So what exactly would this new, "viable" GOP include that would distinguish them from the Democrats? Less regulation? The expectation that the free market should be the primary source for sorting out healthcare, our issues with the environment and sustainability , etc.? (Yeah, I think that actually IS sort of what the Democrats think too.)
I think the both parties have moved to the right, and it's notable in the inability or unwillingness to handle the actors that helped usher in this "new depression"....the people who helped burn everything down but are still making off like bandits with their billion-dollar bonuses and astronomical salaries.
Right now it's the dominance of the Christian Right and meta-assholes like Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh being their unofficial mouthpieces.
Seriously--I would like to know what would make the parties "viable" but also different, because I think today's Democrats are about as beholden to corporate America ("fiscally conservative"), religious hate-mongerers, and the same lobbies we've always been (everything from agriculture to the militarization to oil) as this country can stand.
Maybe they'd seem less toothless if the Republicans grew up and made the concept of "bipartisan progress" an actual possibility, but my point is, the current "left" is pretty far to the right, and I don't know how the revamped "right" could distinguish themselves without being as bad as the contemporary GOP.
"I strongly believe that we need at least two viable political parties to have a constructive dialogue about governance in this country"
THIS is why the debate over health care really drives me nuts right now. It would be great to have an actual dialogue about what people do and do not want from this, and to have more fiscally-minded Congresspeople give some viable options for how to deal with the cost (other than taxing health care, which doesn't appeal to anyone). Instead of people throwing out blatant lies about it and saying "no" to any and every proposal Democrats come up with. This is a really really really important issue, and the health of our country depends on it. And it's turning into something more ridiculous than an SNL skit.
PLEASE, Republican party. Logic is not the enemy, and I am hard-pressed to believe that your precious Ronald Reagan would genuinely approve of your behavior. Or the founders of this country.
This is not a joke! It's real life.
how long before we can finally give up the pretense that the republican party has anything to do with "small government & fiscal responsibility?" just because they keep saying it, doesn't make it true. let's call it what it is, a myth.
contrary to the talking point, data shows that republican administrations have been just as bad if not worse when it comes to growing the size of government, and have engaged in plenty of wasteful spending; even republican hero st. reagan. to the GOP, fiscal responsibility has basically always stood for not spending money on things that benefit groups of people they don't like.
I am not a fan of Meghan McCain; I think she only identifies as a Republican b/c dear old dad is Republican. But anyone who will say publicly that Michelle Malkin is batshit and needs to shut it gets a pass from me.
@willwriteforfood: I disagree with you. I think Meghan has thought long and hard about this, and she has decided that being a fiscal conservative is most important to her than being a social liberal. My sister, who is about her age, feels the same.
While I feel quite differently for myself, I think she is fully aware of where she stands politically and quite comfortable with it, if not with those standing next to her.
@TheGuvnah: I would guess because her shtick is discussing the social failings of the Republican party. I doubt she feels it necessary to discuss the only part of the party she actually identifies with, because she's made it her platform to attempt to "reform" the party, and she has no wish to "reform" the economic platforms.
my dream is that the republican party dissipates, and the democratic party splits into a centrist and a progressive wing, respectively. it's my happy thought.
here's a crazy thought - Meghan Mccain is young enough to start building up a new party, gain traction, and run as it's first candidate for president in 20 years. It would take a loooong time for it to get things rolling, but it's worth trying. Repubs have gone batshit.
Now, I wouldn't be supporting this hypothetical party because judging from Mccain's conservative persuasion, it would be a moderate party and I personally favor near-socialist politics (hint, hint - check out ma name!), but it would start the ball rolling on the American political spectrum shifting to the left, which I think would be better for everyone.
@arodriguez.romero: Yet, she would have time to get seasoning, build support, and establish what her ideas are. Right now, perhaps it's enough that she separates herself from the current Republicans (since that's the party of her father) and try to establish her own identity.
@NefariousNewt: again, mebbe. I'm not interested in giving her a platform based solely on family connections, tho. That didn't work out so great last time.
It's a bigger question, really. Who on the right, if anybody, has had an original thought lately?
We all say (me included) that we want an opposition party that's closer to a classical liberal/libertarian stripe, but are we really going to be thankful if it shows up and has some success? I sorta want to call bullshit on us/me, but for fear of hurting our/my feelings I shall refrain from lighing into us/myself.
@BearDownCBears: I know. I have become particularly disgusted with libertarians as of late. Still touting an unregulated wall street in the midst of the chaos. Wake up bozos.
Meghan McCain has found her angle and she is working it just the same way Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter work their angles.
My fear is that all the Republican party is dying rhetoric will lead to Democrats underestimating the Republican party at their own peril. They may not be a viable party 50 years down the road if they continue down this path but they are a viable party today and are a viable party in 3 years. 57% of white men and 53% of white women voted for McCain. There are significant portions of people that identify with this party. Obama seems to be steadily losing independents are hot button issues.
I haven't been too impressed with Meghan McCain, and she seems to get a lot of play for speaking the obvious (Coulter is bad? Duh). I've seen her on shows bascially saying, "Well, I don't know too much about policy/economics/solutions" so I ask why should I care what she thinks?
Paul Begala gave her a nice smack down, and her rebuttal was that she was young and blonde? Oh honey, go away.
@greengrey: agreed. i'm down with her calling out ann coulter and michelle malkin, but really, anyone with half a brain or half a conscience could and should do the same thing. any time meghan mccain is interviewed and actually asked about policy, she comes off as vapid and uninformed. she's a pundit, not someone who should be looked at as a good candidate to start a new political party.
@southernbitch: I think the problem is that people are reading too much into it. I don't think her intended purpose, right now, is to run for office. I think she's trying to get out from the shadow of her father and his party, try to appeal to a younger generation, and build herself up slowly. Perhaps she's tactically disarming people with the "I'm young and blonde" shtick, in the hopes that people won't take her seriously, so she can build up her political power without too much overt scrutiny.
I'm not sure how the Republicans can save their party from the far right. Since Lee Atwater they've made this bed. Now they have to sleep in it as the country become more diverse.
When Rudy Giuliani a former mayor of NYC is screaming at the GOP convention about elitists, there's a problem.
When a woman who doesn't know basic sentence structure thinks she's more qualified to run for public office than a former Consitutional law professor from on of the top law schools in the country, there's a problem.
When the GOP convention floor looked like a meeting of the John Birch society circa 1952 there's a problem.
Good luck Meghan. I think your party left you.
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Edited by nyc-caribbean-ragazza at 08/11/09 10:42 AM
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"I strongly believe that we need at least two viable political parties to have a constructive dialogue about governance in this country, and that has not been the case for a very long time."
Word. Even the good can become bad. Power corrupts. See Tony Blair.
@Diziet_Sma: See, I'm confused. Does Latoya mean we haven't had two viable political parties in a very long time or we haven't had constructive dialogue in a long time?
Because discounting the Republican party as viable seems odd to me considering they were in power in the White House until 6 months ago and in Congress until what, 06?
@TheGuvnah: I think she means that our whole system, and both parties, are so problematic that it's been difficult to get anything done/have a meaningful discussion in a long time. When Bush was in office, Dems were either scrambling to to capitulate, or struggling to call it out.
Now the Conservatives are trying to block anything Obama attempts to do, no matter how beneficial.
Just because one or the other is in power doesn't mean they're really healthy in terms of structure. Our political system is so rife with either infighting or partisan politics it's difficult to get anything that might actually improve things done. To me, that means they're not "viable" even if they're in power.
It's an interesting read but I found Olympia Snowe's op-ed in the Times after Specter changed parties to be much, much more telling. The running of specific type of ultra conservative is a tactic to double down; the idea is that if they can win and get elected, they're not going to have to compromise.
Because right now, the reason there isn't much room for moderate conservatives is the same reason why getting Democrats to accomplish anything is like herding cats. A big tent means conflicting ideas, compromise, etc. And that's not something Republicans do often. They run and win and do whatever they want until people get sick of the unilateral treatment and vote them out. (See: 1994; 2002 congressional classes).
@NefariousNewt: I dunno. In a way, it might work for them because they do win elections and when they win, they basically govern unilaterally from the far, far right. Those people aren't giving up their power that easily.
Meghan McCain is a breath of fresh, more rational air on the right. But, then again, I remember admiring her father about nine years ago. Then, he started pandering and lost what "maverickness" he had. So, I guess I am wary.
I've never heard M. McCain give a good reason why SHE herself should stay as a Republican other than "family connections".
If that's it, then that's not good enough.
@AthertonMerriweather: Independents have no clout, and they don't win elections. I generally identify myself as an independent, but when it's election season, I've got to vote for someone, even though there's never a candidate who represents all my views. Lots of people force themselves to allign with one party or another, not because the party really represents their views, but because it's closer than the other one.
I welcome megan to stay in the GOP. We're always going to have at least two parties.The country benefits by having different views and philosophies represented. I'd rather the GOP have at least a small rational core than be run only by mouth breathing paranoid racists.
08/11/09
I think the both parties have moved to the right, and it's notable in the inability or unwillingness to handle the actors that helped usher in this "new depression"....the people who helped burn everything down but are still making off like bandits with their billion-dollar bonuses and astronomical salaries.
Right now it's the dominance of the Christian Right and meta-assholes like Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh being their unofficial mouthpieces.
Seriously--I would like to know what would make the parties "viable" but also different, because I think today's Democrats are about as beholden to corporate America ("fiscally conservative"), religious hate-mongerers, and the same lobbies we've always been (everything from agriculture to the militarization to oil) as this country can stand.
Maybe they'd seem less toothless if the Republicans grew up and made the concept of "bipartisan progress" an actual possibility, but my point is, the current "left" is pretty far to the right, and I don't know how the revamped "right" could distinguish themselves without being as bad as the contemporary GOP.
08/11/09
THIS is why the debate over health care really drives me nuts right now. It would be great to have an actual dialogue about what people do and do not want from this, and to have more fiscally-minded Congresspeople give some viable options for how to deal with the cost (other than taxing health care, which doesn't appeal to anyone). Instead of people throwing out blatant lies about it and saying "no" to any and every proposal Democrats come up with. This is a really really really important issue, and the health of our country depends on it. And it's turning into something more ridiculous than an SNL skit.
PLEASE, Republican party. Logic is not the enemy, and I am hard-pressed to believe that your precious Ronald Reagan would genuinely approve of your behavior. Or the founders of this country.
This is not a joke! It's real life.
08/11/09
contrary to the talking point, data shows that republican administrations have been just as bad if not worse when it comes to growing the size of government, and have engaged in plenty of wasteful spending; even republican hero st. reagan. to the GOP, fiscal responsibility has basically always stood for not spending money on things that benefit groups of people they don't like.
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While I feel quite differently for myself, I think she is fully aware of where she stands politically and quite comfortable with it, if not with those standing next to her.
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Now, I wouldn't be supporting this hypothetical party because judging from Mccain's conservative persuasion, it would be a moderate party and I personally favor near-socialist politics (hint, hint - check out ma name!), but it would start the ball rolling on the American political spectrum shifting to the left, which I think would be better for everyone.
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It's a bigger question, really. Who on the right, if anybody, has had an original thought lately?
08/11/09
What?
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08/11/09
My fear is that all the Republican party is dying rhetoric will lead to Democrats underestimating the Republican party at their own peril. They may not be a viable party 50 years down the road if they continue down this path but they are a viable party today and are a viable party in 3 years. 57% of white men and 53% of white women voted for McCain. There are significant portions of people that identify with this party. Obama seems to be steadily losing independents are hot button issues.
08/11/09
Paul Begala gave her a nice smack down, and her rebuttal was that she was young and blonde? Oh honey, go away.
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When Rudy Giuliani a former mayor of NYC is screaming at the GOP convention about elitists, there's a problem.
When a woman who doesn't know basic sentence structure thinks she's more qualified to run for public office than a former Consitutional law professor from on of the top law schools in the country, there's a problem.
When the GOP convention floor looked like a meeting of the John Birch society circa 1952 there's a problem.
Good luck Meghan. I think your party left you.
08/11/09
Word. Even the good can become bad. Power corrupts. See Tony Blair.
08/11/09
Because discounting the Republican party as viable seems odd to me considering they were in power in the White House until 6 months ago and in Congress until what, 06?
08/11/09
08/11/09
Now the Conservatives are trying to block anything Obama attempts to do, no matter how beneficial.
Just because one or the other is in power doesn't mean they're really healthy in terms of structure. Our political system is so rife with either infighting or partisan politics it's difficult to get anything that might actually improve things done. To me, that means they're not "viable" even if they're in power.
08/11/09
Because right now, the reason there isn't much room for moderate conservatives is the same reason why getting Democrats to accomplish anything is like herding cats. A big tent means conflicting ideas, compromise, etc. And that's not something Republicans do often. They run and win and do whatever they want until people get sick of the unilateral treatment and vote them out. (See: 1994; 2002 congressional classes).
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If that's it, then that's not good enough.
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08/11/09
I welcome megan to stay in the GOP. We're always going to have at least two parties.The country benefits by having different views and philosophies represented. I'd rather the GOP have at least a small rational core than be run only by mouth breathing paranoid racists.