the audience. I think they felt left out. Something similar happened when I saw Superbad, two girls had a FIT about the scene towards the end where they hugged. And that was in NYC.
You are spot-on, Dodai! I am so glad this movie is being written about so thoughtfully on Jez. SO MANY of my friends were surprised I even saw it, let alone liked it, because it's being marketed as some vapid MTV horror movie ala Sorority Row, when in fact it is a hilarious and well-made satire. It reminded me so much of Heathers, but not in a copycat way, only in the best possible ways. I really implore everyone to see this if they liked movies like Heathers, Jawbreaker and The Craft. It's such a delight. And supporting it will only open the door for more female-made and female-starring movies to be made.
@The Queen of No: i totally agree. while i thought those movies you listed were better [and i might feel that way because those are the movies of my youth and nothing will replace them], i saw jennifer's body because i needed to get my slasher movie fix. i was really excited when i first heard about sorority row and then was so disappointed when i heard about how bad it was. so i thought this was actually a happy medium. and funny to boot. way better than a generic chick flick in my mind.
@elliotellsworth: Nostalgia is a powerful thing! I love those movies.. a lot, but with Jennifer's Body I am able to at first watch fully grasp the underlying themes and that's pretty powerful in and of itself.
@The Queen of No: *snaps fingers* Gosh darn it, now I may have to go see it. I hate slashers with the proverbial white-hot fire of a thousand suns -- I think they're generally anti-feminist on principle -- but I did want to support Cody, and then you had to go and push not one, not two, but three of my fave movie buttons, and now I have to motor.
@LeRollingStoner: I thought it was pretty amazing. Adam Brody did an amazing job, and there were even a few times when I thought, "Wow, Megan Fox can act." I went into knowing it was a horror/comedy, and not to take it seriously. I mean, if someone is looking for a super feminist message from a movie where a rock band accidentally turns a cheerleader into a succubus, they're fishing in the wrong pond, IMO.
@dj_chick: Well, you could read that as very feminist, though. In the sense that the bands casual misogyny and objectification of Jennifer is what causes the entire horror show. That and the not very subtle stab at how we covet virginity.
Personally, I though there were some really interesting feminist takes on the genre/tropes.
I totally agree about your assesment of the "Codyisms." I actually kinda like them, the same way that I liked it in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the television show). That show is remembered fondly for its bizarre and oddly endearing take on language and has become a signature of Joss Whedon's work. People love him for his dialogue...and for some reason hate on Diablo Cody for doing the exact same thing. It's campy, cheesy, funny, not meant to be exactly true to real teenage life but to the universe the dialogue inhabits.
But that is just my opinion. Feel free to chuck assorted rotten vegetables at me.
@Cerridwen: No, I'm with you. Whedonspeak has a lot of words with unnecessary y's at the end, self-conscious wit, and turns of phrase that aren't precisely "real". But that's the point. It's the Whedonverse. Every writer is, in essence, trying to create a "world" in their story. Even if that story exists in the "real" world in some way. They're still setting a tone, defining characters and plot, etc. I mean, movies have a 2 act structure...but it's not like it's the 3 acts of life. So they are, by definition, never completely realistic.
@Cerridwen: " People love him for his dialogue...and for some reason hate on Diablo Cody for doing the exact same thing"
No veggie-chucking necessary, I don't think. This is the same universe that has decided, cf. Marcus Buckingham and La Dowd, that women are unhappy because of feminism.
@Cerridwen: I was just ruminating on this exact thought the other day! Joss haters are few and far between and Cody definitely has that same vibe to her writing. And, I'm sorry, but I work with teenagers and they are incredibly random and weird with their inside jokes and repetitive phrases. Even high school for me was full of stupid banter that would have been unrecognizable outside of a certain group of friends.
@Cerridwen: I don't know. I mean I'm not terribly familiar with the Whedonverse but from what I've seen of his work, there's snark and slang but it's not as heavy and conspicuous as Cody's writing. Honestly, before Juno got good there was about 15 minutes of absolutely excruciating and laborious dialogue. The Rainn Wilson exchange at the beginning ("home-skillet" and all that) is often held up as emblematic of "Cody-ism", and while I don't think it's exactly fair to use it as an example of her characterization (which is good in Juno despite much of the dialogue) by itself it really is some truly god-awful writing.
I think Whedon has an advantage in this comparison because of his chosen medium. Whedon's a TV guy by and large, Cody's got her movie thing. She's got a show on Showtime I think, The United States of Tara, and she's listed as a writer on 12 of the episodes aired so far, but as far as I know it hasn't caught on very much in the nerdosphere. Which doesn't mean that it's bad. That's just the kind of hype Whedon gets. And I think Whedon's a great world-builder, if not a great writer. He's got a certain feminist streak to his shows and he's a feminist (pro-feminist?) as a public figure but more than that his shows are nerdy. Cody is feminist, but she's not nerdy. She's hip. So I don't think she'll be getting much cult fanfare whether her writing is good or not.
I only kept up with USoT for the first few episodes and I didn't find it very compelling, but it very well could be a slow burner (Whedon's Dollhouse certainly wasn't that awesome for the first few weeks of its run, by all accounts). I think I also took issue with what I perceived as continued hollywoodification of mental illness. Go figure. Maybe it'll get more exposure now that Toni Collette's got an Emmy for it.
As for Jennifer's Body, from the sound of it the characterization is left by the wayside to better convey the irrational nature of female friendship? Not being female I guess that sort of prevents me from enjoying the movie as it's meant to be.
@John Thompson: It depends on who you talk to, though. Detractors of anything will tell you how "bad" it is for all the reasons other people like it. Whedon has stylized dialog a lot of people like. And other people call it unrealistic and heavy-handed. I personally like it.
Actually, Cody is VERY nerdy. If you read/hear any of her interviews she's a big time nerd/geek. She's incredibly articulate and self-aware, a major horror geek, and Juno was actually a pretty nerdy film when looked at a certain way. I think that the fact that it was written by a woman about a female character is partly why it infuriates so many people, in particular some male nerds. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "No girls are into horror/punk." Which is ridiculous, but a sentiment I hear often.
United States of Tara is not a genre show like Buffy or Firefly or even Dollhouse, so, no, it's not going to get to the nerdosphere the same way. But that's actually largely irrelevant. It's on Showtime, not one of the regular networks, so the audience is completely different. And it's ratings were quite high for that audience. It has nothing to do with the dialog appealing to nerds.
As for Jennifer's Body, no. You might want to re-read Dodai's post. It doesn't leave characterization at the wayside and it's not about the "irrational nature of female friendship". It's about a particular kind of obsessive relationship taken to an extreme from a female perspective, with established horror tropes.
My husband saw the movie and was able to enjoy the movie for exactly what it was. Stories about women that are from their perspective as characters, or creators, do not preclude men from either "getting" them or relating to them. Provided they actually attempt to.
Am I the only one who hated Juno on grouns not-pertaining to the Codyisms? It was, I thought, cloying, uninspired dreck, which would be fine, if every damn character wasn't so very unlikeable.
Maybe I'm bitter, since for about a year after its release, people at work/on the streets would stop me and say, "You know who you remind me of? Did you ever see that movie Juno?" Great. So I remind people of an obnoxious jerk of a teenager. Whee.
But, that said, I'll still go see Jennifer's Body. I resent the implication that it's anywhere near Heathers, The Breakfast Club or Clueless though. As if!
@likepenguins: i had issues with juno because i have issues with movies about teen pregnancy. it is not as indie or glamorous as that movie made seem, at least to me. i'm sure lots of people disagree with me there.
@elliotellsworth: No, I mean, that's true. But it's a teen comedy so it's not going to be a realistic look at teen pregnancy. I get that we need to show that more, but it seems unrealistic to me to expect that from Juno. It's like expecting The Breakfast Club to be a realistic portrayal of drug addiction because there's a pot scene, or Heathers to be a realistic depiction of teen suicide. That's just not the format for it.
@likepenguins: Yeah, but what I mean is, lots of people saw it as "glamorizing" it because they missed the point/irony. And regardless, that's not what Heathers is really about anyway. :}
09/22/09
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Pleasantly surprised by MFox. She really seems to have a feel for Cody's very distinctive speech patterns, and some of her lines I literally LOLed at.
Extra points for a normal portrayal of teen sexuality without the idea that it makes you slutty or bad or impure. (The Chip/Needy sex scene is win--very real and sweet and accurate. I think I even had the exact same bra as Needy. Now that's detail-oriented for you.)
Extra extra points for Beaver Casablancas in eyeliner.
09/21/09
She gets flogged because her Cody-isms are so far out there that the average person CAN'T figure them out.
"He's so salty. . . " And Amanda Seyfried's character had to explain that to her boyfriend and the audience.
When you have to explain your lingo in the screenplay, you're trying too hard. And it's the trying too hard that's irritating.
With that said, I LOVED the movie. I thought it was a smart/different kind of horror flick. And as much as I love horror films, I didn't see the explanation for why/what Jennifer killed, is and that rates high on my list of horror films.
09/21/09
The "He's so salty..." comment was meant to indicate to the audience that Needy "gets" Jennifer when no one else does, complete with understanding her Jenniferisms. It's a character moment, not a trying too hard moment.
But, I'm glad you liked it.
09/21/09
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Lost Boys is a great film, one of the best vampire movies, still.
So, I'm not so much comparing them like they're the exact movie. Just suggesting that, yes, in terms of tone, they are similar. I'd say that's also true of Slither and a bunch of other movies, like Ginger Snaps.
09/21/09
You so got hearted for mentioning Ginger Snaps.
It's on my annual list of October movies for getting into the Halloween mood.
09/21/09
My boyfriend and I were enjoying the movie when, ten minutes into it, a woman (who appeared to be about 60) walked in with her cane and a little girl who could not have been more than 6 years old. I guess it was her grandchild. They sat down in the same row as us, 3 or 4 seats away.
About 45 minutes into the movie, the woman fell asleep and half of the fucking theater could hear her snoring. Beyond that, the little girl (whose feet did not touch the ground) alternated between staring at the scary stuff happening on screen with her mouth hanging open and poking her (presumed) grandma saying things like "I'm scared" and "I wanna leave." These proclamations did not wake up her caretaker except for once, when the girl said "I don't wanna watch this movie" and the woman responded "It's the movie I wanna watch."
Finally, after she snored through the sexytime kissing scene (which was the quietest part of the movie, so everyone heard and was turning to see where the sound came from), my boyfriend got up and told an usher. The usher came in and woke the woman up. Rather than leaving, the woman got up (leaving the small child there) and came back with a soda. They stayed until the end.
I was fucking incensed. It was the single worst display of parenting I have ever seen first hand, I think.
09/21/09
09/21/09
Imagine what she is going to have say at Storytime in class on Monday!
classmate ask, "What's a wettie?"
09/21/09
i know it's not fair, but part of having kids is not always getting to see the movie you want to see when you want to see it. and maybe i feel this way because my mom was very strict about what i was and was not allowed to watch until i was in high school pretty much. ugh.
[/rant]
09/21/09
One, it's just inappropriate to bring a small child to movies like this. Two, it's rude to bring a child to a movie when that child will disrupt it for everyone else. I don't bring my baby to movies because that would be idiotic.
09/21/09
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But yeah, kids and horror = not a good idea.
09/21/09
My favorite part? The payoff during the ending credits. That part was pretty fucking awesome.
09/21/09
I wasn't super interested in this movie, but I HATE the kind of dismissal it's getting, and hate even more the armchair feminism critiques taking place surrounding it. I'll go see it (and maybe hate it) just to show my support, though.
09/22/09
09/21/09
although, what bothered me about my movie watching experience was that my brother and i were the only ones laughing. say what you want, but that movie was legit funny and kind of silly and i think people were taking it way too seriously. because come on, jk simmons with a hook for a hand, how can you not laugh at that.
also! and this bothered me the most. some people in the theater actually said "ew" when needy and jennifer kissed. i don't know if it's because i live in the conservative wasteland of central california or if people hate megan fox that much. mostly i just thought it was inappropriate and actually kind of hateful.
09/21/09
09/21/09
i went to go see it at the grove in l.a.
09/21/09
09/21/09
And just to be more relevant, yeah, I heard something similar from a few guys in the audience. I think they felt left out. Something similar happened when I saw Superbad, two girls had a FIT about the scene towards the end where they hugged. And that was in NYC.
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Pillowcase. :-)
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:)
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Personally, I though there were some really interesting feminist takes on the genre/tropes.
09/21/09
Adam Brody was really very good in his comedic timing. I actually laughed out loud a few times.
09/21/09
But that is just my opinion. Feel free to chuck assorted rotten vegetables at me.
09/21/09
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09/21/09
No veggie-chucking necessary, I don't think. This is the same universe that has decided, cf. Marcus Buckingham and La Dowd, that women are unhappy because of feminism.
09/21/09
09/21/09
I think Whedon has an advantage in this comparison because of his chosen medium. Whedon's a TV guy by and large, Cody's got her movie thing. She's got a show on Showtime I think, The United States of Tara, and she's listed as a writer on 12 of the episodes aired so far, but as far as I know it hasn't caught on very much in the nerdosphere. Which doesn't mean that it's bad. That's just the kind of hype Whedon gets. And I think Whedon's a great world-builder, if not a great writer. He's got a certain feminist streak to his shows and he's a feminist (pro-feminist?) as a public figure but more than that his shows are nerdy. Cody is feminist, but she's not nerdy. She's hip. So I don't think she'll be getting much cult fanfare whether her writing is good or not.
I only kept up with USoT for the first few episodes and I didn't find it very compelling, but it very well could be a slow burner (Whedon's Dollhouse certainly wasn't that awesome for the first few weeks of its run, by all accounts). I think I also took issue with what I perceived as continued hollywoodification of mental illness. Go figure. Maybe it'll get more exposure now that Toni Collette's got an Emmy for it.
As for Jennifer's Body, from the sound of it the characterization is left by the wayside to better convey the irrational nature of female friendship? Not being female I guess that sort of prevents me from enjoying the movie as it's meant to be.
09/21/09
Actually, Cody is VERY nerdy. If you read/hear any of her interviews she's a big time nerd/geek. She's incredibly articulate and self-aware, a major horror geek, and Juno was actually a pretty nerdy film when looked at a certain way. I think that the fact that it was written by a woman about a female character is partly why it infuriates so many people, in particular some male nerds. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "No girls are into horror/punk." Which is ridiculous, but a sentiment I hear often.
United States of Tara is not a genre show like Buffy or Firefly or even Dollhouse, so, no, it's not going to get to the nerdosphere the same way. But that's actually largely irrelevant. It's on Showtime, not one of the regular networks, so the audience is completely different. And it's ratings were quite high for that audience. It has nothing to do with the dialog appealing to nerds.
As for Jennifer's Body, no. You might want to re-read Dodai's post. It doesn't leave characterization at the wayside and it's not about the "irrational nature of female friendship". It's about a particular kind of obsessive relationship taken to an extreme from a female perspective, with established horror tropes.
My husband saw the movie and was able to enjoy the movie for exactly what it was. Stories about women that are from their perspective as characters, or creators, do not preclude men from either "getting" them or relating to them. Provided they actually attempt to.
09/21/09
Maybe I'm bitter, since for about a year after its release, people at work/on the streets would stop me and say, "You know who you remind me of? Did you ever see that movie Juno?" Great. So I remind people of an obnoxious jerk of a teenager. Whee.
But, that said, I'll still go see Jennifer's Body. I resent the implication that it's anywhere near Heathers, The Breakfast Club or Clueless though. As if!
09/21/09
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Nah, I'm sure it's fine, but I will be shocked if it's to Heathers level. I'll go in with an open mind, though.
09/21/09
(don't do it!)
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