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New York, 11:12 AM
Sun Nov 22
23 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of BearDownCBears BearDownCBears
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    Well, if congress doesn't phase out the employer tax benefit for health care the Dems better promise to tackle the delivery system in another bill, because costs are gonna keep rising. All of CWA's ideas are revenue-raisers, but they don't bend the cost curve. You have to keep tax revenues ahead of the cost curve, and if costs keep rising, well, do the math.
     Reply
    BearDownCBears was starred BearDownCBears was unstarred
    Image of maude_flanders maude_flanders
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    The bishops were instrumental in getting tough anti-abortion language adopted by the House, forcing Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., to accept restrictions that outraged liberals as the price for passing the Democratic health care bill. [...]"

    Unless we can tax your ass and treat you like another fucking focus group, PAC, lobbying group, etc. (we should--they've made it clear who they support clear, come hell, highwater, or warmongering, social-service cutting Republicans), GO AWAY.

    For the record, I don't give a shit what the church thinks about issues that put them in line with the very liberal, either. Their organization is based on an unprovable, malleable story and is a distraction from rational policymaking. I don't care if their ARE priests or nuns who are consistently "pro-life" and against choice AND the death penalty, I don't fucking religious doctrine swaying policy, period.

    This stuff makes me livid. How is there even an entryway for their influence? I don't care if anti-choice Democrats and Republicans agree with them, how are they not sent reeling away from the table of discussion? Aren't there some rules they're breaking here, couldn't the legislators that oppose this amendment tell them (and anyone benefiting from their funding or talking points) where to shove it?
     Reply
    maude_flanders was starred maude_flanders was unstarred
    Image of bluetrain84 bluetrain84
    11/20/09

    @maude_flanders: I know, I used to think there was a separation of church and state here in the ol' US of A, but it seems like that chasm has narrowed to a slit. Hell, why don't we just have the leaders of each major religious group in the US sit down at a round table and create some policies?
     Reply
    bluetrain84 was starred bluetrain84 was unstarred
    Image of TurtleWexlerKickedMe TurtleWexlerKickedMe
    11/20/09

    @maude_flanders: It's MIND-BOGGLING. I could literally not care less what Catholic priests think about US legislation. And yet, they somehow have a say? I mean, not to get all Seth Myers, but Really? REALLY?

    Guess what, people who believe in religion: YOU DON'T GET A SAY IN MY LEGISLATION. And all you people (yes, on Jezebel) who identify yourselves with any of the religions who are trying to sway this bill yet try to claim that you are against it, maybe now's the time to reconsider your alignment, no?
     Reply
    TurtleWexlerKickedMe was starred TurtleWexlerKickedMe was unstarred
    Image of msridiculous447 msridiculous447
    11/20/09

    @TurtleWexlerKickedMe: aligning yourself with a religion doesn't mean you believe in the actions of every other person of the same faith. Just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I believe in everything that the church/"religious authorities" say.
     Reply
    TurtleWexlerKickedMe promoted this comment msridiculous447 was starred msridiculous447 was unstarred
    Image of TurtleWexlerKickedMe TurtleWexlerKickedMe
    11/20/09

    @msridiculous447: If you don't believe in your church's doctrine, why be a member of that church? I ask that earnestly. We've had this discussion on here before (in the early days of Jez, there was a particularly great one, with many sides of the argument representing) and it's still unclear. Why be a member of something if it actively campaigns and lobbies for things you disagree with?
     Reply
    TurtleWexlerKickedMe was starred TurtleWexlerKickedMe was unstarred
    Image of maude_flanders maude_flanders
    11/21/09

    @TurtleWexlerKickedMe: That's what I initially asked myself, and deleted it. I can think of emotional reasons why, but--no offense to those who identify as Catholics here--those reasons are stupid to me. I can only speak for myself, but religion was never comforting, enlightening, or rewarding enough to stay when, at BEST, my priorities could be considered party of my flawed, sinful nature, a fluke to be resolved.

    I know what's important to me. I can negotiate morality and the concepts of empathy, personal accountability, and human dignity without another f*cking Gospel that ends with "wailing and gnashing of teeth," another story that seems even more meaningless and irrelevant the third, fourth, fiftieth time I hear it (my respect for some of the priests at my family parish notwithstanding).

    The Church opposes policies that would help women and children in desperately poor countries (and here, of course, where we seem both on the cusp of sensible progress and, and then, marching backwards with our eyes wide open) where childbirth is a matter of life or death and family size--in addition to corruption, policies of richer nations, environmental stress, etc.---IS relevant to collective suffering. I think that's fucking criminal--wielding an unknowable God, and the concept of an afterlife, over human progress.

    The Church's moral legitimacy as an institution is undermined by the bishops' abuse of power...settling in court, then shuffling abusive priests from parish to parish so they could molest more children. That's unspeakable for a secular, "worldly," predictably flawed seat of power....but from an institution that purportedly calls faithful and non-believers alike to a less violent, more generous, more enlightened version of humanity? An institution that demands special respect because it exists as a beacon and a respite from an immoral world?

    The most distasteful thing is that this isn't solely about religious doctrine. I'm guessing half the people who identify as "Christian" in this country and root for dicks like Stupak couldn't give you three Commandments or describe one Gospel that isn't typically trotted out in popular culture. It seems we as a "Christian" nation are Christian to the extent that it allows voters--and worse, policymakers--to be morally or intellectually unaccountable when convenient. It provides a legitimate excuse where others--loyalty to a corporate interest, indefensible busybody chauvinism, whatever--would fall flat, or be more easily unearthed.

    I wish I could put the story of Mike Huckabee, Wayne DuMond, and his victims on billboards...that typifies the grotesque, unapologetic arrogance and complacency that religion provides.

    Is it a source, or just one mask for assholery that might emerge in another form in the absence of organized religion? I don't know. And I don't care.

    I feel so helpless, and so angry. I am am sputtering with rage. Why, why can't the Democrats tell them what we've said here? Doctrine should NOT be a primary source informing policy!! And if this asshole says it isn't, how else can he defend it? Why the FUCK aren't people tearing down his stupid arguments? My tax dollars paid for a three trillion dollar war that sure as fuck offends my conscience, and it will for the next couple of decades while this generation keeps footing the bill. I pay for initiatives spearheaded by religious charities (if not churches themselves).

    So what is Stupak's excuse? What other defense is there? You don't like abortion? Don't get one! We already have the Hyde Amendment! If it's no more invasive, why do we need something new?

    How can anyone oppose family planning and sex ed unless you support fattening the budgets for social services, TANF, Medicaid, HeadStart, or anything else that children poor to parents who can't afford them, never wanted them, don't know how to care for them, CAN'T care for them because they're on drugs?

    What's the matter, what the fuck is wrong with the media that they aren't eviscerating these pieces of shit for weak reasoning or bald-faced lies?!!

    #tips
     Reply
    maude_flanders was starred maude_flanders was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    What has become clear to me over the last 10 months or so is that part of the problem is that there are no strong Democrat leaders in either house. I was thinking about it the other night and would this Democrat controlled congress have been able to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964? I really don't think so. We need ball breaking leaders to go in there and be like, if you don't vote for this the party will screw you nine ways from Sunday for the rest of your career. It sounds dirty but I'm convinced that that's how you get shit done in Congress.
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of 7states 7states
    11/20/09

    @bluebears: I can't agree more. The fact that Joe Lieberman hasn't been stripped of his chairmanship says it all about the balls of the Democratic Party right now.
     Reply
    bluebears promoted this comment 7states was starred 7states was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    11/20/09

    @7states: I know. What the hell is it gonna take? Does he have to actually fellate John McCain on the floor of the senate?
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of BetteD BetteD
    11/20/09

    @bluebears: While I'm not appreciating the mental image, I must commend you for your use of "fellate" as a verb. :)
     Reply
    BetteD was starred BetteD was unstarred
    Image of Lymed Lymed
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    Of course they'll be partying while I'm on a plane and can't join them.
     Reply
    Lymed was starred Lymed was unstarred
    Image of morninggloria morninggloria
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    Judging by the amount of time and energy that the Church puts into various stupid issues, you'd swear that the New Testament was 75% about zygotes, 15% about how being gay is totally sinny, 10% about how to deny allegations of pedophilia, and 5% about loving each other and service and stuff.

    What the Church has chosen to do with its massive global influence is so, so disappointing.
     Reply
    morninggloria was starred morninggloria was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    11/20/09

    @morninggloria: I'm totally stealing "sinny"
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of Lymed Lymed
    11/20/09

    @morninggloria: Which issue wrote over social justice?
     Reply
    Lymed was starred Lymed was unstarred
    Image of morninggloria morninggloria
    11/20/09

    @Lymed: That fits in the 5% that's about loving each other. "And stuff."
     Reply
    morninggloria was starred morninggloria was unstarred
    Image of NefariousNewt NefariousNewt
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    How about we tax 'Cadillac Religions,' since they seem to want to mix it up in politics, despite the restriction placed on the Federal government by the First Amendment. We can start with the Roman Catholic Church... oh, wait... they're broke, from having to pay out for all those priests who molested boys.
     Reply
    NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred
    Image of Lymed Lymed
    11/20/09

    @NefariousNewt: The Church of Scientology has money...
     Reply
    Lymed was starred Lymed was unstarred
    Image of morninggloria morninggloria
    11/20/09

    @NefariousNewt: Not too broke to afford red Prada loafers for the Pope!
     Reply
    morninggloria was starred morninggloria was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    Call me a pessimest, I am, but at this point I have no hope whatsoever for any meaningful reform passing both houses and honestly if reform comes with the price of stripping reproductive rights away from women then I frankly prefer it dies.
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of lizdexia lizdexia
    11/20/09

    @bluebears: I vote we kill it and start over. Even without the reproductive restrictions, the bill pretty much sucks.
     Reply
    bluebears promoted this comment lizdexia was starred lizdexia was unstarred
    Image of whynotshesaid whynotshesaid
    11/20/09

    @bluebears: I'm with you. I know we are in serious need of real reform, but this half-ass bullshit ain't it.

    I mean, under the proposed plans, we are not only facing the loss of access to reproductive health care, but I am also facing the degradation of my kick-ass health insurance. And at what cost? So the Democrats could say they tackled health care reform when 2010 rolls around, as if we weren't all there to see what a clusterfuck it's been?

    I have a headache. Is it too early to drink?
     Reply
    whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    11/20/09

    @lizdexia: unfortunately we'd be starting over with the same group of assholes.

    @FrabjousDay: I'm so utterly disappointed by Congressional Democrats at this point.
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    11/20/09

    @whynotshesaid: I have been wanting to drink heavily since like Wednesday of this week.
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of Little Green Frog (Wise Latina) Little Green Frog (Wise Latina)
    11/20/09

    @bluebears: And no public option, and no concrete definition of "affordable", and the possibility of taxing insurance when it a part of you benefits package... I mean what's the point of this reform now, huh?
     Reply
    Little Green Frog (Wise Latina) was starred Little Green Frog (Wise Latina) was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    11/20/09

    @Little Green Frog (Wise Latina): at this point it's smoke and mirrors.
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of NefariousNewt NefariousNewt
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    When Catholic bishops grow wombs and can bear children, then I'll think about listening to them, not before.
     Reply
    NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred
    Image of BetteD BetteD
    11/20/09

    @NefariousNewt: Well, Sarah Palin has a womb, and instead of instilling her with respect and compassion, it has brought forth a legion of ill-named children. So.
     Reply
    BetteD was starred BetteD was unstarred
    Image of DutchessOfDork DutchessOfDork
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    Dear Bishops,
    You are not good Christians. You are so concerned with YOUR view of life that you are willing to not pass health care bills to help others. THATS NOT CHRISTIAN.

    Dear GOPers and Asshole Democrats,
    You are not good people. Your role is to go what your constituents want, not what you find morally abhorrent. You are not God , thats not your job. Your job is to do the best you can for your country. The people that need the abortions the most, are probably the ones that need their health care bill. Help them too.

    Not sincerly,
    Dutchess
     Reply
    DutchessOfDork was starred DutchessOfDork was unstarred
    Image of NefariousNewt NefariousNewt
    11/20/09

    @DutchessOfDork: *applauds*
     Reply
    NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred
    Image of Hooplehead Hooplehead
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    "Seeing that the last Saturday evening health care announcement brought us Stupak-Pitts, let's hope nothing new comes out of right field."

    Fixed that for you.
     Reply
    Hooplehead was starred Hooplehead was unstarred
    Image of cate3710 cate3710
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    "let's hope nothing new comes out of left field."

    I'm more worried about things coming out of right field. Ba-dum-ching.
     Reply
    cate3710 was starred cate3710 was unstarred
    Image of Hooplehead Hooplehead
    11/20/09

    @cate3710: Ha, I said the same thing before seeing your comment. Great minds and all.
     Reply
    Hooplehead was starred Hooplehead was unstarred
    Image of NefariousNewt NefariousNewt
    11/20/09

    @cate3710: I think something already came out of left field: Harry Reid growing some balls.
     Reply
    NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred
    Image of judgingamy judgingamy
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    I looked up hellacious in the dictionary and this is what I got:

    1. remarkable; horrifying
    2. wonderful; excellent

    WTF? Based on the context in the article, I guess it means remarkable. But still. How can one word mean so many drastically different things?
     Reply
    judgingamy was starred judgingamy was unstarred
    Image of NefariousNewt NefariousNewt
    11/20/09

    @judgingamy: Welcome to the English Language, Flummoxed Edition.
     Reply
    NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred
    Image of Zapatos Zapatos
    11/20/09

    @NefariousNewt: The one that always got me on the SAT was "flag", which means both to make something more noticeable...and to make something less noticeable. Not cool, medieval Englishmen.
     Reply
    Kivrin promoted this comment Zapatos was starred Zapatos was unstarred
    Image of Le Kangourou de Kataroo Le Kangourou de Kataroo
    11/20/09

    In reply to Congress, Catholics, Conservatives Gear Up for Saturday Night Showdown
    Thank you, Latoya, for breaking this down. There's just SO MUCH information out there, and the whole process has become completely disheartening since Stupak.
     Reply
    Le Kangourou de Kataroo was starred Le Kangourou de Kataroo was unstarred
    Image of BetteD BetteD
    11/20/09

    @Le Kangourou de Kataroo: I second that emotion.

    Mad props to Latoya for cutting through the bullshit and pandering to make this revolting cauldron of crap stew somewhat digestable and coherent.
     Reply
    BetteD was starred BetteD was unstarred
    Image of midwesternmom midwesternmom
    11/19/09

    In reply to The New, Looming Battle Over American Womens' Breast Health
    I will say to them what I said to my sister's lazy gyno, "If our aunts had waited til they were 40 for their first mammograms, they would have died of breast cancer. Oh yeah, they did and they died. So shut up and give her the damn test."
    Don't make me have to go back for every appointment until she's 50. I only have the one sister, and I am lucky to have such a sweet one. She, on the other hand, is happy that I am a loud bitch when it comes to our health.
     Reply
    midwesternmom was starred midwesternmom was unstarred
    Image of Rooo sez BISH PLZ Rooo sez BISH PLZ
    11/19/09

    @midwesternmom: Word. With Word sauce. And a side order of Word greens.
     Reply
    Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred Rooo sez BISH PLZ was unstarred
    Image of la.donna.pietra la.donna.pietra
    11/19/09

    @Rooo sez BISH PLZ: And a slice of Word pie for dessert.
     Reply
    la.donna.pietra was starred la.donna.pietra was unstarred
    Image of BetteD BetteD
    11/19/09

    @midwesternmom: You, mi'lady, are the SHIT. Be my sister?
     Reply
    BetteD was starred BetteD was unstarred
    Image of midwesternmom midwesternmom
    11/19/09

    @BetteD: Gladly. Thanks to breast cancer, I am down to a sister and a mom for close female relatives, and it is chipping away at my cousins. I am adamant that I NEED my sister to get old with me.
     Reply
    midwesternmom was starred midwesternmom was unstarred
    Image of badmutha badmutha
    11/19/09

    In reply to The New, Looming Battle Over American Womens' Breast Health
    I worked for a natl. cancer org, and I knew plenty of women who got cancer before 40, found lumps themselves, and others who found cancers through mammograms. What ever happened to the old adage "Better safe than sorry?" There are no "harms" to having a biopsy done or having regular mammograms.
     Reply
    badmutha was starred badmutha was unstarred
    Image of eedlebeedle eedlebeedle
    11/19/09

    @badmutha: All medical procedures, including biopsies and mammograms, have risks. This group's findings indicate that for a certain group, 40-49 with no increased risk of breast cancer due to genetic mutation or chest radiation, the risks outweigh the benefits.
    It's not as simple as "better safe than sorry;" more medicine isn't always better. I don't have the expertise to dig into their methodology completely, but they seem to have been pretty specific in their findings about who this applies to and who it doesn't.
     Reply
    thesciencegirl promoted this comment eedlebeedle was starred eedlebeedle was unstarred
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